Smart home thermostat and other devices?

rockcity

rockcity

everyday is a chance to get better
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Location
Greenville, NC
With this remodel project I'm working on, it's an ideal opportunity to upgrade the home with some smart technology.

I was looking at some of the Nexia devices, specifically some of the smart thermostats that allow for linking to smart phones and also act as a central controller for other items such as locks, light bulbs, outlets, appliances, etc.

The unit I was looking at was the American Standard Gold 824. I'm not going all out with the Z wave deadbolts or Nest light bulbs, etc. but was mostly looking to add a good central platform where tech savvy buyers could expand on the thermostat as it's the main central brain.


So, any tach savvy folks have any experience with these or anything similar? They aren't too terribly expensive at just $375, so it isn't a major cost adder for me. I think the added cost would be well worth it for resale of the property come May.
 
I've wondered about those learning/programmable thermostats....seems to me, if you are dropping the temp twice a day (overnight, then when off to work), say, six degrees....then when you get up/get home, the heat pump has to work harder to replace that heat, maybe the heat strips getting triggered. Wouldn't that energy used in recovery offset the savings of having the temp cut back from 72 to 76? It's not just the air that's drops to 66 degrees, but all the objects in the room that have to come back up.

(Also thought it was funny, in the link above....one of the pics shows their thermostat mounted directly above a floor register.)
 
Nest for sure. I love mine. We have two units and the Nest controls the one on the main floor. Its a little pricey, but I feel like it pays for itself very quickly. Our house is a lot cheaper to cool vs our old house and it is 2x the size of it.
 
Does the Nest work with locks, lights, and security cameras? Is a controller required beyond the thermostat? Is there a monthly fee?
 
kaiser715 said:
I've wondered about those learning/programmable thermostats....seems to me, if you are dropping the temp twice a day (overnight, then when off to work), say, six degrees....then when you get up/get home, the heat pump has to work harder to replace that heat, maybe the heat strips getting triggered. Wouldn't that energy used in recovery offset the savings of having the temp cut back from 72 to 76? It's not just the air that's drops to 66 degrees, but all the objects in the room that have to come back up.

(Also thought it was funny, in the link above....one of the pics shows their thermostat mounted directly above a floor register.)
Click to expand...
No, the reasonably smart devices figure it out. Even the simple ones don't allow a HUGE drop in temp. Basically they "learn" the average time it takes for the house to reheat and come to the desired temps and what it took to get there, and it will then plan ahead and start in advance so it's already warmed up at the time you set.
 
rockcity said:
Does the Nest work with locks, lights, and security cameras? Is a controller required beyond the thermostat? Is there a monthly fee?
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I wish I could answer that, but unfortunately I've personally only wired up one or two helping out a technician while he gave the full rundown as to what all they do to the homeowner. I can dig up plenty of info by tomorrow.
 
As a selling point, it won't roi imho.
 
If this is just for a house you're flipping, I don't really see why it's worth the effort.
Who is your real target buyer?
A real techie won't want what you put in, or at least it's not likely - they'll want to pick out and install their own thing, either matching what they already had or based on specs they want.
A typical non-techie won't really care much, and will be sold by whatever the wiz-bang features and name recognition are. So buy whatever is the best bang for the buck, or a Nest b/c people know the name.

I suspect the real story is that you want to learn about these things and try it out, and are using this house as an excuse where you're justifying the expense of buying it. In which case the money is for your intellectual growth, which also has value but is different from the ROI situation.
 
I think at least the ROI is break even. Most these days have smart phones and having the ability to monitor the house and control locks, lights, security, temp, etc from anywhere in the world is a nice selling point for buyers today that tend to stay glued to their phones most of the time.

Keep in mind, I'm only providing the thermostat which is also the main brains of the system. The buyer can add everything else if they want.

$100 for a decent programmable thermostat versus $375 for the Nexia or similar is not much difference in $ and worth the added expense.

My mind is made up. I'm just trying to see if anyone has experience with Nexia or similar
 
Oh, keep in mind the price point for this house is $200k. For Greenville, that's not a first time buyer price point but not over the top either. At that price point, buyers will be expecting a few upgrades. :)
 
rockcity said:
Oh and does anyone install phone lines in homes anymore?
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Yes. Install Cat6 homeruns to where the best location for a modem to be placed and tv locations. Or place a smart panel with 2 Cat6 homeruns to outside then a Cat6 to rooms that would likely need connections in the future.
 
kaiser715 said:
I've wondered about those learning/programmable thermostats....seems to me, if you are dropping the temp twice a day (overnight, then when off to work), say, six degrees....then when you get up/get home, the heat pump has to work harder to replace that heat, maybe the heat strips getting triggered. Wouldn't that energy used in recovery offset the savings of having the temp cut back from 72 to 76? It's not just the air that's drops to 66 degrees, but all the objects in the room that have to come back up.

(Also thought it was funny, in the link above....one of the pics shows their thermostat mounted directly above a floor register.)
Click to expand...

I've had a couple different set ups for 4 years now and this has been my experience with them, it generally ends up costing me MORE in utilities. Rather than keeping a uniform temp and making small adjustments throughout the day, based on ambient temps, now it's constantly running to get up/down to temp for a few hours. My house is generally between 64-68* year round. I can't wrap my head around how keeping the thermostat at 68* during the day when I'm at work, and letting it run 10-15mins/hr to cool it off a degree or 2, is worse than running for 3-4 hours to cool it off 8*. I understand I can set temp ranges so it's not as drastic of a temp change, but that seems like it defeats the purpose. If there's an engineer out there with solid thermal knowledge that wants to help me save on my utilities, you have my attention, because I can't figure it out.
 
shawn said:
That doesn't have anything to do with your thermostat.
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I understand about R value etc. The Nest will automatically turn on Eco mode when it senses your phone(and you) are not in the house. Our old place did not have a programmable Tstat so it would heat/cool until desired temp regardless if we were home. Our utility bills are about $20-40 cheaper on average with the Nest. It's pretty stupid simple to install and get running as well.

We generally keep ours around 68 or so. When we aren't home, it drops it to 66 and we heat to 72 about 430am to 630am every morning. Hate waking up in a cold house.
 
Hmmm. So Cat6 everywhere in lieu of a standard phone jack? For the minimal cost adder of Cat6 over Cat5e, that would be my choice. But with this being an investment property and not where I actually live, I have to manage scope creep and keep it functional, useful, but not over the top.

Networks are one thing I know the least about. So I'd need some help in this area.
 
I've got a Honeywell wifi thermostat, the z wave locks, ge zwave switches and bulbs, ge water heater control, go-control garage doors and some other off brand security stuff. It's all connected to samsung smartthings hub and mostly controlled by echo/alexa. All in all its a real pain in the dick to set up where it's really helpful at all but it is good for being lazy and looking cool. Anyway the nice thing about smartthings is that it can control all different brands so you aren't stuck with one companies components and it's fairly advanced. One thing to be aware of if you are adding any smart switches is that each one needs a neutral which can be a pain if not planned for. And for what it's worth I don't believe for a second there is more energy usage using a properly set up smart thermostat either.
 
braxton357 said:
All in all its a real pain in the dick to set up
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Like.

Also, the comment about not having neutrals at the switches. Gotta either home run from the device and run a 3-conductor to the switch, or hit the switch first.
 
rockcity said:
Hmmm. So Cat6 everywhere in lieu of a standard phone jack? For the minimal cost adder of Cat6 over Cat5e, that would be my choice. But with this being an investment property and not where I actually live, I have to manage scope creep and keep it functional, useful, but not over the top.

Networks are one thing I know the least about. So I'd need some help in this area.
Click to expand...
Just use Cat6 instead of 5. That price difference is minimal.
 
braxton357 said:
One thing to be aware of if you are adding any smart switches is that each one needs a neutral which can be a pain if not planned for. And for what it's worth I don't believe for a second there is more energy usage using a properly set up smart thermostat either.
Click to expand...

This is a good point. If I were re-building my own home I would absolutely do all the switches the right way where you have power to the switch and a full 2+1 conductors going to the devices, just so that the option of doing smart switches is there.
But whether it is cost effective in a case where you want to turn a profit and its not your problem... is up to you.

As an aside, sometimes it's actually easier/cheaper to use a couple powered smart switches than it is to figure out how to run wiring for a 3 or 4 way switch control.
 
just installed a nest. and i got frontpoint security. in top 5 for security and youre not getting shafted like with other companies. You buy your own equipment so monthly is significantly down too. ANd we get to pick what we want. installed a smart door lock with optional key and code entry. the frontpoint arrives today and installing all the door and window stuffs, fire detector etc. ordering a smart light today to have at front and rear of house so wehen we leave we can do turn off and on at leisure. all a bit pricey but the features make the wife happy (thats important right?)

as for resale? in my honest opinion, things dont have to work as labeled for this generations buyers to want it. logic is out the window and as long as your marketing is top notch, and the aestetics are pleasing, and it has a smart tech feature - they want it.
 
FWIW I looked into putting smart tstats in rental properties ~1.5 years ago.
I sent an email to my lawyer who does all my docs and asked if I could put some language in there specifically regarding the tstat if it was destroyed or potentially allowing me to control it in certain circumstances.
He IMMEDIATELY called me and said "Dont do it or find a new lawyer"...lol and I've known this dude 30 years.

His concern was more the liability of a potential privacy/hack. Even though it wouldnt be your fault jurys are dumb was his advice.
YMMV but Id at least ask the question or have language to CYA since you are a licensed GC and this is a business transaction etc.
 
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