Renting/leasing a shop

[Loganwayne]

So 4 of us are thinking about trying to find a place to rent/lease or rent to own for a shop. Ideally we would want some huge shop but since we are all working outside in the dirt. Each of us with somewhere with room for one project will do.
Does anyone else rent a shop space? Or have advice for places to look.

We had found a place, but it was 4wd only to get to it which wasn’t a problem but once they found out we wanted to work on stuff she said no it was for storage only.


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[UTfball68]

I think you’ll have difficulty finding a ready to run shop to lease/rent. Most the time if the owner is successful they’ll be using it for themselves...if they’re not, they’ll need to liquidate. If you’re just looking for empty space to put your tools and vehicles, I think you’ll have a super tough time finding anyone that’ll be comfortable you won’t be using it for business purposes, with the primary issues being zoning and liability. I was looking for the same 2-3 years ago, and the places that were big enough and were comfortable with their zoning/liability had about a 3 year wait list. By a complete stroke of luck, found my 30x40 posted on a local gas stations cork board, cost me less than 2 years of rent. Beyond that, I have had buddies buy a warehouse...but even at $6 sq/ft it can be pricey due to total square footage. I’ve also had buddies go in together and buy entire shops shutting down, but those are generally in the $100-300k range, and no idea what the financing looked like. Had I not found mine, I was seriously considering just buying 2-3 acres, laying a pad and having one of those $10-15k metal buildings put up. All in should be around $50k, spread across 4-5 guys, loan payments shouldn’t be that terrible in comparison to a rent payment.

 

[obullfish]

How big ya talking @Loganwayne ?

 

[Loganwayne]

I think you’ll have difficulty finding a ready to run shop to lease/rent. Most the time if the owner is successful they’ll be using it for themselves...if they’re not, they’ll need to liquidate. If you’re just looking for empty space to put your tools and vehicles, I think you’ll have a super tough time finding anyone that’ll be comfortable you won’t be using it for business purposes, with the primary issues being zoning and liability. I was looking for the same 2-3 years ago, and the places that were big enough and were comfortable with their zoning/liability had about a 3 year wait list. By a complete stroke of luck, found my 30x40 posted on a local gas stations cork board, cost me less than 2 years of rent. Beyond that, I have had buddies buy a warehouse...but even at $6 sq/ft it can be pricey due to total square footage. I’ve also had buddies go in together and buy entire shops shutting down, but those are generally in the $100-300k range, and no idea what the financing looked like. Had I not found mine, I was seriously considering just buying 2-3 acres, laying a pad and having one of those $10-15k metal buildings put up. All in should be around $50k, spread across 4-5 guys, loan payments shouldn’t be that terrible in comparison to a rent payment.

Basically what your saying is what we are running into. We just want an empty building.
We found one and it’s in a horrible place for anyone wanting to use it for a building or storage but she didn’t want us to work on anything there. I’m reaching out to someone I know that had a business in a building but I don’t think the business is still going and no one is using building. But we have also thought about finding land and building something.




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[Loganwayne]

How big ya talking @Loganwayne ?

Realistically enough room for 3-4 people to each have one project going and some storage. Outside storage would be fine. Obviously the bigger it is the more people would end up splitting it


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[UTfball68]

Realistically enough room for 3-4 people to each have one project going and some storage. Outside storage would be fine. Obviously the bigger it is the more people would end up splitting it


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I can tell you right now a 30x40 won’t be enough space for 4 projects (I have enough room for 2), tools and storage space...for that, I’d want at least a 60x120. Not sure what your budget is, but if rent prices are anything like they are near me, you’d probably be cheaper finding 10,000sq/ft of ‘warehouse’ and just outright buying it. And if that’s the case, I’d just google ‘commercial property’ for your area. One of you guys buy it and rent it to the other 3.

 

[1-tonmudder]

I wouldn't go in to an arrangement like that for any amount of money.Somebody will take more than their space,not have their part of the rent,light bill,ect.Somebody(ies) will do something to mess it all up and two (or more) of you will wind up rollin around in the yard tryin to settle it.Everybody will be take sides and friendships will end.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

I wouldn't go in to an arrangement like that for any amount of money.Somebody will take more than their space,not have their part of the rent,light bill,ect.Somebody(ies) will do something to mess it all up and two (or more) of you will wind up rollin around in the yard tryin to settle it.Everybody will be take sides and friendships will end.

I say go for it...do it legit and business like. Only way in or out is to buy sell like the real property it is, with first right to ownership going to the original share holders.

I wish folks would be willing to do this on property, let alone a wrenching place.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

Seriously how the hell do you think major corporations control so much market shares........I don't know the fancy words for it and mine may be made up. Call it conglomerate ownership or sumthin, smart business identities pool resources like this all the time. What keeps common people down is common folks to scared to act.....well uncommon.

 

[Loganwayne]

If it wasn’t with these people I wouldn’t consider it, that said yes it would be set up like a partnership business. If we rent or bought if one of us wanted out the others had first chance at it and if they didn’t want it they would have to approve the person coming in. We already talked about renting it as a LLC for insurance and protecting ourselves


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[Loganwayne]

I can tell you right now a 30x40 won’t be enough space for 4 projects (I have enough room for 2), tools and storage space...for that, I’d want at least a 60x120. Not sure what your budget is, but if rent prices are anything like they are near me, you’d probably be cheaper finding 10,000sq/ft of ‘warehouse’ and just outright buying it. And if that’s the case, I’d just google ‘commercial property’ for your area. One of you guys buy it and rent it to the other 3.

View attachment 278462

The biggest problem is there aren’t any commercial properties available, I’ve been looking on and off for a place for a while or the property that is for sale is stupid expensive on a sf price. The 10,000 sf warehouse is over 125 dollars a sf on the two I’ve found. That’s stupid expensive when I can get a new red iron for around 65-85 sf


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[1-tonmudder]

Seriously how the hell do you think major corporations control so much market shares........I don't know the fancy words for it and mine may be made up. Call it conglomerate ownership or sumthin, smart business identities pool resources like this all the time. What keeps common people down is common folks to scared to act.....well uncommon.

That’s the only way to do it IF you can get everybody on board.But I can hear it now somebody sayin “don’t you trust me we’ve been friends forever I wouldn’t leave you hanging”.


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[1-tonmudder]

What keeps common people down is common folks to scared to act.....well uncommon.

I didn't just pull that out of my ass,my opinion was based on experience.I have saw buddies go into buisness (or whatever you want to call it) together and it always turned in to,at the very least,hard fellings.

 

[UTfball68]

The biggest problem is there aren’t any commercial properties available, I’ve been looking on and off for a place for a while or the property that is for sale is stupid expensive on a sf price. The 10,000 sf warehouse is over 125 dollars a sf on the two I’ve found. That’s stupid expensive when I can get a new red iron for around 65-85 sf


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That’s nuckin futs...not the best examples, but in 15 seconds this is what I was able to come up with that fit the theme you’re going for...

 

[drkelly]

I would be worried about theft at some shop in a random place.

I echo 1-ton mudder's thoughts. No way I would rent a building with other people. Life happens, and people move on or their interests change. Plus, I wouldn't work on my stuff nearly as much if I had to drive to my shop.

I would be finding a cheap way to put a shop building behind my house. See Bruiser's shop thread. I'm pretty sure he bought his shop used, and moved it.

 

[Loganwayne]

I would be worried about theft at some shop in a random place.

I echo 1-ton mudder's thoughts. No way I would rent a building with other people. Life happens, and people move on or their interests change. Plus, I wouldn't work on my stuff nearly as much if I had to drive to my shop.

I would be finding a cheap way to put a shop building behind my house. See Bruiser's shop thread. I'm pretty sure he bought his shop used, and moved it.

Biggest problem with putting a shop up is I plan on moving in 2-5 years. And the lot I live on doesn’t have much room. It’s basically the same with the other two guys.




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[drkelly]

Biggest problem with putting a shop up is I plan on moving in 2-5 years. And the lot I live on doesn’t have much room. It’s basically the same with the other two guys.




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Ok, I see why you want to rent a shop now. Makes sense.

 

[ckruzer]

What is the rent $ per person yall are looking for?

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

I didn't just pull that out of my ass,my opinion was based on experience.I have saw buddies go into buisness (or whatever you want to call it) together and it always turned in to,at the very least,hard fellings.

I know you didn't pull it from your butt. I failed three times already....and all three times others failed to do it business like. I wasn't putting you down or arguing....but I stand on my opinion. Each was handled just like business. Loses divided and money appropriated. Each time I also walked away head up and learned. Most of the time I also gained equipment and or materials because of the others debt or poor decisions.

 

[Loganwayne]

I know you didn't pull it from your butt. I failed three times already....and all three times others failed to do it business like. I wasn't putting you down or arguing....but I stand on my opinion. Each was handled just like business. Loses divided and money appropriated. Each time I also walked away head up and learned. Most of the time I also gained equipment and or materials because of the others debt or poor decisions.

Although the rent and everything would be set up as a business. Their won’t be in business ran out of it. We are basically looking for a place out of the weather that we can use. We all have our own tools. Bender/notcher, welders and plasma cutters we have all went in on together already and just move them around to who’s ever house needs them at the time. This is one of the reason I think it would work out okay with these guys. I realize things change and a wrench can get thrown in plans but we have also talked about everyone throwing in extra cash into a side account to cover ourselves if something came up and couldn’t cover our rent that month that would cover it. (Like hospital visit/ lost job or whatever)
And we all have talked about what happens if someone decides they want out. That is one of the things we are looking at as well if one person walks could the rest still cover the cost easily


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[Loganwayne]

What is the rent $ per person yall are looking for?

It depends on the property but 2-300 per person should be doable. But that’s all in covering utilities. Which we found a place that fits that but lady didn’t want to rent it for anything but storage.


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[Loganwayne]

That’s nuckin futs...not the best examples, but in 15 seconds this is what I was able to come up with that fit the theme you’re going for...

View attachment 278474 View attachment 278475

I did a commercial search today. Nothing there just isn’t old buildings standing around here like there is down east or near the bigger cities even going towards Asheville I wasn’t finding anything that was decently priced. And if the right place became Available I’d have no problem buying it and if we decided we didn’t want it anymore sell it or rent it to someone else


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[UTfball68]

all three times others failed to do it business like.

That's the key right there from my experience. Most of the time these buddy/family shops open up without predefined roles or expectations...and ends up basically being a frat party, dude this is totally cool we're in business together...that is until it comes time to pay the bills, and then folks typically like throwing around who did or didn't do what...and resentment begins to form. I'm with you, I do 100% believe it can be done, I have one business with my brother right now (10 years), and another with 2 buddies (4 years), and just entered in as a minority partner with my full time job (probably the toughest scenario since I'm the youngest by 20 years, only been with the company for 6 months and everyone else has been together for 10 years). Fact remains, early on, the precedent needs to be set that you're not going to take shit, and doing things the right way is really the only thing that matters. Sure, there will be some fights and hurt feelings over a little tough love, but I'd rather have that early on and end up making money hand over fist and eventually everyone maturing and understanding why things were said, than losing my ass financially and good friends/family.

 

[RatLabGuy]

I couple of friends in my offroad club did this for awhile. Found a local guy that had a 4 or 5 bay garage that was on property tucked off in a section of town away from homes, with maybe 5 acres around it that wasn't developable.
Seems like there had originally been an old house there that burned or something and was gone, and for whatever reason the land was really sellable, maybe a perc problem, so the owner was just looking for a way to make some money back.
A bunch of them went in together to rent, it was really cheap, like $500 a month or something. Had water on an outside spigot, no plumbing or bathrooms. Guy knew they were working on their own vehicles but they had to sign a thing promising no business work.
It was a constant shit show. Always a mess, nobody could ever find their tools b/c when they were there one of their friends had borrowed something and not returned it. Parts everywhere. Everybody always complaining about the communal beer fridge getting emptied but never restocked by the emptier. As you can imagine w/ no plumbing and being remote, things just got washed outside creating all kinds of hazmat mess, guys just shit in teh woods out back, etc. One guy moved and stopped paying his share, they found a new guy who turned out to be a real pain in the ass, they basically kicked him out. Another guy sort of vanished for awhile, left his stuff there in a pile, they ended up selling some of it to cover his part of the rent. It did get broken into a couple times but oddly never majorly "cleaned out" stolen, just some random stuff.
All the guys were friends, and in the end still were, I think b/c they were all pretty young and forgiving, but it was never sustainable. Eventually the owner got pissed about the mess and clear lack of control/responsibility and booted them.

I'm with Drew, the only way it will work is to be formal and run like a business. everyone has to have a mindset of sticking to their own space and stuff. The problem is to do this you need a head honcho - somebody has to the CEO guy, the captain of the ship, to keep it in line and working out OK.
I could see maybe 3 really good friends who trust each other like brothers getting away w/ sharing things and getting along but anything else is going to be difficult.

 

[Loganwayne]

I couple of friends in my offroad club did this for awhile. Found a local guy that had a 4 or 5 bay garage that was on property tucked off in a section of town away from homes, with maybe 5 acres around it that wasn't developable.
Seems like there had originally been an old house there that burned or something and was gone, and for whatever reason the land was really sellable, maybe a perc problem, so the owner was just looking for a way to make some money back.
A bunch of them went in together to rent, it was really cheap, like $500 a month or something. Had water on an outside spigot, no plumbing or bathrooms. Guy knew they were working on their own vehicles but they had to sign a thing promising no business work.
It was a constant shit show. Always a mess, nobody could ever find their tools b/c when they were there one of their friends had borrowed something and not returned it. Parts everywhere. Everybody always complaining about the communal beer fridge getting emptied but never restocked by the emptier. As you can imagine w/ no plumbing and being remote, things just got washed outside creating all kinds of hazmat mess, guys just shit in teh woods out back, etc. One guy moved and stopped paying his share, they found a new guy who turned out to be a real pain in the ass, they basically kicked him out. Another guy sort of vanished for awhile, left his stuff there in a pile, they ended up selling some of it to cover his part of the rent. It did get broken into a couple times but oddly never majorly "cleaned out" stolen, just some random stuff.
All the guys were friends, and in the end still were, I think b/c they were all pretty young and forgiving, but it was never sustainable. Eventually the owner got pissed about the mess and clear lack of control/responsibility and booted them.

I'm with Drew, the only way it will work is to be formal and run like a business. everyone has to have a mindset of sticking to their own space and stuff. The problem is to do this you need a head honcho - somebody has to the CEO guy, the captain of the ship, to keep it in line and working out OK.
I could see maybe 3 really good friends who trust each other like brothers getting away w/ sharing things and getting along but anything else is going to be difficult.

The last statement is why it should work for us. We have become a family, one guy that has a little boy calls me and the other guy his brothers. And we all have similar views when it comes to keeps a shop clean and working on stuff. I have done this once with a guy and he wouldn’t clean his shit up and I pulled out because of the way he kept the shop.


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