Shady (not shadetree) Mechanic

mysterync said:
Being in auto repair I'd like to throw in some thoughts.
1: you tell a customer your going to do something, you do it. AGREED
2: sometimes the customers don't know best - as the professional it's our job to educate the customer. AGREED, he knows WAY more about 6.0's than I could ever dream to know (or at least he seems to)
3: automotive repairs can't be decided on cost alone. Quality, warranty, customer service and the level of attention to detail. AGREED
4: automotive repairs time frame can't be the decider- this job couldnt, shouldn't and wouldn't be done in my shop in 3 days. Maybe I'm slow but I try to pay very close attention to every detail (and work on 50 other things a day) He said 3 days, I knew it could take a little longer. He COULD have had it done in 3 days if he would have worked on it. Both days I was there he didn't even touch it.
5: you should have absolutely verified the work when you began to question - and made it extremely clear those heads wouldn't go back on until they'd been surfaced - they can and will leak! Didn't want to piss off someone that had $14k worth of my property, when I'd have no recourse if he just quit working on it right then.
6: $1,000 less than the bill isn't exactly fair, but considering you'll likely get to do it again maybe not extremely unfair. Machine work would run 150-$300. AGREED, I felt like paying $1k less was both a great deal for me (if they never fail), and a horrible deal for me (if they do fail). For him, it covered his parts cost (about $850 or so), even covered parts he claimed to have bought (coolant and oil), and covered SOME of his time.
7: should have never picked it up until you knew it had surfaced heads on it. You have no recourse once you have paid the bill and picked it up.

Hope it works out for you! Even at $3,000 in my opinion you got a good deal! That is why I took it to him, sounded like he knew his stuff, the price ($3k) was great. I wouldn't take my excursion to someone that had not worked on 6.0's on a regular basis, but he claimed to have changed many 6.0 head gaskets. Maybe he has done so many he has found ways he feels safe cutting corners?
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There's no doubt in my mind the guy needs some business and ethics training lol. I'm completely on your side and I hope you know that. Just saying that it could have worked out better for you - I know I know captain hindsight. He should have set reasonable expectations, and should have honored his word. After all that all you've really got.
Good machine shops are hard to find, and when you find one pay them extra and buy their lunch. From everyone who's helped me along my path - the correct method to perform a head gasket job includes surfacing to the correct ra & flatness, and a valve job. The 6.0 is no exception and from what I've been told it's even more important.
On another note here's a great read on cylinder head finish - http://www.enginebuildermag.com/200...avoid-when-resurfacing-cylinder-heads-blocks/


http://www.rlengines.com/Web_Pages/Cylinder_Head_Milling_R-and_L_Engines.html
 
Tacoma747 said:
I was referred to a guy up in Madison by Snappy named Jerome,
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THIS is what got my attention in this thread.
@snappy is personal friend of mine and is straight as an arrow.
Leave him out of this bullshit.
Edit button is yo friend.
 
Paul said:
THIS is what got my attention in this thread.
@snappy is personal friend of mine and is straight as an arrow.
Leave him out of this bullshit.
Edit button is yo friend.
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Snappy is a friend of mine too. How does this reflect badly upon snappy? He didn't know Jerome would do this... heck, as you saw, snappy said jerome has worked on his vehicles with no issues. I am not saying everything jerome does is bad, just I won't take anything else to him because he did not do what he was supposed to have done (and claimed he did).

If @snappy feels this reflects badly upon him then he is free to tell me and I will delete everywhere he is mentioned.
 
Like stated. When i was dealing with him he was a customer working at a shop in town. When he left i have no contact. I see more and more great mechanics ruin there name because alot are not good business men. I have no issue as long as everyone understands i have no connection or profited in any way on this deal. I was asked who could do work for a better deal and made the sugestion..... Guess maybe the old shop was covering some of side work overhead??? No clue.
 
I think you could have figured he wasn't going to get the head refinished when he mentioned 3 day turn around. I don't know any machine shop that turns stuff around that fast.

That's about all I have to add.:popcorn:
 
I didn't really think about it. If he knew a guy that is good with the 6.0 heads I don't see why it couldn't be done. Body off/heads off first day, take them to the shop that evening (assuming it is a small shop that is able to work a different schedule), get heads the next evening, install them the 3rd day. If you hustled it could be done, easily in 5 days.

What I didn't think of before but it is pretty obvious now, he never planned on getting the heads done and just hoped I would not find out I guess.
 
I worked for ford for a while. I never personally did head gaskets on a 6.0 but I helped our diesel tech, who had an L1 cert and cents out the ass from Ford, and has was the go to guy here in Greenville for them, by lending him a hand with torquing the studs or maneuvering the hoist, I dealt a lot more with the gas motors. In the 5+ years I was there I never saw 6.0 heads go out for machine work. I had a straight edge in my box, if there was a head in question would check it with a feeler gauge. Granted for me it was mainly aluminum heads because I was the rear end/gas motor guy and in the OHC motors you shave the head you'll have some serious issues when it cranks back up. Not saying it's not possible for the 6.0 heads to warp but I never saw it happen. Also we did it the old school way of pulling the motor to put studs in it. Not saying he was right for not getting them machined, but that I'm just speaking from my experiences of them.
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
I worked for ford for a while. I never personally did head gaskets on a 6.0 but I helped our diesel tech, who had an L1 cert and cents out the ass from Ford, and has was the go to guy here in Greenville for them, by lending him a hand with torquing the studs or maneuvering the hoist, I dealt a lot more with the gas motors. In the 5+ years I was there I never saw 6.0 heads go out for machine work. I had a straight edge in my box, if there was a head in question would check it with a feeler gauge. Granted for me it was mainly aluminum heads because I was the rear end/gas motor guy and in the OHC motors you shave the head you'll have some serious issues when it cranks back up. Not saying it's not possible for the 6.0 heads to warp but I never saw it happen. Also we did it the old school way of pulling the motor to put studs in it. Not saying he was right for not getting them machined, but that I'm just speaking from my experiences of them.
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I'm pretty close friends with our ford diesel tech at the local ford store. The heads don't come off without going to the machine shop - anything less is asking for issues or a repeat failure. All of the data from ford requires a surface and valve job or replacement. Guess your diesel tech wasn't doing his job.
 
The real moral to the story here is don't buy a 6.0 ford......
As a shop owner several things popped out at me. You seem to be a guy looking for a "deal" you got what you payed for. I tell my customers all the time , "you can probably find someone cheaper but beware", you just learned the hard way. I can't believe the guy let you work on anything while the truck was at his shop, he's a dumbass and his insurance company would tell him the same(assuming he's insured). Him lying is a serious issue, but I hear stories of it happening daily. As you get older you'll figure out from lessons like this to sometimes pay a little more for a better job, but maybe not. Hopefully your 6.0 will stay together...but probably not.
 
mysterync said:
I'm pretty close friends with our ford diesel tech at the local ford store. The heads don't come off without going to the machine shop - anything less is asking for issues or a repeat failure. All of the data from ford requires a surface and valve job or replacement. Guess your diesel tech wasn't doing his job.
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Exactly. I am no engine mechanic but I had done a lot of research beforehand on the subject and had just decided it would be best to send them to be checked for cracks/flatness. I had just replaced the injectors a couple months before, changing head gaskets is not out of the realm of something I COULD do, I just didn't want to fight with pulling the body since I don't have a lift (or at least don't have one installed anywhere).
 
BIGWOODY said:
The real moral to the story here is don't buy a 6.0 ford...... I like mine, 237k miles and as far as I know this is the first major repair (I have had it since about 190k) (BUT I UNDERSTAND THE REASONING)
As a shop owner several things popped out at me. You seem to be a guy looking for a "deal" you got what you payed for. Sadly, I'll have to agree I tell my customers all the time , "you can probably find someone cheaper but beware", you just learned the hard way. Yup I can't believe the guy let you work on anything while the truck was at his shop, he's a dumbass and his insurance company would tell him the same(assuming he's insured) I figured out after him starting on it that it is not actually HIS shop, he rents a bay when he needs a lift. He also does some work there, but the shop manager was clear to tell me that ALL the guys that work there are "on their own if they get hurt (no workers comp), he said the same applied to me (I am sure if something happened I might could have sued, but I made it clear to him I was good with that deal just to be able to do some basic stuff easier with the body off). Him lying is a serious issue, but I hear stories of it happening daily. As you get older you'll figure out from lessons like this to sometimes pay a little more for a better job, but maybe not. Even if I paid more for the same job to be done over again, you can bet I'd still be the one taking the heads to the machine shop, and I'd be willing to tell the mechanic why I insisted to do it myself so there would be ABSOLUTELY no confusion about whether it was done or not. Hopefully your 6.0 will stay together...but probably not. we will see, has been a good one so far, especially since I tow regularly. If it goes I have a Cummins 6bt and a spare 6.0 sitting here I could swap in.
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mysterync said:
I'm pretty close friends with our ford diesel tech at the local ford store. The heads don't come off without going to the machine shop - anything less is asking for issues or a repeat failure. All of the data from ford requires a surface and valve job or replacement. Guess your diesel tech wasn't doing his job.
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Must be new because even warranty claims didn't ask for that, granted this was 5 years or so ago. So maybe things have changed but I never saw them go to a machine shop and if they did studs they never came back for head gaskets. And Ford warranty won't pay for a machine shop because it's not endorsed or owned by them so they can't guarantee the machine shops work. If they were check for flatness and found out of spec under warranty they would get replaced. And I've never seen a valve job completed under warranty, you replace the head. When I was there 2000-2010 , the 3v engines were eating valve guides like crazy, worked with the Ford engineers on this, if they were just .001 out of spec it got a new head. They try to minimize issues that could be caused by the tech. Say one spins a rod bearing or a wrist pin goes out, short block at the least or a long block gets put in it. So Im not buying what your saying, Sorry. Shit the valves are pretty much level with the bottom of these heads these is no combustion chamber it's all in the dish of the piston. They won't pay to to disassemble the heads and go send them to get checked and machined. Hell they tried screwing you out of everything possible that they could. Hell I remember having to punch in on the work order just to try and get paid for some weird ass diag concept engineers tried to come up with.
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
Must be new because even warranty claims didn't ask for that, granted this was 5 years or so ago. So maybe things have changed but I never saw them go to a machine shop and if they did studs they never came back for head gaskets. And Ford warranty won't pay for a machine shop because it's not endorsed or owned by them so they can't guarantee the machine shops work. If they were check for flatness and found out of spec under warranty they would get replaced. And I've never seen a valve job completed under warranty, you replace the head. When I was there 2000-2010 , the 3v engines were eating valve guides like crazy, worked with the Ford engineers on this, if they were just .001 out of spec it got a new head. They try to minimize issues that could be caused by the tech. Say one spins a rod bearing or a wrist pin goes out, short block at the least or a long block gets put in it. So Im not buying what your saying, Sorry. Shit the valves are pretty much level with the bottom of these heads these is no combustion chamber it's all in the dish of the piston. They won't pay to to disassemble the heads and go send them to get checked and machined. Hell they tried screwing you out of everything possible that they could. Hell I remember having to punch in on the work order just to try and get paid for some weird ass diag concept engineers tried to come up with.
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I'm not even going to get started with this lol
 
mysterync said:
I'm not even going to get started with this lol
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ImageUploadedByTapatalk1438284660.775623.jpg
how do you machine this head and not effect the combustion chamber? I do believe they can crack, but that's when your torturing the shit out of it with piggy back programmers and shoving way more to it than stock is meant to handle.
 
mysterync said:
:rolleyes:
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I'm just saying dude I know how warranty stuff is, and hell that's why they don't rebuild/overhaul engines anymore. Takes the possible screw ups from assembly from a tech or a machine shop and just replaces it with a brand new short block or long block or heads. They try and dummy proof stuff as much as possible. So as a former tech I'm skeptical of them machine a diesel head. Checking for cracks yes but resurface not so much.
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
I'm just saying dude I know how warranty stuff is, and hell that's why they don't rebuild/overhaul engines anymore. Takes the possible screw ups from assembly from a tech or a machine shop and just replaces it with a brand new short block or long block or heads. They try and dummy proof stuff as much as possible. So as a former tech I'm skeptical of them machine a diesel head. Checking for cracks yes but resurface not so much.
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:rolleyes:
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
I worked for ford for a while. I never personally did head gaskets on a 6.0 but I helped our diesel tech, who had an L1 cert and cents out the ass from Ford, and has was the go to guy here in Greenville for them, by lending him a hand with torquing the studs or maneuvering the hoist, I dealt a lot more with the gas motors. In the 5+ years I was there I never saw 6.0 heads go out for machine work. I had a straight edge in my box, if there was a head in question would check it with a feeler gauge. Granted for me it was mainly aluminum heads because I was the rear end/gas motor guy and in the OHC motors you shave the head you'll have some serious issues when it cranks back up. Not saying it's not possible for the 6.0 heads to warp but I never saw it happen. Also we did it the old school way of pulling the motor to put studs in it. Not saying he was right for not getting them machined, but that I'm just speaking from my experiences of them.
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This is why I never took my 6.0 trucks to the dealership.
 
I can't imagine replacing a head gasket without having a head run through the machine shop. Every single head gasket I do here I have checked out at the machine shop. Of course, it is a Jeep head so most of the time it is cracked and trash anyway. :lol:
 
I would say it all depends on the motor/slash heads being worked on. I've replaced 100's of Mercedes leaking ass M104 head gaskets, have never resurfaced or done a valve job on any of them and have never had a "come back" since doing the first one in the late 90's. I can't speak for a 6.0 ford, but I do know lots of people who have had to put new complete heads on them, what a fine motor.
 
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