So how is it going to end?

1-tonmudder said:
I agree and wasn't suggesting a boots on the ground kinda thing more like a bomb in the air.
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I see. I think we would have to get to a cold war status again. I think we have a pretty good system that would allow us to shoot down disable any thing shot at us. Unless it was a short range missile.

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Loganwayne said:
I see. I think we would have to get to a cold war status again. I think we have a pretty good system that would allow us to shoot down disable any thing shot at us. Unless it was a short range missile.

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If you haven't already done so, find and read One Second After by William R. Forstchen. Sets up a very plausible scenario that would make the U.S. a third world country in a matter of days. Takes place right here in NC too. VERY interesting read and it makes me want to make sure I learn everything I can about early VW motors (not susceptible to EMP)
 
I hear folks talk about a EMP killing all the electronics in our modern cars and how you need a pre 90's car that will run.That don't make much sence to me cause ,unless you've stocked pile 100's of gallons of gas and have a way to keep it good your gonna have to get it out of the tank at the station and that requires ELECTRICITY to pump it.:rolleyes:
 
1-tonmudder said:
I hear folks talk about a EMP killing all the electronics in our modern cars and how you need a pre 90's car that will run.That don't make much sence to me cause ,unless you've stocked pile 100's of gallons of gas and have a way to keep it good your gonna have to get it out of the tank at the station and that requires ELECTRICITY to pump it.:rolleyes:
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Actually, that's easy.... hand drawn pump. I had one in Michigan for when the power would go out for days at a time and I'd have to keep the sump pump drained out. Also, as in the book, they go around and siphon all the gas out of all the cars to use in the VW's and vintage cars they get to work.

I'm always fascinated by a good Post-Apocalyptic story. Amazes me that in the show Revolution and Walking Dead for example, you don't see many bicycles nor wind power. Seems like a no-brainer.
 
If an EMP hits, I'll just finish my TJ and drive it around. You know it will still be sitting on jackstands when the day comes, and EMP should be no match for a steel shell that can block out cell service, WiFi, and my wife's hollerin.
 
If an EMP hits, you will need an old manual transmission diesel. Something that can run on NO electrical and can be roll started. Wouldn't an EMP fry starters and alternators? Specifically voltage regulators in alternators. A starter may be fine, but without an alt, how many starts would you get?
 
sgtbriangreen said:
Wouldn't an EMP fry starters and alternators? Specifically voltage regulators in alternators.
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You'd think...especially with all the movie hype. But no real world testing to confirm that's what actually takes place to a vehicle in the event of an EMP or solar flare. There's lots of speculation and belief that as long as the electronics are OFF with no current, it could be as simple as restarting after an EMP. Vehicles with constantly energized control modules though may pop a brain. That would leave you stranded for sure. But the blanket statement of "You have to have a mechanical diesel in order to drive after a nuke" isn't a scientifically valid statement.
 
Going Home series by A. American is a great read. It is a series based on a post EMP detonation world and how a group of people survived. I finished the series in a matter of weeks and I haven't read a non-automotive themed book since high school.

How do I think it'll end? I have no clue. I'll just keep living my life, enjoying everyday the best I can and putting away enough to survive until i no longer care to (if it gets THAT bad)

With that said, when's the next wheeling trip? Gotta have priorities!
 
CasterTroy said:
You'd think...especially with all the movie hype. But no real world testing to confirm that's what actually takes place to a vehicle in the event of an EMP or solar flare. There's lots of speculation and belief that as long as the electronics are OFF with no current, it could be as simple as restarting after an EMP. Vehicles with constantly energized control modules though may pop a brain. That would leave you stranded for sure. But the blanket statement of "You have to have a mechanical diesel in order to drive after a nuke" isn't a scientifically valid statement.
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Bingo.
I like how so many people here are worried about an EMP yet clearly have no idea how they work. Even though we have so many very smart engineers.
All an EMP does is create a large current through devices for a very momentary period of time. The only way said device is damaged is if the current is enough to can a ground or short of some kind due to being beyond the current-carrying capacity of the materials. So - yes tiny little circuits that have very very small wires - e.g. microchips - can be damaged. Especially if they are currently carrying electricity (e.g. "on"). But larger-current carrying circuits, like starter, plug wires, hell most 18+ga wires on vehicles would require a HUGE magnetic field to induce enough current to damage them. And by huge I'm talking like MRI machine kinds of levels.
Now in order for "the whole country" - or even some small region of it - or even a single town - to be affected by at that level, the source would have to be ridiculous. And at that kind of level, us biological creatures will have much bigger problems than your car not starting - if your whole brain were exposed to that level of field all simultaneously you'd end up having seizures at least and permanent damage at worse.
Go look up TMS (Transcranial magnetic stimulation). Popular technique for inducing and interrupting brain activity.
Think about this - how do heart defibrillators work? Yes that's right. Same thing.

Trust me - a wide-scale EMP is no more of a problem for societal collapse than being invaded by laser-wielding aliens. They can be great "tools" In a focused sense but nothing like in the holocaust movies.
 
Interesting thread...

This subject really is not new!

‘We have fallen upon evil times, politics is corrupt and the social fabric is fraying.’
inscribed on a stone in a museum in Constantinople dated from ancient Chaldea, 3,800 BC!

This...and hundreds of other quotes about the end of civilization since! Lets start a thread of quotes about how 'society has been ending' for thousands of years!


It is gonna end..and it will restart. Nothing we do will affect this ultimate outcome. I ain't buggin' out. I ain't building a shelter. I ain't stocking ammo, I ain't gonna live in fear.

I refuse to live out the last third, (I hope, at least 'third'!), of my life worrying about how its gonna end and what I'm gonna do about it!


To paraphrase Jody...Lets wheel!
 
RatLabGuy said:
Bingo.
I like how so many people here are worried about an EMP yet clearly have no idea how they work. Even though we have so many very smart engineers.
All an EMP does is create a large current through devices for a very momentary period of time. The only way said device is damaged is if the current is enough to can a ground or short of some kind due to being beyond the current-carrying capacity of the materials. So - yes tiny little circuits that have very very small wires - e.g. microchips - can be damaged. Especially if they are currently carrying electricity (e.g. "on"). But larger-current carrying circuits, like starter, plug wires, hell most 18+ga wires on vehicles would require a HUGE magnetic field to induce enough current to damage them. And by huge I'm talking like MRI machine kinds of levels.
Now in order for "the whole country" - or even some small region of it - or even a single town - to be affected by at that level, the source would have to be ridiculous. And at that kind of level, us biological creatures will have much bigger problems than your car not starting - if your whole brain were exposed to that level of field all simultaneously you'd end up having seizures at least and permanent damage at worse.
Go look up TMS (Transcranial magnetic stimulation). Popular technique for inducing and interrupting brain activity.
Think about this - how do heart defibrillators work? Yes that's right. Same thing.

Trust me - a wide-scale EMP is no more of a problem for societal collapse than being invaded by laser-wielding aliens. They can be great "tools" In a focused sense but nothing like in the holocaust movies.
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Thank you.
I've been biting my tongue to reply because I didnt want to nerd out on this.

Succinctly put, any EMP that is strong enough to render every automobile useless in a given area will also render all the humans dead.
I mean I dont know how many cars worked in Hiroshima on 8/7/45 either. An EMP of sufficient scale discussed here would have similar results.


The only real EMP scare would be a series of targeted attacks designed to destroy key metro power distribution grids....That and the resulting nuclear meltdowns could bring chaos...but even then the vehicles would still run.
 
Ron said:
Thank you.
I've been biting my tongue to reply because I didnt want to nerd out on this.

Succinctly put, any EMP that is strong enough to render every automobile useless in a given area will also render all the humans dead.
I mean I dont know how many cars worked in Hiroshima on 8/7/45 either. An EMP of sufficient scale discussed here would have similar results.


The only real EMP scare would be a series of targeted attacks designed to destroy key metro power distribution grids....That and the resulting nuclear meltdowns could bring chaos...but even then the vehicles would still run.
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All I know on the subject:

:)

 
Here's some thoughts...

I doubt EMP would end civilization. There is very little research that has been done to conclusively determine all the things that would definitly be affected.(We stopped atmospheric nuclear testing before we knew much about EMP. So we didnt just keep setting off bombs to test the EMP effects) But, I believe, since "nuclear hardening" works, (that's a pretty simple process), it certainly cant be that hard to protect ones self from EMP!

The solar flare black outs back in the 80s or 90s(?) blacked out most of the northeast. (There was no kind of shielding or any consideration of such an EMP at that time. We are better prepared these days. Cuz we know more about these EMP events.) Even at that time, there was only a short time before power was restored. Yea, the worst parts of the inner cities rioted, as they always do about any kind of disruption in their routine! I doubt there is any weapon that could black out as large an area as those solar storms did then. BTW those solar storms didnt affect watches and cars. Apparently EMP relies on larger cuircuts, and good 'antennas" to affect things. That is to say... a good conductor into an active electron flow. So, a car that isnt running probably would suffer no effects And automobile ECUs are protected against electronic interference so thay may not be affected, especially if they arent running!


So there might be some inconvenience if this happens. Keep a cooler handy for the Beer!

The power will be back on soon. ;)
 
ol'Jeeps said:
I ain't gonna live in fear.
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While I agree wholeheartedly with you. The one thing I do NOT live in, is fear. While I DO stock ammo (or did before the boating accident) it's for times that the gubment decides to create shortages and wholesalers decide to gouge (sandyhook) and while I do have a bag, it's really no more than I would take out with me if we were wheeling miles from civilization in preparation for having to stay out on the trail for days if there were a catastrophic failure. And I've chosen vehicles that can get me where I need to be should something strange occur (like getting to WCU to bring my boy home in a blizzard or zombie apoc) but I don't have plans to buy some 5 ton and equip it with a cattleguard and water cannon to blast zombies out of the road...though I WOULD like a rancher bumper for my truck for trips to Charlotte (BLM and such)

But fear? Naw man....I LIVE....and I live to what I believe to be the fullest I can, every day (not guaranteed tomorrow) and I am a boyscout...so chances are, if I NEED it, it's near me at all times.
 
CasterTroy said:
I don't have plans to buy some 5 ton and equip it with a cattleguard and water cannon to blast zombies out of the road...though I WOULD like a rancher bumper for my truck for trips to Charlotte (BLM and such)
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But if you NEEDED one, you got a guy, right @Tacoma747 :D
 
If something happens come have any truck you can get. I'm going to the armory and taking a few myself, I can't drive them all. Heck, I need more people to go to the armory with me. Too bad the HEMTT tanker trucks they have aren't full of fuel...
 
Tacoma747 said:
If something happens come have any truck you can get. I'm going to the armory and taking a few myself, I can't drive them all. Heck, I need more people to go to the armory with me. Too bad the HEMTT tanker trucks they have aren't full of fuel...
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Looks like I am heading your way if something ever get goes down

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