Taxpayers?

BTW the next bracket is where they FAWK you...instead of increasing from 10-15% (a 50% jump) it increases from 15-25% (a 67% jump)

This is the whole middle class gets reamed argument. The single most punitive step in the tax code is when a married couple eclipses $72,500 combined.

In most areas of the country $72.5k split between a family of 4 is scraping....here in the Carolinas its doable, but tough...but take that to NJ or So Cal for example and folks have a hard time eating.
 
But let me be Captain obvious here...Why would you not want to work and supplement her income other than the obvious reasons. I believe this is whats wrong with this country we have lost our ambition.
 
SHE DIDNT EARN LESS. SHE KEPT A SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF HER EARNINGS.

Working more and earning less would mean her actual paycheck DECREASED.


Well, the semantics make me feel much better. Thanks.
 
If you think the difference is only semantics...I quit.

If you dont see a material difference between those two I think the coloquial expression is "If I continue you will drag me to your level and beat me with experience."
 
But let me be Captain obvious here...Why would you not want to work and supplement her income other than the obvious reasons. I believe this is whats wrong with this country we have lost our ambition.


You didn't happen to read my first post, did you? I lost my job a little over 3 years ago. At that point, I was working on average 60 hours a week for a set salary plus commission. This afforded us a decent life, but my wife need to work an additional 10 hours a week on average to get us to where we were comfortable. We live a pretty modest life - we own our cars outright, we live in a small home in a relatively small town. When I lost my job, we agreed that she would go to work full time and I would stay home with the kids (at that point two at home, one in school). She now works half the time I did and can spend that time with the kids and I get to spend 100% of my day with the kids instead of working even the 10 hours she was. Win win. The kids get to see both of us a LOT more than they used to and we make about the same money as we did before.

As far as ambition, I do build websites and to graphic design work on the side, but it's not much and I can only work at night and during naps. I currently have about a dozen websites as well as some freelance work that I do. I spread my work out so that I don't get too overwhelmed with any of it and my customers understand that I am a dad first.

Aside from that, sitting by the pool all day drinking mimosas and eating bon bons can get boring, so every once in a while, I slum it with gubment cheese and free milk suckled from the teet of the American working class...
 
Here's the only rub (at least for me). I am a stay-at-home dad by choice

Did I miss something? We would all love to stay at home but some of us choose to work to provide a financial pillow and some of us have to work to put bread on the table. Either way we work. Kudos to you that you get to stay at home. Maybe I am old fashioned but I think men should work. Carry on and dont mind me.
 
Did I miss something? We would all love to stay at home but some of us choose to work to provide a financial pillow and some of us have to work to put bread on the table. Either way we work. Kudos to you that you get to stay at home. Maybe I am old fashioned but I think men should work. Carry on and dont mind me.
Dude. You have fired off what, a dozen posts back and forth on NC4x4 board while you are at work and I'm the deadbeat lacking ambition not helping to put bread on the table?!?!?
 
Dude. You have fired off what, a dozen posts back and forth on NC4x4 board while you are at work and I'm the deadbeat lacking ambition not helping to put bread on the table?!?!?
Who the fuck said I was at work? Butthurt much? I stated my opinion, that is all. Don't like hearing opinions stay off the internet.
 
Who the fuck said I was at work? Butthurt much? I stated my opinion, that is all. Don't like hearing opinions stay off the internet.
Fair enough. Thing is yes I choose to stay home because say I take them up on the free child care (free stuff is usually worth exactly what you pay for it) and go back to work part time, by your logic I'm making money and shouldn't get it free, so paying for childcare reduces my income to less than minimum wage. To work that much for that little difference in income doesn't make a lot of sense. Then to have someone else essentially raising your child when you are perfectly capable of doing so for that little difference makes even less sense
 
so paying for childcare reduces my income to less than minimum wage. To work that much for that little difference in income doesn't make a lot of sense.


After this I am out of this but you do realize thats what the majority of America does.
 
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Sometimes it is more economical to stay home and take care of your own rather to pay for childcare out of pocket. That is a choice you have to make. My opinion on that is; if you can potentially make more than the childcare costs, you should be working. reason #1, children need to be around other children. They need to be learning as early as possible and they do not need to start public schools having never been allowed to spend a lot of time with other kids. #2, financial stability.
 
For whatever its worth.
I totally applaud the decision to sacrifice possessions to stay home and personally raise your child/children.

We made the same choice years ago (she stayed home not I) and have never once regretted it. Sure we could have had a bigger house, newer car, more toys etc...but none of that is more important than our children...all in all we have done quite well.

My only contention was with the erronious statement that she worked more and MADE less. That is a line thrown around often that gets shot down by facts and makes the whole progrssive tax argument get discounted
 
After this I am out of this but you do realize thats what they majority of America does.


And you realize America is pretty much alone globally in this phenomenon.

When is enough money enough. When is enough "stuff" enough.

You can always make more.

As long as someone is self sufficient I have no opinion on how much they work or their life style of choice. Once they approach me with their hand out I develop an opinion.
 
Again, I choose to stay home, but I'm not about to ask for a handout to do so. I also agree that kids need interaction with other kids (I've seen several home schooled kids that have absolutely no social skills whatsoever), but mine do interact well with other kids at church and other things - I just don't see the need to put him in a day care for low income families "just because". Paid daycare is expensive and again, that raises the threshold of where my income would have to be to justify it. Either way, even when my youngest goes to school in a year and a half, I still plan on only working part time during school hours. I like to be able to pick my kids up from school every day. Again, that's a choice that I make so that mine is the face they see.

I agree that the majority of America is dual income families and that phenomenon has started in the past 40 years. (roughly my lifetime) Where has this mentality gotten us (the US)? Crime is up, divorce is up, suicide is up, insurmountable debt is up, etc.

One of my kids goes to a competition cheerleading gym here. It's a luxury that we budget for because it's something that she wants to do. When I take her to practice, I sit there with other parents most of which are dual income families. Most of the time, they come flying in because the practice starts at 5:45 and they are shoveling fast food in their kids faces because they haven't even been home from work - they just picked their kids up from the after-school program and came right to practice. I've already fed my kids a home cooked meal that we sat at a table to eat. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to drive a shiny Lexus like the other parents, but the lack of a car payment takes the sting out of not having a nice shiny new car in the driveway.

If they want to change things in government, lets start with entitlement programs.... I'm the first to say get rid of or reduce the heck out of them. As a married couple with insurance, on average, our out of pocket expenses to have our kids was $4000. My step-daughter who had a child out of wed-lock when she was 18 was scooped up under Medicaid and the entire cost was covered - epidural and all. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it did, because I'd have been on the hook for it because the baby-daddy didn't contribute a thing birth to death of that child, but it's a systemic problem. She wasn't asked if she wanted Medicaid, she was told she had to go on it. I'm absolutely sure she wasn't the only one in this situation....

Anyway, I did mis-speak, Ron - you are right. Her paycheck was NOT in fact less after working more hours, her effective hourly wage went down for those hours. The net effect is still the same, though - if the 31st and 32nd and 33rd hour are paid at half your normal wage, it takes the incentive to work longer away.

Completely off topic, but I also disagree with raising the minimum wage to $10 an hour (or whatever). It should go up with a cost of living allowance, but not just an arbitrary amount. By raising the minimum wage to $10 an hour, then those who were making $10 an hour before will feel like they deserve $12 an hour and on up the pipeline.
 
Completely off topic, but I also disagree with raising the minimum wage to $10 an hour (or whatever). It should go up with a cost of living allowance, but not just an arbitrary amount. By raising the minimum wage to $10 an hour, then those who were making $10 an hour before will feel like they deserve $12 an hour and on up the pipeline.


I agree with most everything untl here.
I am in favor of abolishing the minimum wage. Let capitalism runs its course and a fair wage structure will be established.
 
I agree with most everything untl here.
I am in favor of abolishing the minimum wage. Let capitalism runs its course and a fair wage structure will be established.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but do you think that capitalism has the where-with-all to pay fairly a disabled person, or an uneducated person? A teenager? You have to have some ground rule, but I agree, the marketplace can take care of WAY more than the government ever will (just look at Obamacare - err.... the Abominable Care Act)
 
I'm not disagreeing with you, but do you think that capitalism has the where-with-all to pay fairly a disabled person, or an uneducated person? A teenager? You have to have some ground rule, but I agree, the marketplace can take care of WAY more than the government ever will (just look at Obamacare - err.... the Abominable Care Act)


Several seprate different issues there to me.
Regarding disabled people - In my ideolistic society that is up to the community (I.E. friends, family church) to handle. If we all had more free money not taken awya by an inefficient government we could all do more to help.

Uneducated? Pay them as little as you can. It will incentivie them further to get educated and improve themselves OR lower the overall cost of doing business. Either way society wins.

A teenager? Again. Pay them what you can. If the pay isnt worth their time they wont work.

It becomes a simple economics supply and demand issue. If a company pays too little no one will work for that amount. Then they will be forced to offer increased wages to staff their business. All of a sudden free market principles will start applying. Maybe I will work at McDonalds for $5/hr if they provide uniforms and free meals beause Burger King pays $7/hr but I have to buy my whopper and ruin my school clothes.
 
I'm not disagreeing with you, but do you think that capitalism has the where-with-all to pay fairly a disabled person, or an uneducated person? A teenager? You have to have some ground rule, but I agree, the marketplace can take care of WAY more than the government ever will (just look at Obamacare - err.... the Abominable Care Act)

I'm with Ron on his points.

I'd love to donate more to disabled people, veterans, ronald mcdonald house, st. judes, etc...but considering .gov takes $1,000 PER PAYCHECK from me, it kind of limits how much I'm willing to give, and I think most people that are willing to give in the first place feel the same way, not the ones that can't afford to now, but would if that chunk wasn't taken out of their check.

Uneducated...why should we reward them, or allow them to keep floating along and carry them if they're not willing to help themselves. Stupid should hurt. Disclaimer...uneducated to me means apathy toward learning, not, not having a 4 year degree.

Teens...the best lesson I learned in life was working on a farm for $5/hr and in a machine shop for $7/hr...those wages wouldn't cut it for the things I wanted. So I could either work hard and be promoted for more money, or work hard in my studies to get a cushy desk job.

Perfect example (in Salisbury anyway)...look at the fast food chains. Chic-Fil-A pays about $4 more an hour than the rest, the quality of personnel is higher, quality of service is higher, overall customer experience is higher. I'm all for selective hiring and profiling...it usually works. Hell, even look at the difference between a regular run of the mill McDonald's vs. the one across the street from the Biltmore...completely different environment. Now do you really think those places would get the same kind of quality if they were paying the same and had the incentive structure as the average Taco Bell. I don't think so.
 
Yup I'm w/ Rom and Mangler.
My wife has a college degree and taught full time for a decade. Right now she works only ~10 hrs a week, so she can be at home w/ the kids in the afternoons.
We're probably taking a $30-40k/year "hit" on that. But it's our choice, we're doing OK w/o it and I consider the value worth it.

I also take contention with the idea that if you;re not employed, you're not a "contributor to society" and shouldn't get to vote. That's bullshit.

I know LOTS of stay at home Moms, and Dads, who do a shitpile to be part of society - more than a lot of people who work for a paycheck.
They volunteer in the schools, they run Scouts, sports clubs, science fairs, run the local libraries, museums, build equipment for the parks, run homeless shelter, run fundraisers for firefighters, hell the people who run campaigns for local officials are typically unpaid volunteers, in small towns even the officials themselves may not get a paycheck.
Or what about the guy that has a really successful business, and sells it and retires early? That guy is a bum, huh? Bullshit. He did his part already. And the money he invests now is keeping other people in business.

I DO however think there should be an annual community service requirement. Either 26 hrs a year (thats just 30 mins a week or 1/2 week a year) OR employment.
 
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BTW Mangler here is the nature of your paycheck flip-flopping tax rate problem.

I think you are confusing what is automatically withheld, with what is actually owed by the end of the year.
By law, teh employer MUST withhold taxes at a rate that is an estimate of what will be owed to the IRS.
There is a standard formula for what that is, based on the amount paid.

As posted in teh table above, the rate goes up as you cross brackets.
Now in any one paycheck, they are doing teh estimate based on what is in THAT PAYCHECK.
So if week 1 you work at a rate that WOULD BE just under $60k (Ron example) the withholding will be one amount.
But if in Week 2 it is slightly more, so that if extrapolated to a whole year it predicts $90k, the witholding will be a lot more - AND most accounting programs recognize this is more than the previous paycheck and assume you have bee underpaying, so it will withold even more to ensure it is right by teh end of year (b/c it thinks you just bumped from 60k to 90k).
Make sense?
But at the end of the year it dosn't matter, you'll file based on the total for the year. So you'll get all that $$ back.

This often happens to folks, every check is exactly the same rate, then they get a 1-time bonus and the withholding is huge.
 
I agree with most everything untl here.
I am in favor of abolishing the minimum wage. Let capitalism runs its course and a fair wage structure will be established.

I mostly agree, but it becomes a problem with jobs in fields where capitolism isn't really in action - like regulated industries, certain public sector jobs and internships.
 
Not much to say about taxes, but mostly a response to those of you that think it's better to work and pay someone to raise your children..Also, I am not bashing those that do. Its just not the fit we choose at our house.

My wife is a stay at home mom. I am self employed.
My wife left the banking industry to raise our children until the school age. Sure we often miss that nearly 30 grand she would be making, but I tell ya this.

When I open my birthday card and my 3 year old has written happy birthday daddy and signed her own name, no matter how sloppy her writing is...I see it being well worth the sacrifices we have made. Both of my children thrive because their mom has been their greatest example. Not some over worked over, stressed daycare worker.(no offense meant) My kids interact with other kids all the time. Church,the ymca,youth sports etc...Maycee is in the 3rd grade and is making A's and B's. Her teacher says that her attitude,actions and work ethics, and maturity are something that we should be very proud of.

Even when my work slows down, and the bills pile up...I wouldn't change a thing.

We are not rich in money by any perspective, but, we are rich in family and values.

That said...I cant wait until Ella gets in school,and my wife re enters the work force, so I can squirrel more of my income into my toys.:lol: I'm almost 40 and I've been dreaming of a ''mid life crisis'' build.
 
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