The Garden Thread

We did straw bales a couple years when we first moved... kept us in flush in tomatoes, squash, & zucchini (nothing else did very well)

Last year, we began working the PO's small (80'x40') "garden" plot up by the shop.
Unknown how long it sat unused (as a garden) vs. large enough space to spin truck/trailer around in... but it was *HARD*
A few (dozen) trips over it with the cultivator loosened it... many bags of lime, a few tons of horse waste, some carbon, and last falls clover cover have it looking much better than "red dirt" (just got the soil sample boxes to send to VT)
We have 2 other spots that will see limited planting... a terrace near the crest of a field for will get flowers for the bees and an area near a creek bottom (typically is too soggy for the zero-turn) will get more tomatoes & cucumbers...

The big question will be what fencing to use around the garden to hinder the deer? (ain't going to stop them, just want to slow them down)
I've got 20 - 7' T-posts (sourced LAST year when they were available 🙄 ), so thinking 6' tall fencing
I like the sturdiness of wire, but hate the thought of taking it down (necessary to run the tractor thru it) and not sure plastic like "bird fence" is heavy enough, nor is "snow fence" small enough to keep out the rabbits...
Thinking maybe a hybrid approach with plastics and some 12" tall chicken wire around the base?

I hear the trick for deer is 2 fences of different heights that are spaced a few feet apart. They have a hard time judging the depth and wont try to jump it.

I have also seen folks claim that these "red eye" things work to keep them away: Amazon product ASIN B08T9BSQ2L.
 
I hear the trick for deer is 2 fences of different heights that are spaced a few feet apart. They have a hard time judging the depth and wont try to jump it.

I have also seen folks claim that these "red eye" things work to keep them away: Amazon product ASIN B08T9BSQ2L.
Yeap, have seen/read the same about 2 rows, just not sure we have the space for that (still use the perimeter to turn around in)... the majority around here either have have some combo of ag/plastic fencing or charged wire. The old folks swear lots of shiny/moving things (can lids, CDs, flagging tape, etc.) will work, but have my doubts.

I used a homemade "red eye" to keep the varmints away from chickens years ago, but looks like they come WAY down in price since then...
 
A few years ago, my kids brought potato plants home from school. They had dropped seed potato chunks in some peat pots I guess, let them germinate and grow for a few weeks. At home, we popped them in the tilled garden, threw an old bald tire around each plant. As they got taller, we added dirt and another tire, repeated this cycle a few times. At the end of the season, they were 3-4 tires tall, and full of potatoes, it was awesome.
 
that does look interesting, but my guess is they dont have to fight with bermuda grass.


I am with Drew. Trying to determine the best way to build raised beds, so that I can stop spending time pulling grass from my garden.
a cultivator set right works wonders until the plants are too tall. I use Glyphosate very carefully when the odd grass pops up. A paint brush and an old coffee can with Glyphosate mix is safe and fairly quick to paint death on weeds. A piece of cardboard as a shield makes low pressure spraying viable.

My friend Bev swears by heavy mulching in smaller gardens to regulate moisture and keep weeds down. I’ve never tried it but the sour straw in that video has my mind turning.
 
We watched that and it worked ok with not much effort but we didn't get their results. Wanting to try again if I can find straw.
Cyd I don’t know any more than the video but did you use spoiled/sour straw?
 
Yeap, have seen/read the same about 2 rows, just not sure we have the space for that (still use the perimeter to turn around in)... the majority around here either have have some combo of ag/plastic fencing or charged wire. The old folks swear lots of shiny/moving things (can lids, CDs, flagging tape, etc.) will work, but have my doubts.

I used a homemade "red eye" to keep the varmints away from chickens years ago, but looks like they come WAY down in price since then...
The two rows of fencing work quite well. I used masons twine on t posts a few years ago when I last had a real garden and I couldn't tell that any deer got in.
 
Meaning you just used multiple strands of mason string (1-2-3) horizontally on each of 2 rows of posts? 🤔
deer have crap depth perception. it really messes with them doing that. you can do it with a high and low sting on the outside fence and about 1.5-2 ft in on the second fence put a single stand in the middle. add some flagging tape every couple of feet so they see it. they may still get in but not enough to make a difference we do this on foot plots all summer long
 
Meaning you just used multiple strands of mason string (1-2-3) horizontally on each of 2 rows of posts? 🤔
Yup. It just freaks them out. It's apparently a thing in professionally designed landscaping. My wife has a degree in landscape design and she learned it in class. I was dubious, but she was right. I tied survey tape every few feet to give it some movement so they could see it. Not sure if that was necessary.

Like @Loganwayne said, they have bad depth perception and with multiple layers they cant figure out how far to jump and are afraid of getting caught in the middle.
 
deer have crap depth perception. it really messes with them doing that. you can do it with a high and low sting on the outside fence and about 1.5-2 ft in on the second fence put a single stand in the middle. add some flagging tape every couple of feet so they see it. they may still get in but not enough to make a difference we do this on foot plots all summer long

Yup. It just freaks them out. It's apparently a thing in professionally designed landscaping. My wife has a degree in landscape design and she learned it in class. I was dubious, but she was right. I tied survey tape every few feet to give it some movement so they could see it. Not sure if that was necessary.

Like @Loganwayne said, they have bad depth perception and with multiple layers they cant figure out how far to jump and are afraid of getting caught in the middle.

I'm convinced (that multiple rolls of masonry string is less $$ than any fencing 🤣 ) and will give it a shot... how far between the 2 rows of posts? A foot or 2?
 
a cultivator set right works wonders until the plants are too tall. I use Glyphosate very carefully when the odd grass pops up. A paint brush and an old coffee can with Glyphosate mix is safe and fairly quick to paint death on weeds. A piece of cardboard as a shield makes low pressure spraying viable.

My friend Bev swears by heavy mulching in smaller gardens to regulate moisture and keep weeds down. I’ve never tried it but the sour straw in that video has my mind turning.
The mulching and cardboard layers do help, for a while. Most weeds I do not have an issue with, but mid-summer, the bermuda takes over, when the plants are tall, and you have to weed multiple times a day to stay on top of it. If I was better at growing grass, I would sow the whole area in fescue/clover/vetch/etc to keep the bermuda at bay, and then cut in the rows later.
 
Rain sure made the poopy dirt look great

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I broke ground for my neighbor’s new garden plot today. I turned it with the plow and ran the disc over it. We have a dump load of cow poop to mix in it tomorrow.

I ran the disc over mine again. Each time the soil seems to get better and better. I hope the vegetables are epic this year.
 
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A few years ago, my kids brought potato plants home from school. They had dropped seed potato chunks in some peat pots I guess, let them germinate and grow for a few weeks. At home, we popped them in the tilled garden, threw an old bald tire around each plant. As they got taller, we added dirt and another tire, repeated this cycle a few times. At the end of the season, they were 3-4 tires tall, and full of potatoes, it was awesome.
This is a great trick to boost the plant nutrients exclusively. We're going to try this next week as the truck is getting a new set of nitto tires and brake pads.
 
Just got a tractor and need a little knowledge.
Ok, so I've never done a garden other than a small one with a manual tiller.
What 3 point implements will I need? I was thinking a ripper to remove rocks etc., Then a plow to turn over ground, then a disc.
Am I close to right😕
I doubt it so what steps to take when putting a garden on undisturbed ground?
Thanks
 
Just got a tractor and need a little knowledge.
Ok, so I've never done a garden other than a small one with a manual tiller.
What 3 point implements will I need? I was thinking a ripper to remove rocks etc., Then a plow to turn over ground, then a disc.
Am I close to right😕
I doubt it so what steps to take when putting a garden on undisturbed ground?
Thanks
Plow it let it dry out a day or 2 and then disc. Some type of drag is nice sometimes to smooth it back out.
And a bedder makes things way easier for making rows. Not sure how wide your tractor is, we use a little farmall cub to lay out the rows.
 
Just got a tractor and need a little knowledge.
Ok, so I've never done a garden other than a small one with a manual tiller.
What 3 point implements will I need? I was thinking a ripper to remove rocks etc., Then a plow to turn over ground, then a disc.
Am I close to right😕
I doubt it so what steps to take when putting a garden on undisturbed ground?
Thanks
depending on how big your tractor is you could get a tiller attachment and till it several times and have a decent plot. if you can take the top layer of grass off you will have less weeds. either way the first few will be weeds.
 
Weeds are your friends. They turn on and grow due specifically to an excess or deficient nutrient. You can tactically target that with a diverse variety cover crop to outperform the weeds.
 
Thanks all. Should I spread some lime on the area? If so, at what point?
Also we have lots of rabbit and goat droppings. Are both good for fertilizer?
 
Thanks all. Should I spread some lime on the area? If so, at what point?
Also we have lots of rabbit and goat droppings. Are both good for fertilizer?
The local ag extension office should office free or cheap soil test kits start there and see what your soil needs.
Which also depends on what your planting
 
Just got a tractor and need a little knowledge.
Ok, so I've never done a garden other than a small one with a manual tiller.
What 3 point implements will I need? I was thinking a ripper to remove rocks etc., Then a plow to turn over ground, then a disc.
Am I close to right😕
I doubt it so what steps to take when putting a garden on undisturbed ground?
Thanks
The best way is to probably use a small dozer with a ripper.
 
Thanks all. Should I spread some lime on the area? If so, at what point?
Also we have lots of rabbit and goat droppings. Are both good for fertilizer?

Research the theory of NPK. Its not old. It coincidently coincided with helping chemical companies relabel war chemicals....
The nitrogen requirements of plants is nearly on par with some micronutrients. Your calcium and your phosphate requirements completely dwarf, and sadly are most ignored.
One thing you need to always remember about manure. Its everything the animal got too much of, wasn't supposed to get, etc. I have done analysis on many manures. Ususally they are all very high in sulfur, salt and aluminum. In many cases it was higher in sodium than NO2 or NH3. You don't need manure unless you know you need nitrogen. Even then is best composted firsted to start the nitrogen cycle. Specifically then, you need to know if you are low in NO3 nitrate (vegetative) or NH4 ammonical (flowering) nitrogen. You google the capability of worm/biology in the soil in the nitrogen cycle you will quickly find out most if not all nitrogen sources are causing more problem than help. They introduce excesses of sodium, sulfur or aluminum. God forbid urea is used.

If you get a test done with a local Ag extension office or any garden variety lab. You need to understand they are doing a HCL test. HCL acid breaks down the entire sample and tells you everything that is there. Not if it is available (lockup, incorrect ionic charge, etc). Additionally the HCL breaks down a portion of the sample, and some nutrients get chemically micronized below the detection limits. To offset this very big problem, some states and commercial farms will use citrc acid testing to give a light acid test reading. There are other more targeted methods too. Essentially, you need to know more than just what is there - you need to know what is available. You can have sufficient calcium, but if the pH is too high because the salts are too high - your plants WILL be calcium deficient. If you moly is zero, it will inhibit nitrogen uptake no matter how much nitrogen you have in the soil.

in over 12 years of reading these tests. I can tell you, lime / dolomite / gypsum are the worst calcium choices that can be made. Lime is Ca2+. Its ionically positive, and the plant requires negative. Now your lime has to undergo lengthy CEC exchange to become available. This is why the idoicy of selling sea salt for the field can happen, the negative salt helps to give that Calcium a rise in availability and your first cutting shoots up in veg growth. Then the problem of too much salt sets in, and you are now worse off. Here come the pests. Too much salt equals a rise in plant sap ph which rings the dinner bell for pests. Too much sulfur lowers the plant sap ph and here comes the disease. Aluminum can mimic every problem, its the next plague in agriculture. One of the biggest side effects of Aluminum is abortion of the fruit. Dolomite is a magnesium product, not calcium product. Gypsum is a sulfur product, not a calcium product. For every input you use, you need to consider what else is in it - and are you going to cause an excess? For example. Your sulfur maximum availability is 2 ppm in the soil. Your long term goal for calcium would be 6,000ppm. Most people come with 500-1500ppm of calcium. If you used gypsum to get there (calcium sulfate), what do you think is going to happen to your sulfur levels? Extreme excess = disease.

If I can summarize. At the end of every year, your check book / receipts should read from greatest to least: Calcium, Phosphate, Silica, Carbon, Potassium, Nitrogen. (this isn't addressing micronutrients or iodine or mag, etc yet)
If you are tending a lawn. Know this. Calcium drives your vegetative growth. Potassium drives your reproduction (flower, seed, fruit). If you put out too much available potassium at the beginning of the year, you make available to the plant sap too much potassium. It hinders your veg growth. Where is the fruit/seed or flower on your lawn? None. Your potassium requirements on a lawn are about one to two ppm (compare that to your iron requirements of 1-2 ppm). Atmosphereic potassium exchange can keep up with a pure veg only crop usually. So adhere to your veg vs flower cycles when amending nutrients.

I would keep on hand:

Aragonite (Negative Charged and carries a lot of nitrifying bacteria)
Calcium Phosphate aka Soft Rock Phosphate
Calcium Silicate (its a silica product, not a ca product)
Carbon - Biochar (low ash)
Be very careful about your Potassium sources. Kelp = high sodium. You can drive your flower cycle with foliar feeding potassium
Nitrogen - Organic Nitrogen (not certified organic, means plant based. Not ammonia or nitrate or urea). This can then be converted to NH4 or NO3 as the soil requires for the nitrogen cycle.
 
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