School me on the construction industry

adman02

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2009
Location
Durham, NC
After 20 years in a white collar job (marketing), I'm considering a voluntary career change and am seriously considering construction. The catch is that I have no background in construction (not an engineer, no military service, not the family business, etc.).

On the upside, I'm currently enrolled in the Construction Management diploma program through NC State and working on my OSHA 30-hour certification.

Before I take the plunge, though, I thought I could tap the collective wisdom of this forum...
• How stable is the construction industry at the management level?
• What kind of career advancement opportunities are there?
• What does a day in the life of a construction manager look like?
• Are there other roles/positions in construction (besides CM) that would be more suited to someone with my "non-traditional" background?
• What other advice would you offer to someone who's looking to make a transition like this?
• What else could or should I be doing to help me get my foot in the door?

I genuinely appreciate any thoughts, advice or perspective you can offer.
 
I have a Masters/undergrad in CM from ECU. Been working in the industry since 2008 or so.

A few things to consider.

1. What part of the industry are you interested in? This will dictate whether or not you want to chase jobs across the country. I have colleagues that do this. They bounce from one toll project to another all over the country. The same can be said for light rail projects/heavy civil.

2. Currently, the industry is stable and is killing it(at least my side of the house). However you don't have to look very far back(2008) to see how bad it got. I graduated in 2010 and had an awful hard time finding a job.

3. The company I work for is contracted through the State to manage its toll roads(EXCEPT I77, don't put that on me!). I manage the day to day operations of the road, the operations center, and respond to any emergencies etc. Prior to this I was an inspector working in the field(invaluable experience) for 6 years. I moved up because of hard work and the degree certainly helped. I went from inspections to contract management to now operations manager. Depending on the industry, there are plenty of career advancements to be had.

4. With your background in marketing, I would suggest looking for a role as a consultant. We have several graphic designers/marketing folks that work on the Turnpike team. Little to no actual construction experience but they do a fantastic job in attracting new clients/new projects etc.

5. Don't be afraid to get dirty. The first day I met my last boss, he was in a 15ft trench inspecting some conduit, even with 40yrs experience under his belt.

6. Don't be that guy that comes onto a project with a degree and starts telling people how they are doing everything wrong. I've seen it happen and it instantly turns everyone against you.

Good luck, its a great industry and the CM program was fantastic(at least at ECU...)
 
Ask you asking about commercial or residential?

how much of a pay cut are you willing to take. Most residential pm's start at 35-40k a year with no experience.
 
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The only industry more volatile is the restaurant business.

That being said, this is one of the few industries that (for the most part) you get out exactly what you put in (if you work your ass off, it usually works out for you).

Don't expect to work less than 60-80 hours week. This is very much a business of putting your time in and reaping the benefits. Very rewarding when its done correctly.
 
Depends on exactly which industry you are looking at. I'm in steel and its booming right now. We have more work than we can do. I'm not in upper management, but I did just get bumped into being the assistant field manager. From what I have seen over the last 5 years, new construction is only going up.
 
I also have master’s and undergraduate construction management degrees. Been in the business since 1998...

With your background and this being a new career for you, you may find success in a business development role for a large contractor.

New graduates typically are associate/junior PMs for a few years, gaining experience before given larger projects as a full PM. Project engineers may be a good entry role as well as you learn the nuts and bolts of the project before managing.

I guess the biggest question is, residential, commercial, or industrial?

residential is more volatile than commercial and commercial moreso than industrial. Pharma is really hot right now and there is a lot of it in the RDU area. But, that industry is seeking experienced pharma people to keep up with the demand. It’s a very different industry than typical construction.

As a CM, not coming from a construction background, you will probably be funneled through the system as a project engineer or PM and not a CM. Most CMs have a lot of construction field experience before making their way to a CM role.
 
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Wow! Really great perspective so far. Please keep it coming.

To answer a few questions - I've gotten the impression that residential is pretty tough, especially in the sub $500K home price range. I'm learning more towards commercial, but didn't even know these was such a thing as industrial. Will have to look into that.

The pay cut thing is a real downer, but I expected it. The biggest challenge is that I'm the sole provider for a family of four, so a short-term hit is doable but not sustainable in the long run.
 
Educated construction management guys out of college can land PM or assistant PM jobs for $60-$70k, maybe more if you have a good head on your shoulders.

Already being educated with a good work history and not a 22 year old new grad with no career history will typically give you an advantage, either with a little more $, on the short list of incumbents, or both. But, it may also throw up a red flag, so be prepared for that.


Industrial construction is my industry. Residential and some commercial contractors don’t typically work in industrial; there is just a completely different type of worker in residential that doesn’t usually mesh well with industrial. Industrial projects are usually much more driven by plans and specs and safety and schedule. SFR is as well, but not like $50+ million projects. I do residential flips and I know first hand that residential subs operate entirely different than industrial; it drives me crazy!


you also have heavy highway and civil construction. Building roads and bridges and airports, etc can be rewarding as well.

Or, you could choose to concentrate your efforts in the subcontractor market. This could focus on electrical, concrete, drywall, painting, roofing, framing, steel erecting, pools, or even irrigation and landscaping.

The possibilities are endless. Decide what you like and research.


IMO, if you are looking at something less volatile which generally pays more, I’d focus on heavy industrial. However, that industry can be tough to break into and the larger projects can be more difficult to find without traveling.

Residential is really hot right now around RDU, so don’t discount that avenue because there is good $ there as well. But consider this, if you go the residential route and change your mind and want to do industrial, that’s a really tough jump.
 
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Basically everything I was going to say has been said.
Residential track homes you could make some money, if you get a bonus program and know what your doing.
I’ve got a buddy I went to school with and has a salary of 40,000 but is making 6 figures because he has figured out how to stream line the system he’s working on and turning out 1.5-2 houses to everyone else’s 1.
With that said where do you want to be?
Do you want to be gone 5 days a week? Willing to relocate a lot?
What is your career now?

You may try to get in on the other side of construction like working for a city

A degree will get you an interview but realistically you gonna start on the bottom of the management side.


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I have made a comfortable life selling construction materials for industrial/commercial construction for commission. Mainly everything the goes in, on and around concrete, some masonry, waterproofing and restoration. As said earlier it’s either feast or famine and right now the feast is in for sure!
 
Another avenue is Preconstruction. Think of it as 50% estimating, 25% BD, and 25% project management (for us anyway). My former boss would say it’s 1/3 each.

In precon we work hand in hand with design teams to ensure what is being drawn meets the owners’ expectations, both with design intent and budget, typically over three different design phases. I am typically tasked with driving a design team to make changes to suit an owners' needs (mostly budget), or to educate the owner so they can make a sometimes difficult decision on the direction of their project.
The BD side of things comes in due to the fact that we are, more often than not, the clients first experience with our company. We have to not only sell them on our company, but if they are a first time CMaR client, on the CMaR delivery method.
My typical project range is 30m - 100m. I am working on my first 200+m project right now though.
We are mostly known for public CMaR projects but do a lot of design build, negotiated, and some hard bid work. I cut my teeth in public CMR projects (after I transitioned from industrial contracting).

I like doing precon because it’s a more standard work schedule, which is what my family demands of me (plus I can sneak out to swap Jeep parts with people who don't live too far away ;) ), yet we still average 50/60hr weeks.
I do miss being on the operations side every now and again though.

People are hard to come by right now. If you are driven, have a head on your shoulders, can operate excel, and know how to read a set of prints I would hire you. The more experience you have would guide me as to what level you would be hired at.
One of the more senior guys in our office is adamant that the bottom is going to drop out in 2023, so who knows what will happen when that happens.

Good luck!
 
I was talking to a couple Co workers recently and I said I give the industry another 4-5 years and we will see another dip like in 2008, especially in residential and light commercial. They both looked at me a little strange.

I think we are flooding the market with a lot of spec and tract homes and high density to the point the market won’t support that much inventory any longer and places will sit on the market, prices will drop, and the industry will stall for another 8 years until the demand catches up.

right now it’s a race to be first to market, and the ones that are not first chance losing out big time, especially with large tract neighborhoods and large high density projects.

light commercial to support these large residential projects will be less likely to be affected as much if they get a good anchor store leased long term, but the small walk up retail spaces will be left vacant or rented at a discount to a C-list tenant.
 
rockcity said:
I was talking to a couple Co workers recently and I said I give the industry another 4-5 years and we will see another dip like in 2008, especially in residential and light commercial. They both looked at me a little strange.

I think we are flooding the market with a lot of spec and tract homes and high density to the point the market won’t support that much inventory any longer and places will sit on the market, prices will drop, and the industry will stall for another 8 years until the demand catches up.

right now it’s a race to be first to market, and the ones that are not first chance losing out big time, especially with large tract neighborhoods and large high density projects.

light commercial to support these large residential projects will be less likely to be affected as much if they get a good anchor store leased long term, but the small walk up retail spaces will be left vacant or rented at a discount to a C-list tenant.
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I think tract home bubble will bust around most of nc big cities. Asheville is still widely under housed for the amount of people in it and moving to it. For whatever reason there isn’t any large scale tract housing going on here either or at least not on the scale as charlotte Winston Salem or Raleigh


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Loganwayne said:
I think tract home bubble will bust around most of nc big cities. Asheville is still widely under housed for the amount of people in it and moving to it. For whatever reason there isn’t any large scale tract housing going on here either or at least not on the scale as charlotte Winston Salem or Raleigh


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No but they are still building a shit pile of apartment complexes currently.
 
orange150 said:
One of the more senior guys in our office is adamant that the bottom is going to drop out in 2023, so who knows what will happen when that happens.
Click to expand...

Tell me what the headline is 11/4/2020....it might be sooner than that.
 
I guess my real question is this - is there a reasonable (respectable income, with opportunity to advance somewhat quickly) entry point in construction for someone with a non-traditional background like me? If so, what is it - estimating? project engineer, something else? I'm not opposed to putting in labor and/or learning hours, but realistically don't think I can afford to be bringing in entry-level wages for an extended period of time (no disrespect to anyone who does; just won't work for where I am in life right now). It sounds like the answer is either it depends OR no. Hmmm. Might need to do some more thinking on this before making any moves.

On another note, I had my first CM class last Friday. One of the guys in the class just got out of the luxury tree house business. Said his most expensive build was $750,000... ... ...for a damn treehouse. Maybe that should be my next career!
 
You are probably going to be entry level for some time. But with your history, you have a proven record which could prove worthy, either in pay or responsibility, or both. But, advancement in this industry typically involves experience.

I’d say a good place to start thinking about would be estimating, project engineer, or even sales.

your going to make the most $ in sales and get there faster than you would at most any other role. But it takes some time and building of relationships.

entry level project engineer or estimator is probably looking at $45k-$65k, depending on the industry and clientele. Sales guys I know start at a $35k base but most are over $100k easily as they are based on commissions. But when the industry gets slow, the sales guys are the first to feel it because they are compensated on commissions.
 
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Another thought...

sounds like you have a 4-year degree...

ECU and others have a Master’s of Construction Management program that is 100% online. ECU’s program is geared to professionals that want that degree and don’t necessarily have a CMGT undergrad degree. In all honesty, there was very little that I truly learned in that program regarding execution (scheduling, estimating, etc). I was in the program with urban planners, city managers, business owners, and much more. Myself and one other (@YJJPWrangler )were the only two that I knew of that had CMGT undergraduate degrees in that MCM program. I did learn a lot more about construction law and contracts as well as sustainability. Quality and risk management were a couple others that were enlightening even though I felt they were more theory based and lacked the ability to be executed and effective in the real world.

so, instead of spending time on an undergraduate degree and competing with 22 yo graduates for entry level positions, you could spend your time in a MCM program and have an advanced degree and a much higher probability of landing a more senior role and more $ in likely the same amount of time as a lesser degree.
 
Agreed with @rockcity, the ECU CMGT Master's program really didn't teach me a whole lot more about construction. But it did offer me more insight into contract law, quality etc. That would be a great program to look into it. I did it online and the coursework was pretty sustainable while working a full time job.
 
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