Torq Axle...Charlie Wenzel V2.0

StretchASU said:
If I had $16.5k to put down on some axles for a toy, you bet your ass I'd have a few hundy laying around for a plane ticket or fuel money to go have a face to face in a situation like this. Long before 2 fuckin years was up.
Click to expand...
Heard that.I was three days away from making a trip to IN over a $300 deck lid one time.
 
2940272d1565065815-off-road-memes-56c6d003-2f6f-4ec7-85f3-7c83539ea725.jpg
 
StretchASU said:
If I had $16.5k to put down on some axles for a toy, you bet your ass I'd have a few hundy laying around for a plane ticket or fuel money to go have a face to face in a situation like this. Long before 2 fuckin years was up.
Click to expand...

If I had 16.5k to put down on axles, I probably don't have time to fly cross country over 16.5k, But I probably have a thousand or so to hire a 'specialist in persuasion' to go visit on my behalf!
 
Two things still don't add up to me 1) How do you build the reputation of a business to the point of building $15k axles and then all of a sudden go broke and have been screwing people over for years 2) How are you all of sudden broke if you're still doing 'similar projects for other people', which I assume means other $15k axle builds that we're told he doesn't have the money to do. I agree shitty practice to leave a customer dangling for 2 years, but people talk, people do their due dilligence, and I still feel there's more to this story.

upload_2019-8-7_9-52-12.png

upload_2019-8-7_9-53-20.png
 
UTfball68 said:
Two things still don't add up to me 1) How do you build the reputation of a business to the point of building $15k axles and then all of a sudden go broke and have been screwing people over for years 2) How are you all of sudden broke if you're still doing 'similar projects for other people', which I assume means other $15k axle builds that we're told he doesn't have the money to do. I agree shitty practice to leave a customer dangling for 2 years, but people talk, people do their due dilligence, and I still feel there's more to this story.

View attachment 300194
View attachment 300195
Click to expand...

Marketing with creative high end products that practically no one else on the market offers.

Ever heard of drop out center 14b axles and third members? That’s THE guy.

Only real product competition for gearworks/spidertrax/tube works 10” axle.
 
It's not an excuse, but I can see how a spiral can occur if you are a 1 off trying to raise enough capital to get the manufacturer to produce, and the manufacturer starts bending you over or they find better shit to do than deal with a small run of gears. Then you start knocking out the easier shit to stay afloat and you've made promises and committed to deadlines you can't keep, and all your finances are tied up in it. Probably pretty easy to get in over your head. But you gotta bite the bullet at some point, stop digging, come clean, and figure out how to square your customers away before you get WenzelDouged.
 
UTfball68 said:
Two things still don't add up to me 1) How do you build the reputation of a business to the point of building $15k axles and then all of a sudden go broke and have been screwing people over for years 2) How are you all of sudden broke if you're still doing 'similar projects for other people', which I assume means other $15k axle builds that we're told he doesn't have the money to do. I agree shitty practice to leave a customer dangling for 2 years, but people talk, people do their due dilligence, and I still feel there's more to this story.
Click to expand...


IMHO it happens 90% of the time for the same 2 combined reasons.
1-The business owner is a poor accountant AND 2- The business owner lacks humility to admit to mistakes.

Ive seen some HUGE, (10 figure worth huge) construction companies fail and when you dig into them its those two reasons. Things go sideway and people think they are the smartest guy on the planet and can shuffle around and hide the mistake Dumb guys go broke the first or second time they try. Smart guys get by with it a bunch. Then the mistake gets too big to fix.

The 10% I reserve above is consumed by drug problems draining cash flow, side hos families draining cash flow, major medical event that was uninsured, and a (very) few poor calculated business risks.
 
Ron said:
IMHO it happens 90% of the time for the same 2 combined reasons.
1-The business owner is a poor accountant AND 2- The business owner lacks humility to admit to mistakes.

Ive seen some HUGE, (10 figure worth huge) construction companies fail and when you dig into them its those two reasons. Things go sideway and people think they are the smartest guy on the planet and can shuffle around and hide the mistake Dumb guys go broke the first or second time they try. Smart guys get by with it a bunch. Then the mistake gets too big to fix.

The 10% I reserve above is consumed by drug problems draining cash flow, side hos families draining cash flow, major medical event that was uninsured, and a (very) few poor calculated business risks.
Click to expand...

Agreed...and that whole rob from Peter to pay Paul was my first assumption after seeing Mac’s posts. Not a business man on the planet that hasn’t done that, while crossing his fingers a big receivable comes in. But where that doesn’t fly is the dude complaining says the vendor is still doing other people’s just-as-expensive projects. If that’s factual, that reads more like a personal beef.

Again, don’t wanna be too sympathetic if the guy is ripping people off...but I’ve been in situations like this with $30k engines, where I look like absolute shit from the customers perspective, but the customer never relays he changed the build plan 15 times in 12 months which required more funds for custom parts and adds more time, then the customer runs out of funds or the season is over and it’s not quite a priority any more, blah blah blah. Just saying I think there are scenarios where the vendor could be justified and I/we haven’t really seen his side of the story.
 
UTfball68 said:
But where that doesn’t fly is the dude complaining says the vendor is still doing other people’s just-as-expensive projects. If that’s factual, that reads more like a personal beef.
Click to expand...

Dude does different typs of axle builds.

In your world, His vendor is out of 352 heads. He cant get heads. But he is still cranking out 460 based builds.
That seems to be his claim.
 
This sort of thing happens so frequently in our hobby. Here's a very common scenario:
Joe Blow drops $15k off with Shop1 for a rolling chassis buggy build. Shop1 proposes that $15k will furnish parts and labor to produce a rolling chassis for JB. Says it'll be ready in 3 months.
JB's money is used by Shop1 to buy parts, pay overhead, pay salaries, etc for work currently being turned out, not for JB's buggy build.
JB gets tired of excuses and says he wants his $$$ back and he'll have Shop2 build him one instead. Shop1 says he doesn't have the $$$ to return. Begin internet drama.
Where's his $$$?
It's gone. It has been spent by Shop1 already because he is one job behind in terms of cash flow.

How do you combat this?
Signed contract with money down, not full payment.
Stay in touch with shop and demand return communication
Demand weekly updates with pictures, proof of parts sitting at shop, etc
There are other ways too. Here's what I have seen myself back in the day. Dude wants $xx,xxx worth of work (labor in this case) done. Has enough coin to put money down and pay as he goes. Open an account at shop's bank with the customer's down payment. Out of that account, every week, comes the shop's labor. The customer can see it and the shop can tell the customer when coin is running out and "Better add to it if you want me to continue." That way, your money can be "seen", the shop can't say you owe us $xxxx, etc.
Obviously this scenario would work best with a small shop, not a large company with an already established reputation.
 
Ron said:
Dude does different typs of axle builds.

In your world, His vendor is out of 352 heads. He cant get heads. But he is still cranking out 460 based builds.
That seems to be his claim.
Click to expand...

It doesn't read that way to me at all. Screen caps say the customer says the vendor is broke, screen caps also say vendor continues to churn out other similar builds. If the vendor is too broke to repay or fund the project or an attorney, how is he funding the other projects that one should assume cost similarly. Or are they embellishing to give that added extra victim touch.

Furthermore, if what you're saying is the case, I'm failing to see why the vendor is the bad guy and why his supplier isn't. Earlier this year there was a surprise shortage in homosalate...customer pre-paid, I paid $100k for this one individual material, I was told 'end of the month/beginning of next' 4 times, I'm handcuffed, and I'm not disrupting my cash flow to that magnitude for something that's not my fault. I have one machine shop that takes about 3x longer than quoted every single time...I rarely use them because of it, but with engine volume I had to drop off a basic clean and bore, 6 months later I pick up an untouched block and heads, but for the last 6 months I've been told another week, another week another week...even if I told my customer it was another month, I still woulda been wrong. Both shitty scenarios, and I don't like them...but if the vendor's vendor is the source of the problem, let the mob harass them.

Edit...I reiterate that this assumes the axle builder isn’t just a complete crook, but I do see scenarios where this is potentially justifiable without seeing the other side of the story.
 
Last edited:
It is apparent that the vendor isn’t willing to refund the deposit.

He is unable to supply the parts as well.

The reasons are unknown.

It is also apparent that he has seen the internet backlash as potential ruining his current and future business by demanding Doug put a cease to the bashing.

Speculating as to if/ why he does have liquid funds to refund the deposit or if/why he cannot produce the parts is not important to the issue.

However it’s obvious how does he plan to pay the retainer to file suit against Doug,Phil, the internet Et al, if he doesn’t have the funds to issue a refund.

I don’t understand how speculating about and empathizing torq side of this story is beneficial in this discussion with the current information.

Obviously this would have been a non issue if he would have supplied the parts or refund in the 23 months prior to now. That would have been the easiest way an honest businessman would have done to attempt to make the customer happy in order to solve the issue before it ever had the chance to escalate to what it is now.
 
UTfball68 said:
It doesn't read that way to me at all. Screen caps say the customer says the vendor is broke, screen caps also say vendor continues to churn out other similar builds. If the vendor is too broke to repay or fund the project or an attorney, how is he funding the other projects that one should assume cost similarly. Or are they embellishing to give that added extra victim touch.

Furthermore, if what you're saying is the case, I'm failing to see why the vendor is the bad guy and why his supplier isn't. Earlier this year there was a surprise shortage in homosalate...customer pre-paid, I paid $100k for this one individual material, I was told 'end of the month/beginning of next' 4 times, I'm handcuffed, and I'm not disrupting my cash flow to that magnitude for something that's not my fault. I have one machine shop that takes about 3x longer than quoted every single time...I rarely use them because of it, but with engine volume I had to drop off a basic clean and bore, 6 months later I pick up an untouched block and heads, but for the last 6 months I've been told another week, another week another week...even if I told my customer it was another month, I still woulda been wrong. Both shitty scenarios, and I don't like them...but if the vendor's vendor is the source of the problem, let the mob harass them.

Edit...I reiterate that this assumes the axle builder isn’t just a complete crook, but I do see scenarios where this is potentially justifiable without seeing the other side of the story.
Click to expand...


But see, heres the thing. As the customer, I really dont care whos fault it is. Im trusting you (not you personally, but you as in whatever shop) to do what was agreed upon in the time frame and cost agreed to. I dont care if your supplier is out of parts, or if it burns to the ground. Not my problem. Either get me what I ordered, or give me back my money.


Prime example: when I was working in our steel shop we had a go to guy for powder coating. At the time, we likely had 50k worth of steel at this shop. Out of the blue, his shop catches on fire and then collapses. Completely out of our control and no one truly at fault. Our customer didnt care, all they care about is the project deadline. So, the next day we hired more truckers and went and got all our steel. Brought it back and figured out what we could save. Took what was still straight to another shop and had it redone, worked overtime to fix the rest and get it coated. Still made the deadline. Cost us untold thousands of dollars, but we now have several jobs with that contractor.

Bottom line, all the customer cares about is getting what was paid for. Anything else is the shops problem. Find a new source, work overtime, whatever it takes.
 
JSJJ388 said:
But see, heres the thing. As the customer, I really dont care whos fault it is. Im trusting you (not you personally, but you as in whatever shop) to do what was agreed upon in the time frame and cost agreed to. I dont care if your supplier is out of parts, or if it burns to the ground. Not my problem. Either get me what I ordered, or give me back my money.


Prime example: when I was working in our steel shop we had a go to guy for powder coating. At the time, we likely had 50k worth of steel at this shop. Out of the blue, his shop catches on fire and then collapses. Completely out of our control and no one truly at fault. Our customer didnt care, all they care about is the project deadline. So, the next day we hired more truckers and went and got all our steel. Brought it back and figured out what we could save. Took what was still straight to another shop and had it redone, worked overtime to fix the rest and get it coated. Still made the deadline. Cost us untold thousands of dollars, but we now have several jobs with that contractor.

Bottom line, all the customer cares about is getting what was paid for. Anything else is the shops problem. Find a new source, work overtime, whatever it takes.
Click to expand...

You have to have "untold thousands of dollars" to eat "untold thousands of dollars"....
 
Back
Top