Tobacco age now 21

ManglerYJ said:
There is a lot of information out there that says contradicting stuff, which is the problem. I've seen some places say that she "can" stay on it (my option), and other that say Dependents under 26 have to be offered coverage on plans offered by large employers. Obamacare is a cluster*#$@ of half-ass law and confusing mandate. It pisses me off that it was ram-rodded through congress without so much as a read-through and one of the biggest lies of all time "If you want to keep your doctor, you can keep your doctor" was never an "impeachable offense" like everything Trump seems to do.
Click to expand...

My understanding, no lawyer of course so do your own research....insurance companies HAVE to allow you to insure your daughter until she is 26 if she isnt otherwise insured, you do NOT have to insure her after 18. they just have to allow you to if you choose.


Now you mention step daughter, which adds another layer. The divorce decree could require her mom to provide insurance until...well until anything the two parties legally agreed to. If the divorce decree requires you to insure until she is out of college, for example, then you could (financially) be on the hook whether or not the insurance plan allowed it or not.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Here are some interesting tidbits.
- The FDA is exerting control over the sale of the product.... like it does any other drug or thing they have deemed harmful. They do not have the ability, though, to restrict USE. So technically, Federal law doesn't permit the use of tobacco under 21, only the sale of it. Once its in your hands the FDA has no authority. The state might but thats a separate issue.

- I know in most States that have matching laws, there is an exemption for active duty military. So you can still buy with a military ID under 21.
That creates an interesting twist in the statement, "I can fight and die for my country but not buy cigarettes." b/c it's technically not true.
Need to confirm whether this exemption exists at the Fed level.

I do agree w/ most that this is an overreach on behalf of FDA powers, but I can see the logic of how it is under their power to do so.
Click to expand...

I just saw a sign posted at the Food Lion. It said 21 and older INCLUDING military.
 
Last edited:
I dunno but if I was in that 18-20 age group that can no longer buy cigarettes and I smoked I would have bought a bunch of cartons before they changed the age.
 
Ron said:
My understanding, no lawyer of course so do your own research....insurance companies HAVE to allow you to insure your daughter until she is 26 if she isnt otherwise insured, you do NOT have to insure her after 18. they just have to allow you to if you choose.


Now you mention step daughter, which adds another layer. The divorce decree could require her mom to provide insurance until...well until anything the two parties legally agreed to. If the divorce decree requires you to insure until she is out of college, for example, then you could (financially) be on the hook whether or not the insurance plan allowed it or not.
Click to expand...
This.
You are only beholden to provide insurance to a minor. Period.
However you are also obligated to honor any divorce agreement that was signed, and if it includes agreement to pay insurance through college or whatever, then you're stuck unless you renegotiate the agreement.
But that's different from a law requiring you to pay.
 
F990346F-A0E4-4420-BAB5-50F45D3D71AE.jpeg
 
Went in the gas station tonight. Young feller in front of me requested 2 packs of Menthols. Clerk got em out, kid showed ID, clerk said you gotta be 21 now, kid said some profanity and walked out. Of course this was all after waiting on the first 2 people to buy lottery tickets and waste 5 minutes of my life. Reminded me why I insist on going to stations with pay at the pump.
 
ManglerYJ said:
The same generation that ate Tide Pods is now complaining that they can't smoke.
Click to expand...
This comment hits at the heart of the issue. As long as we hold reasonable citizens accountable for the lowest common denominator we will drive down the road to the Nanny State. We will also make laws that will be ignored by rational people and leave everyone breaking the law and thinking it's normal...
 
Let me make sure I get this right.... purchase of tobacco under age is illegal or whatever the phrase is. But possession and use under 21 but over 18 is legal. Is this correct?

If so, I found a new part time job. Hang out at gas stations and be a “straw buyer”
 
Southern_Transplant said:
This comment hits at the heart of the issue. As long as we hold reasonable citizens accountable for the lowest common denominator we will drive down the road to the Nanny State. We will also make laws that will be ignored by rational people and leave everyone breaking the law and thinking it's normal...
Click to expand...


If you ever want to see exactly how far down that road we could go, just visit a Wal-Mart.
 
Futbalfantic said:
Let me make sure I get this right.... purchase of tobacco under age is illegal or whatever the phrase is. But possession and use under 21 but over 18 is legal. Is this correct?

If so, I found a new part time job. Hang out at gas stations and be a “straw buyer”
Click to expand...
Qt in indian land after the middle school lets out and a trunk full of juul and you will be a rich man. Financially rich. Maybe not morally rich but who's counting those coins?
 
ManglerYJ said:
The same generation that ate Tide Pods is now complaining that they can't smoke.
Click to expand...
Pretty much.
In some ways, today's kids are much smarter than we were. In other ways, (maturity is one of them) they are dumber.

Personally, I'd raise it ALL to 21, and I'd raise the voting age to at least 30. Or maybe 35 since you have to be that old to run for President, maybe you should be that old to vote for one. Only exception would be active military, they can vote.
 
Pacfanweb said:
Personally, I'd raise it ALL to 21, and I'd raise the voting age to at least 30. Or maybe 35 since you have to be that old to run for President, maybe you should be that old to vote for one. Only exception would be active military, they can vote.
Click to expand...
I definitely agree on flipping the order on personal responsibility and voting responsibility. For me, alcohol, tobacco, fire arms, and driving could all by set at 18 and voting following at 21.

It's interesting how most of Europe can have a drinking age of 16 and still have cigarette machines on street corners without having higher rates of DUIs, alcoholism, etc. I think it's far better to set realistic laws and then hold people accountable for their personal choices.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
I definitely agree on flipping the order on personal responsibility and voting responsibility. For me, alcohol, tobacco, fire arms, and driving could all by set at 18 and voting following at 21.

It's interesting how most of Europe can have a drinking age of 16 and still have cigarette machines on street corners without having higher rates of DUIs, alcoholism, etc. I think it's far better to set realistic laws and then hold people accountable for their personal choices.
Click to expand...
Most of Europe also has an unrestricted driving age of 18 or higher
 
Southern_Transplant said:
It's interesting how most of Europe can have a drinking age of 16 and still have cigarette machines on street corners without having higher rates of DUIs, alcoholism, etc. I think it's far better to set realistic laws and then hold people accountable for their personal choice
Click to expand...
that's because, it's available & accepted rather than restricted. The restriction draws attention.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
That's true. I don't know if anyone thought it through. But I like the idea of learning to drink alcohol responsibly and THEN letting someone out on the road with a deadly machine.
Click to expand...
Could not agree more.
Sensible exposure and education is way more useful than restriction.
 
tknopp said:
So the only fun things left to look forward to when turning 18 now are buying scratch offs and going to the strip club. Wonder how long it will be before they change that?
Click to expand...
You get to be tried as an adult for everything, and also have to find your own insurance. Yay!
 
Life is so hard for kids these days.
 
tknopp said:
So the only fun things left to look forward to when turning 18 now are buying scratch offs and going to the strip club. Wonder how long it will be before they change that?
Click to expand...
Now this is a reason for someone to say "How dare you - You have stolen my childhood!"
 
Southern_Transplant said:
I definitely agree on flipping the order on personal responsibility and voting responsibility. For me, alcohol, tobacco, fire arms, and driving could all by set at 18 and voting following at 21.

It's interesting how most of Europe can have a drinking age of 16 and still have cigarette machines on street corners without having higher rates of DUIs, alcoholism, etc. I think it's far better to set realistic laws and then hold people accountable for their personal choices.
Click to expand...
Well, except that Europe does NOT have a lower alcoholism rate than the USA, it's higher.
Higher among teens, higher among adults.

"One of the most common arguments against America's legal drinking age is that Europe has a supposedly safer drinking culture despite its lower drinking ages. After I wrote an argument for keeping the US drinking age at 21, it's a question that readers raised in emails again and again: If a lower drinking age is so bad, why is Europe doing fine?

The answer, it seems, is that Europe is not doing fine. If you look at the data, there's no evidence to support the idea that Europe, in general, has a safer drinking culture than the US.

According to international data from the World Health Organization, European teens ages 15 to 19 tend to report greater levels of binge drinking than American teens.

This continues into adulthood. Total alcohol consumption per person is much higher in most of Europe. Drinkers in several European countries — including the UK, France, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, and Iceland — are also more likely to report binge drinking than their US counterparts.

Younger teens in Europe appear to drink more, as well. David Jernigan, an alcohol policy expert at Johns Hopkins University, studied survey data, finding that 15- and 16-year-old Americans are less likely to report drinking and getting drunk in the past month than their counterparts in most European countries."

"

"But perhaps most tellingly, liver cirrhosis death rates in 2012 were significantly higher in several European countries than in America: The US's age-adjusted rate for men 15 and older was 14.9 per 100,000 people, while the UK's rate was 16, France's was 16.4, Germany's was 18.8, and Denmark's was 20.2. This is likely a result of excessive drinking in youth and adulthood."
 
Pacfanweb said:
Well, except that Europe does NOT have a lower alcoholism rate than the USA, it's higher.
Higher among teens, higher among adults.

"One of the most common arguments against America's legal drinking age is that Europe has a supposedly safer drinking culture despite its lower drinking ages. After I wrote an argument for keeping the US drinking age at 21, it's a question that readers raised in emails again and again: If a lower drinking age is so bad, why is Europe doing fine?

The answer, it seems, is that Europe is not doing fine. If you look at the data, there's no evidence to support the idea that Europe, in general, has a safer drinking culture than the US.

According to international data from the World Health Organization, European teens ages 15 to 19 tend to report greater levels of binge drinking than American teens.

This continues into adulthood. Total alcohol consumption per person is much higher in most of Europe. Drinkers in several European countries — including the UK, France, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, and Iceland — are also more likely to report binge drinking than their US counterparts.

Younger teens in Europe appear to drink more, as well. David Jernigan, an alcohol policy expert at Johns Hopkins University, studied survey data, finding that 15- and 16-year-old Americans are less likely to report drinking and getting drunk in the past month than their counterparts in most European countries."

"

"But perhaps most tellingly, liver cirrhosis death rates in 2012 were significantly higher in several European countries than in America: The US's age-adjusted rate for men 15 and older was 14.9 per 100,000 people, while the UK's rate was 16, France's was 16.4, Germany's was 18.8, and Denmark's was 20.2. This is likely a result of excessive drinking in youth and adulthood."
Click to expand...
That's an interesting point on liver disease comparisons. I don't have much experience with Denmark, but I guess they have some issues. The study does highlight that Europe has a diverse range of behaviors between nations. I'm assuming it would be the same if the US data was broken down by state/region.

As for the study about self reported binge drinking, that's not surprising. Asking a 16 year old to admit to illegal activity in the US will most likely result in a huge statistical variance. If you've ever been in military recruiting, you would be amazed at how little marijuana is being smoked in America based on the answers given by applicants.
 
Drinking and alcoholism can be attributed to depression as well. I wonder what the depression rates are of Europeans as compared to Americans.

it seems that many people solely contribute drinking to access to alcohol, thus restricting access by making drinking age 21 or 18. While that may be somewhat true (many kids 14-17 drink anyway regardless of the legal drinking age), I’d be willing to bet many more factors are at play, such as culture, lifestyle, stress/depression, or other similar factors.
 
Back
Top