Torq Axle...Charlie Wenzel V2.0

[Mac5005]

More fuel for this dumpster fire.

Those are definitely before focusonthearc started welding the housings for torq.

 

[JSJJ388]

You have to have "untold thousands of dollars" to eat "untold thousands of dollars"....

This is true. Its a large company thats doing well and has the cash to deal with these problems. But thats not really my point. The point is that it wasnt our customers problem, it was our problem. Even though the circumstances were entirely out of our control.

 

[Loganwayne]

More fuel for this dumpster fire.

Those are definitely before focusonthearc started welding the housings for torq.

I mean those aren’t that bad to my untrained eye. Definitely not like the ones you posted below them, but I wouldn’t have thought twice about running them, in lease of course the 3rd didn’t fit or they were out of square


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[1-tonmudder]

Simple: Because the current information is only one side of the story.
View attachment 300215

There’s three sides to a story. His, hers and the truth. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.


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[YOUNGBLOOD13]

Lots of good stuff in here, and bad. Memes are hilarious. As a business owner who takes a LOT of losses, I appreciate the different views. I ate $2000 on a Nova last week, customer brought us sandwiches today. We talked about the fact that with his desires, his wifes money, i could easily be running a big boat on Lake Norman if I was anything like some shop owners. I cant sleep at night sometimes worrying. I dont know how some people can do the shit they do. I have a Charger in here guy spent $800,000 on, and he cant drive it anywhere without problems. Sickening. It takes all kinds

 

[obullfish]

I have a Charger in here guy spent $800,000 on, and he cant drive it anywhere without problems. Sickening

How is that even possible?

 

[UTfball68]

But see, heres the thing. As the customer, I really dont care whos fault it is. Im trusting you (not you personally, but you as in whatever shop) to do what was agreed upon in the time frame and cost agreed to. I dont care if your supplier is out of parts, or if it burns to the ground. Not my problem. Either get me what I ordered, or give me back my money.


Prime example: when I was working in our steel shop we had a go to guy for powder coating. At the time, we likely had 50k worth of steel at this shop. Out of the blue, his shop catches on fire and then collapses. Completely out of our control and no one truly at fault. Our customer didnt care, all they care about is the project deadline. So, the next day we hired more truckers and went and got all our steel. Brought it back and figured out what we could save. Took what was still straight to another shop and had it redone, worked overtime to fix the rest and get it coated. Still made the deadline. Cost us untold thousands of dollars, but we now have several jobs with that contractor.

Bottom line, all the customer cares about is getting what was paid for. Anything else is the shops problem. Find a new source, work overtime, whatever it takes.

I very much so understand that. But also as a customer, you have to be realistic. Homosalate doesn't have very many point of origin vendors, it's not like I could just go to another direct source vendor to fulfill the order. When I was at Nucor there were 2-3 companies on the planet that could make some of the melt equipment I used, so it's not like I could just go to other vendors, if I was stuck with an 18 month lead time, guess what...so was the customer...if 18 months turned in to 24, that's how long the customer got to wait too, whether they liked it or not. And if this dude is one of a literal hand full of folks doing what he does, and the folks that supply him parts are hanging him out to dry, what's he supposed to do??? That money is spent, admittedly shoulda refunded it, didn't...said it would take him months to reimburse.

 

[JSJJ388]

I very much so understand that. But also as a customer, you have to be realistic. Homosalate doesn't have very many point of origin vendors, it's not like I could just go to another direct source vendor to fulfill the order. When I was at Nucor there were 2-3 companies on the planet that could make some of the melt equipment I used, so it's not like I could just go to other vendors, if I was stuck with an 18 month lead time, guess what...so was the customer...if 18 months turned in to 24, that's how long the customer got to wait too, whether they liked it or not. And if this dude is one of a literal hand full of folks doing what he does, and the folks that supply him parts are hanging him out to dry, what's he supposed to do??? That money is spent, admittedly shoulda refunded it, didn't...said it would take him months to reimburse.

I imagine you would be up front and honest from the start. If you know you have an excessive lead time, let the customer know. If lead time changes and becomes unacceptable to the customer, refund them. Again, I would think that you being as nice as you are would keep people in the loop and just be honest.

 

[Loganwayne]

I very much so understand that. But also as a customer, you have to be realistic. Homosalate doesn't have very many point of origin vendors, it's not like I could just go to another direct source vendor to fulfill the order. When I was at Nucor there were 2-3 companies on the planet that could make some of the melt equipment I used, so it's not like I could just go to other vendors, if I was stuck with an 18 month lead time, guess what...so was the customer...if 18 months turned in to 24, that's how long the customer got to wait too, whether they liked it or not. And if this dude is one of a literal hand full of folks doing what he does, and the folks that supply him parts are hanging him out to dry, what's he supposed to do??? That money is spent, admittedly shoulda refunded it, didn't...said it would take him months to reimburse.

I get what your saying but at the least the owner could have said I’m waiting on parts which I believe he did. Once the customer said it’s been “x” long I’d like my money back. Owner could have said I understand I’ve had to prepay for some parts that I’m still waiting on. Let me see if I can get the money refunded back to me and then back to you or the products.

The guys not doing himself any favors by just saying it’s gone. You got nothing coming


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[UTfball68]

I imagine you would be up front and honest from the start. If you know you have an excessive lead time, let the customer know. If lead time changes and becomes unacceptable to the customer, refund them. Again, I would think that you being as nice as you are would keep people in the loop and just be honest.

Holy shit...I'm putting that on the refrigerator...I was called nice on NC4x4.

But you're right...I'd keep the customer in the loop as much as possible. But also being realistic, I know how pissed off customers can skew what's really going on. As noted previously, I'm sure there are several dozen instances in any of the business I run that I could be made to look like an absolute piece of shit, but I'd bet 99% of the time the customer wouldn't be relaying the entire story either. Also, key thing to remember, usually it's only the unsatisfied customers that speak up...so even if 10 people come out with stories, seems like a lot, but how many successful transactions were there? And again, this is all assuming the dude isn't an outright crook and has some semblance of a logical explanation. If he is a crook, string him up, but I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Mac5005]

I very much so understand that. But also as a customer, you have to be realistic. Homosalate doesn't have very many point of origin vendors, it's not like I could just go to another direct source vendor to fulfill the order. When I was at Nucor there were 2-3 companies on the planet that could make some of the melt equipment I used, so it's not like I could just go to other vendors, if I was stuck with an 18 month lead time, guess what...so was the customer...if 18 months turned in to 24, that's how long the customer got to wait too, whether they liked it or not. And if this dude is one of a literal hand full of folks doing what he does, and the folks that supply him parts are hanging him out to dry, what's he supposed to do??? That money is spent, admittedly shoulda refunded it, didn't...said it would take him months to reimburse.

That’s why the #1 issue causing businesses to fail is inadequate liquid working capital. Cash flow.

If his supplier can’t machine thirds in time, he needs to find a new supplier. That’s not the customers problem. That’s a problem for the business. If you can’t find supplier, make it in house.

We are talking custom parts but not exotic materials or tooling. Machine shops with 4/5 axis are all over and need to keep the machines running.

It’s not a customer problem until you rob Peter to pay Paul and it catches up to you, and you can’t make it right to the customer. A huge Part of that is being up front and honest.

If torq couldn’t get the hp 10.5 gear to supply the axle, annnnd couldn’t do a LP 10.5 axle, and customer request refund, torq should have honored that immediately.

Torq should have figured out how to get the money, make it right to the customer, and dealt with subsequent business operational issues separate from dealing with Doug or any other customer.

Now torq’s operational issues are Doug’s problem. That should have never been the case, and this wouldn’t even exist.

 

[Ron]

I get what your saying but at the least the owner could have said I’m waiting on parts which I believe he did. Once the customer said it’s been “x” long I’d like my money back. Owner could have said I understand I’ve had to prepay for some parts that I’m still waiting on. Let me see if I can get the money refunded back to me and then back to you or the products.

The guys not doing himself any favors by just saying it’s gone. You got nothing coming


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While I agree and think the owner of Torq is a douche nozzle based on what I know so far...
But you've painted him into a heck of a corner.
1) Tell the truth. I aint got the parts and I blew your money on other business I cant repay you.
2) Lie.

Either way the truth is the money is gone its going to take months to get it back.

Ron

 

[JSJJ388]

Holy shit...I'm putting that on the refrigerator...I was called nice on NC4x4.

But you're right...I'd keep the customer in the loop as much as possible. But also being realistic, I know how pissed off customers can skew what's really going on. As noted previously, I'm sure there are several dozen instances in any of the business I run that I could be made to look like an absolute piece of shit, but I'd bet 99% of the time the customer wouldn't be relaying the entire story either. Also, key thing to remember, usually it's only the unsatisfied customers that speak up...so even if 10 people come out with stories, seems like a lot, but how many successful transactions were there? And again, this is all assuming the dude isn't an outright crook and has some semblance of a logical explanation. If he is a crook, string him up, but I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Haha, good. We disagree, but youve always been pretty damn nice to me.

 

[UTfball68]

That’s why the #1 issue causing businesses to fail is inadequate liquid working capital. Cash flow.

That's like saying the #1 cause of death is dying.

If his supplier can’t machine thirds in time, he needs to find a new supplier. That’s not the customers problem. That’s a problem for the business. If you can’t find supplier, make it in house.

We are talking custom parts but not exotic materials or tooling. Machine shops with 4/5 axis are all over and need to keep the machines running.

It’s not a customer problem until you rob Peter to pay Paul and it catches up to you, and you can’t make it right to the customer. A huge Part of that is being up front and honest.

If torq couldn’t get the hp 10.5 gear to supply the axle, annnnd couldn’t do a LP 10.5 axle, and customer request refund, torq should have honored that immediately.

Torq should have figured out how to get the money, make it right to the customer, and dealt with subsequent business operational issues separate from dealing with Doug or any other customer.

Now torq’s operational issues are Doug’s problem. That should have never been the case, and this wouldn’t even exist.

I think this is where Ron always tells me I operate in the black and white, but there's this huge array of grey...and as an owner of 3 separate businesses, that's where I'm sitting on this one. We all assume we know what should have ideally happened, we don't actually KNOW what lead to this point, we haven't heard Doug's side of things, we don't know what avenues Doug tried, we don't know a lot. Hell, I'm sitting here trying to move some brackets locally that I have machined for various race shop kits...do you know what kind of a pain in the dick it is to try to get machine/R&D time from scratch for some super simple dimensions on 1/4-3/8" plate (much less a one off part), or how expensive it would be for me to buy the necessary equipment and hire the head needed to do it in house in the event I run out of safety stock before my current machinist can get me in queue or I can find a new one. And I'm pretty sure you do, I think I've read you're pretty skilled in that arena. Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate, maybe I kinda feel for the guy, I dunno...but at the end of the day, I still haven't seen the other side of the story.

 

[CasterTroy]

 

[RatLabGuy]

So, I haven't bothered to follow the whole link & saga - but the thing that made the Wenzel affair a real affair was the ridiculous personal backlash - people going to his house, posting his personal info, basically making his personal life bona fide sketchy. Not just public shaming and tanking a business.

Is that happening here too? IOW - has this really gone full Wenzel?

 

[R Q]

I never heard of Wenzel

 

[UTfball68]

So, I haven't bothered to follow the whole link & saga - but the thing that made the Wenzel affair a real affair was the ridiculous personal backlash - people going to his house, posting his personal info, basically making his personal life bona fide sketchy. Not just public shaming and tanking a business.

Is that happening here too? IOW - has this really gone full Wenzel?

I think they call that ‘doxing’ these days...and with harassment and cyber bullying being such a hot topic these days, not sure a Wenzel type incident could be so public.

 

[Mac5005]

So, I haven't bothered to follow the whole link & saga - but the thing that made the Wenzel affair a real affair was the ridiculous personal backlash - people going to his house, posting his personal info, basically making his personal life bona fide sketchy. Not just public shaming and tanking a business.

Is that happening here too? IOW - has this really gone full Wenzel?

Not yet, it’s been discussed but Doug wants to try the legal side through attorneys first.

They are currently talking to everyone that has reached out that has had similar dealings with getting torq’d.

 

[Paul]

I build my own axles thank you.
With a bunch of help from my friends.
But i am a Big Dixie Bogger and that's what we do.
Help each other out and shit like that...

 

[Lizooki]

I never heard of Wenzel

Google it.

Booty fab. Then smack talkin' when the guys on Pirate called him out on his booty fab.
they ruined his life.

Seriously, it used to come up on Google.

 

[Stuntman Autoworks]

I build my own axles thank you.
With a bunch of help from my friends.
But i am a Big Dixie Bogger and that's what we do.
Help each other out and shit like that...

You would still have to buy parts from torq if you wanted to build one like they produce.

 

[sammi_davis]

Google it.

Booty fab. Then smack talkin' when the guys on Pirate called him out on his booty fab.
they ruined his life.

Seriously, it used to come up on Google.

Not booty fab , he lied about selling gears and delivering them.

 

[rockcity]

 

[XJsavage]

I never heard of Wenzel

Charlie Wenzel, aka Cdubzon40's. Back story is he sold a set of 4.88 60 gears to MochaMike for $125. Then he ups the price, come to find out they were used. Blah blah blah, typical bullshit pirate thread. Its not worth even reading.