Sabotage??

[mommucked]

I recently inherited an 03 toyota highlander 3.0 w 160k. It had almost 2 qts of oil in it and was leaking oil profusely out the valve cover side facing the radiator. I finally got around to looking at it, pulled the engine cover off and found all of the front valve cover bolts on the exhaust side of the valve cover were less than finger tight. I tightened them and checked all the others I could get to on both heads and they were all nice and tight. This car was only serviced at 2 lube shops within sight of each other for 13 yrs. and I'm thinking someone loosened them so they could recommend "replacing" the gaskets and charge 4/6 hunerd dollars to just tighten the valve cover gasket bolts. I cleaned all the oil off the engine and after driving it for 3 weeks it's not leaking anymore. Anyone think they came loose by themselves ?

 

[Fabrik8]

Highly doubt that happened in isolation on one valve cover and not the other.. The rear bank bolts with the same gasket material, etc., should show the same symptoms because both heads are subject to the same engine vibration profile. So it sounds like they've been loosened, or there was some reason the cover was taken off at some point and not reassembled properly.

Don't go pointing fingers though, it doesn't sound like you have enough info on an inherited vehicle to place blame on anyone specific..

 

[a_kelley]

Yes, by themselves. Gaskets lose thickness over time and heat cycles. I bet if you pull the cover you still find hard as rock gaskets. I don't think lube places would do that but you would have a difficult time proving that they did loosen them. My $.02

Edit: posted simultaneously as Fabrik8. Agree with Fabrik8, could be intentional, but impossible to prove.

 

[mommucked]

I also have a record of the timing belt,waterpump etc. service/replacement @ 125K @ dealearship. You think they could have been accidently loosened by a tech. who forgot to tighten them back up? I'm pretty sure the timing/pump etc. service does not require removing the covers and neither look like they were ever removed from looking at the bolts and harnesses etc. There are a few very small leaks I can see from underneath at the rear cover but they are about dry. The oilpan seems to be leaking also but that looks like an easy fix on this engine.

 

[mommucked]

Yes, by themselves. Gaskets lose thickness over time and heat cycles. I bet if you pull the cover you still find hard as rock gaskets. I don't think lube places would do that but you would have a difficult time proving that they did loosen them. My $.02

Edit: posted simultaneously as Fabrik8. Agree with Fabrik8, could be intentional, but impossible to prove.

Is there any reason the front facing,outside edge of the gasket would fail/degrade faster than the rear one that seems pretty good for the mileage? It appears the intake sides of both covers are not leaking at all. Also no record of the plugs being replaced and the harnesses and wires etc. look like they've never been messed with.

 

[BIGWOODY]

Highly doubt that happened in isolation on one valve cover and not the other.. The rear bank bolts with the same gasket material, etc., should show the same symptoms because both heads are subject to the same engine vibration profile. So it sounds like they've been loosened, or there was some reason the cover was taken off at some point and not reassembled properly.

I see cars every week that have the same issues, sometimes it's one side, not the other, some bolts, but not all.. Most of these cars I've been the only to work on them, ever. Heat, vibration, material breakdown/compression overtime 13 years can make a lot of changes.

I don't know what your profession is, but from your response it smells of engineer.

 

[Falko]

I see cars every week that have the same issues, sometimes it's one side, not the other, some bolts, but not all.. Most of these cars I've been the only to work on them, ever. Heat, vibration, material breakdown/compression overtime 13 years can make a lot of changes.

I don't know what your profession is, but from your response it smells of engineer.

I see you've never read one if his posts before if you just figured that out.

As far as determining whether it was an international act... What's your desired result? If it's no longer leaking just move on with life.

 

[Blaze]

I would bet it was an accident that some tech did. I once took my Trailblazer to Sears to have tires put on. When I got home the trans pan was leaking and some of the bolts were loose. I think they started to do a trans flud change and someone was like "hey, idiot, that thing only needs tires" and he stopped but never tightened the bolts back up.

 

[drkelly]

 

[CasterTroy]

I don't know what your profession is, but from your response it smells of engineer.

 

[RobMcBee]

I don't know about sabotage, but I do know there are some shady ass mechanics out there. And quick lube places are the worst. Had one of my wife's friends thinking she needed new brakes, she's from Peru and speaks decent English, but they had her sold on a $300 brake job. I looked at her car (a Kia Sorrento) and her pads and rotors were perfectly normal. I went back up there and confronted the manger. Of course he blamed a rookie tech. I called his BS... She now comes to me before having any work done.

Another issue I had was with a quick lube here in town. 19.95 oil change coupon... Great! Changing the oil on our old Liberty was a bitch b/c of the filter location. Pulled in told the tech I had a coupon, he said ok, asked me what oil, I said factory recommends blah blah..... They get done and I go to pay....

69.95! For oil?

Ummmm ok here's my 20.00 coupon...

That's for a reg oil change....

Well that's all I got isn't it? ...

No you got synthetic!

No I asked for (I think it was 5w20)

You told my tech synthetic.

No I told your tech I had a 20.oo coupon

Well you owe us 69.95

No, I owe you 20, if you made a mistake the go drain the synthetic and put in reg oil.

I can't do that.... I'll give you 20 off 69.95

No I'll only pay 20.... How do I know you even put syn in? How do I know your not trying to pull one over on me....

(Blank stare)..... We don't work like that here... Takes my 20.00 and change w the coupon.

I said evidently you do.....

 

[mommucked]

Thanks for the replies. Not an engineer but have seen, heard and experienced multitudes of shitty work, or charging for work/replacement parts that were not done at all by quick lube/tune up places and repair shops.

 

[Blaze]

Another issue I had was with a quick lube here in town. 19.95 oil change coupon... Great! Changing the oil on our old Liberty was a bitch b/c of the filter location. Pulled in told the tech I had a coupon, he said ok, asked me what oil, I said factory recommends blah blah..... They get done and I go to pay....

My wife had a similar situation back when we were dating and she took her car in for an oil change and they did the same deal. I went and complained and he gave me a free oil change. I took one of my cars in that took like 7 quarts of oil and got a free change.

 

[Fabrik8]

I see cars every week that have the same issues, sometimes it's one side, not the other, some bolts, but not all.. Most of these cars I've been the only to work on them, ever. Heat, vibration, material breakdown/compression overtime 13 years can make a lot of changes.

I don't know what your profession is, but from your response it smells of engineer.

Yes, automotive engineer.

That engine's valve cover gasket is an o-ring/channel type gasket if I remember correctly, not a flat gasket, and when it ages it leaks, and there is nothing between the cover and head mating surfaces to lose compression (because it's not a flat gasket). I understand different banks being loose or tight, but that's normally more of a mixture of some loose and some tight on the same valve cover, or all loose on one edge because of higher thermal expansion.
One bank with correct tension and one bank where all fasteners can be spun off by hand really still smells like human intervention.

 

[Fabrik8]

Oops, nevermind. I missed the "exhaust side only" part. Yeah, that's totally plausible. I thought it was all bolts on the entire cover. Too much vacation beer last night apparently.

No, probably not sabotage. Agree with Falko though, tighten up and move on if theres no leaks.


Oh, also check if there's any oil in the plug tube wells that needs to be cleaned out. The plug tube seals may have got loose enough to leak if you lost tension on one entire side if the valve cover. Those are often the first things to leak anyway, far before the valve cover gaskets on many engines.

 

[Infamous1]

Most lube shops don't want to do any "tech" work therefore they wouldn't have any reason for sabotage.

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[mommucked]

Oops, nevermind. I missed the "exhaust side only" part. Yeah, that's totally plausible. I thought it was all bolts on the entire cover. Too much vacation beer last night apparently.

No, probably not sabotage. Agree with Falko though, tighten up and move on if theres no leaks.


Oh, also check if there's any oil in the plug tube wells that needs to be cleaned out. The plug tube seals may have got loose enough to leak if you lost tension on one entire side if the valve cover. Those are often the first things to leak anyway, far before the valve cover gaskets on many engines.

Thanks I will do that tomorrow, well the front plugs anyway, the intake has to be removed to get to all of the rear plugs.

 

[mysterync]

I see you've never read one if his posts before if you just figured that out.

As far as determining whether it was an international act... What's your desired result? If it's no longer leaking just move on with life.

I thought his profession was "troll"...lol just kidding

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