Trying to figure out the right vehicle to purchase..

[shawn]

Here's a hypothetical:

Let's say you go out and pick up a low-mileage, used 2014 Suburban for around $30k. The market is chock full of them. I hear you can get them out the door for high 20s.

It's loaded. Bluetooth, DVD player, leather, etc. Gets 21-22mpg highway.

The same vehicle, five years old with 150,000 miles, is going for $25k. Heck, I've seen private party asking price on LTs over $30k.

So you could buy one, put over 100k miles on it, and sell it, for - round numbers - about $6-7k in depreciation.

Could you buy a 12 year old Excursion with 250,000 miles on it, drive it for another 100k, and not spend $6-7k in repairs and depreciation over the next five years? What's a transmission and a full front-end suspension rebuild going to set you back? Probably going to need some turbo work and injectors, too.

 

[Ron]

Here's a hypothetical:

I hear you can get them out the door for high 20s.

I've got the paperwork to prove it

 

[Ron]

Must have never owned a diesel. 20+ year Cummins' are still $10k+ in decent shape. Clean or low mile is even more.

I'm not sure which of the 2 posts previosu to yours this was aimed at but Id laugh at either.

 

[Mac5005]

Must have never owned a diesel. 20+ year Cummins' are still $10k+ in decent shape. Clean or low mile is even more.

Haha. I guess that means the best option is a surplus medium duty international six door with the cummins is the only option. I think that's the only diesel under 15k, seats six comfortably, has a cummins, and can tow 6500 lbs.

 

[buddyantunez1]

Here's a hypothetical:

Let's say you go out and pick up a low-mileage, used 2014 Suburban for around $30k. The market is chock full of them. I hear you can get them out the door for high 20s.

It's loaded. Bluetooth, DVD player, leather, etc. Gets 21-22mpg highway.

The same vehicle, five years old with 150,000 miles, is going for $25k. Heck, I've seen private party asking price on LTs over $30k.

So you could buy one, put over 100k miles on it, and sell it, for - round numbers - about $6-7k in depreciation.

Could you buy a 12 year old Excursion with 250,000 miles on it, drive it for another 100k, and not spend $6-7k in repairs and depreciation over the next five years? What's a transmission and a full front-end suspension rebuild going to set you back? Probably going to need some turbo work and injectors, too.

I'm lost...

1. The OP has a budget of $15k. How are we talking $30k all of a sudden. I'm not debating gas vs. diesel. They all have their ups and downs, but if I'm getting a known tow rig, it's going to be a diesel that's designed to tow...

2. Chevy people should know about replacing transmissions more than anyone. Especially since you're talking about 1500's with the garbage 4L60E. Old school Turbo 350/400's and the 4L80's would be the only Chevy trans I'd even have in a vehicle. So tell me how good a Tahoe/Burb 1500 4L60E holds up to any type of power or towing. ANY towing/purpose vehicle will need transmission rebuilds eventually. It contains wear items such as seals, o-rings, clutch packs, ect. Not bashing Chevy, but they're not known for their 1500 series transmissions holding up to much.

3. ALL 7.3 Excursions, gasser or diesel, prior to 2003 were leaf sprung sold axle Dana 50/60. So what exactly is there to rebuild? Typical tie rod ends? Wheel bearings? Of coarse thats all meant to wear and be replaced. Lets talk about the Chevy IFS under 1500/2500's... The IDENTICAL suspension/drivetrain under a 3500 duramax as well. We all know how they hold up to power. I can find 1000 pics of the front tires facing each other. Let a diesel 3500 need 4wd once when bound up and towing. It will grenade the front differential and CV shafts. I think 99.9% of the offroad community will agree that a leaf sprung straight axle is MUCH more relaible than an IFS. Granted the IFS rides a whole lot better, it's too much to worry about replacing and repairing when used a lot.

4. They don't even make Excursions anymore so how can you even compare a new tahoe to a 2005 Excursion?

I'm not bashing Chevy, I like them, but fitting what the OP wants, an Excursion is a great fit. Along with 2500's, and a few others. Yes a 2500 burb would be in 2nd place for my decision. Not arguing either, just a friendly convo about tow rigs

I'm not sure which of the 2 posts previous to yours this was aimed at but Id laugh at either.

Uhhhh... Where did this come from?

 

[buddyantunez1]

Haha. I guess that means the best option is a surplus medium duty international six door with the cummins is the only option. I think that's the only diesel under 15k, seats six comfortably, has a cummins, and can tow 6500 lbs.

If it was more practical and could go over 60mph, I'd have a multi-fuel Deuce in a heart beat. Never paying for fuel again would be nice. If only Dodge made a cummins SUV. When my 7.3 goes, prob in another 250k, it's get the 12 valve swap.

 

[Ron]

Not sure why, but I'll engage at the risk of totally derailing the thread.

You said

Uhhhh... Where did this come from?

Well I quoted your post of :

Must have never owned a diesel. 20+ year Cummins' are still $10k+ in decent shape. Clean or low mile is even more.

And the 2 posts previous to yours were

$15k for a 12 year old SUV with 250,000 miles is crazy talk.

and

My 8.1 tows great in OD. Gets 9-10 mpg towing on flat and the same 6-9 in the hills. But it also only gets 9-10 empty in the city.

Tows great in OD on the highway. Pulled 11k and only hit the tow haul button to firm up the shifts and hold in each gear better.


6.0 needs to downshift to pull anything. It doesn't do anything below 3500rpms. I have gotten as low as 3-4 mpg towing with 6.0. Also towed all day 450 miles in 3rd at 3000 -3500 Rpms all day. Still factory motor and had the trans done at 225k miles. Had this suburban since 40k miles.


As far as needing a rebuild at 250k, maybe. Depends on the motor and oil used.

Diesel short blocks may be just getting broken in at 250-300k, but the head gaskets, injectors, pumps, and auto transmissions are junk at that point. Throw a big hp tuner on one and that makes it happen all the sooner. Considering most suvs use similar parts to their 2500 truck counterparts, the same chassis suspension parts would show the same wear at 200k, except for the diesel weighing more.

And I said I would laugh at you if you were directing your quote at either response because I wasnt sure who you were assuming dhad never owned a diesel.
1 - If Shawn you'd be wrong. He brags on his Cummins every chance he gets. And if he could drive it would be a nice truck.
2 - If MAC I'd say his post is spot on.


Anyway onto your latest post...
Everyone gets it, you love your 7.3 excursion. Dont blame you, I had one myself and its the only ford SUV Id own again.

I'm lost...
1. The OP has a budget of $15k. How are we talking $30k all of a sudden. I'm not debating gas vs. diesel. They all have their ups and downs, but if I'm getting a known tow rig, it's going to be a diesel that's designed to tow...

Last sentence is really irrelevent because OP established from the get go it wasnt a dediated tow rig but the wife's DD that may also see some tow duty. The Excursion sucks as a DD as bad as my F250 does if you live anywhere near parking decks or downtown areas that do not provide 40 acre fields for parking lots. The first part about budget is a good point but I suspect Shawn was saying maybe you should look at expending the budget. He and I have both had this conversation in the last week I started looking for the same thing the OP did and ended up spending $28k on a '14 Suburban with <30k miles and loaded

2. Chevy people should know about replacing transmissions more than anyone. Especially since you're talking about 1500's with the garbage 4L60E. Old school Turbo 350/400's and the 4L80's would be the only Chevy trans I'd even have in a vehicle. So tell me how good a Tahoe/Burb 1500 4L60E holds up to any type of power or towing. ANY towing/purpose vehicle will need transmission rebuilds eventually. It contains wear items such as seals, o-rings, clutch packs, ect. Not bashing Chevy, but they're not known for their 1500 series transmissions holding up to much.

I'd really like to hear more about the difference between the th350 and the 4l60/4l60E. Can you explain a bit please. (Feel free to throw the 700 in the mix as well if youd like)

3. ALL 7.3 Excursions, gasser or diesel, prior to 2003 were leaf sprung sold axle Dana 50/60. So what exactly is there to rebuild? Typical tie rod ends? Wheel bearings? Of coarse thats all meant to wear and be replaced. Lets talk about the Chevy IFS under 1500/2500's... The IDENTICAL suspension/drivetrain under a 3500 duramax as well. We all know how they hold up to power. I can find 1000 pics of the front tires facing each other. Let a diesel 3500 need 4wd once when bound up and towing. It will grenade the front differential and CV shafts. I think 99.9% of the offroad community will agree that a leaf sprung straight axle is MUCH more relaible than an IFS. Granted the IFS rides a whole lot better, it's too much to worry about replacing and repairing when used a lot.

Your Ford love is blinding you. 2WD dont have a SFA (you said all ). And you also left out unit bearings and ball joints. I My D50/D60 ford front has 270k on it and hasnt been rebuilt. I know Rob K spent about $2k on his in that time frame though. And again no one is arguing IFS is better for hardcore wheeling. For a daly driver and kid hauler, I could certainly make the argument it is better.

4. They don't even make Excursions anymore so how can you even compare a new tahoe to a 2005 Excursion?
I'm not bashing Chevy, I like them, but fitting what the OP wants, an Excursion is a great fit. Along with 2500's, and a few others. Yes a 2500 burb would be in 2nd place for my decision. Not arguing either, just a friendly convo about tow rigs

I'm not even arguing that the excursion isnt a good choice I suppose. So long as it doesnt have a 5.4. ANd you are willing to pay $15k for a 10+ year old vehicle with 150k miles. No way in hell I would do that, but you could I suppose.

 

[buddyantunez1]

lol UMADBRO?

 

[shawn]

My D50/D60 ford front has 270k on it and hasnt been rebuilt. I know Rob K spent about $2k on his in that time frame though. And again no one is arguing IFS is better for hardcore wheeling. For a daly driver and kid hauler, I could certainly make the argument it is better.

I tell you what, man. You and @rockcity are the worst. Get a couple of beers in you, and you poor mouth the hell out of your trucks. It's all "I don't know if I'm going to make it home, it's going to run out of fuel on me again, I forgot my spare set of injectors, I think the DPF/EGR/oil cooler/FICM/turbo has taken a dump again, the front end is shot I can't keep it in my lane." Then you get on the internet, and it's all "I put 300k miles on this truck, never had to do a thing to it, still on the first tank of fuel."

But you're right about the turning radius on the Fords. Geebus. It got better with the coil front end, but that never got carried over to the Excursion.

 

[Ron]

I tell you what, man. You and @rockcity are the worst. Get a couple of beers in you, and you poor mouth the hell out of your trucks. It's all "I don't know if I'm going to make it home, it's going to run out of fuel on me again, I forgot my spare set of injectors, I think the DPF/EGR/oil cooler/FICM/turbo has taken a dump again, the front end is shot I can't keep it in my lane." Then you get on the internet, and it's all "I put 300k miles on this truck, never had to do a thing to it, still on the first tank of fuel."

But you're right about the turning radius on the Fords. Geebus. It got better with the coil front end, but that never got carried over to the Excursion.

I've never had any issues with my truck other than deleting the EGR system at 175k miles.
Never an injector issue. Never a FICM issue. Dont have a DPF. Never a turbo issue, and never touched the front end. In fact the factory Rancho shocks have 270k on them and their still hanging around. I did have to replace a radiator hose the other day.Damn thing rubbed a hole in it. And I did have a caliper bust on me in Wilmington that got fixed thanx to an awesome dude off here. Oh and the seat is starting to wear a tad and Ive rubbed a hole in the brake pedal at the edge.

 

[Jody Treadway]

Sounds like kids are too damn expensive.
I'll stick to a Focus and a clapped out 7.3

 

[Jody Treadway]

Oh yeah, I was waiting on @shawn and @Ron to start their pissin' match!

 

[Altonymous]

They're expensive, but kids are worth every penny.

 

[Paul]

lol UMADBRO?

Ford sucks.
7.3 = 12 hp but will last forever!
6.0 = well, you know.
6.7 = Ford suckassness.

 

[frankenyoter]

Ford sucks.
7.3 = 12 hp but will last forever!
6.0 = well, you know.
6.7 = Ford suckassness.

LOL!

 

[shawn]

I've never had any issues with my truck other than deleting the EGR system at 175k miles.
Never an injector issue. Never a FICM issue. Dont have a DPF. Never a turbo issue, and never touched the front end. In fact the factory Rancho shocks have 270k on them and their still hanging around. I did have to replace a radiator hose the other day.Damn thing rubbed a hole in it. And I did have a caliper bust on me in Wilmington that got fixed thanx to an awesome dude off here. Oh and the seat is starting to wear a tad and Ive rubbed a hole in the brake pedal at the edge.

... like I said...

For the record, I don't think there's a "right" answer here. But the economics of the Tahoe/Suburban are hard to deny.

 

[drkelly]

Why are used 2014 Suburban's and Tahoe's so cheap? What do they cost new? I honestly have no idea. I sort of stopped keeping up with cars and truck prices over 10 yrs ago. I was extremely shocked when you posted a new Sequia was $60k. I would have guessed $35-40k.

 

[Ron]

In the right markets you can find 1 year old off-lease, program, demo, and off rental 2014 Tahoe/Suburbans for +/- $30k depending on options. Shawn and I started this whole convo because I just bought my wife one.
We were intending on spending ~$20k on a 5 year old one only to find 5 year old ones were still 25k and had 100k miles while we could get '14s for <$30k with 20k miles that stickered new for $50k+

Supply and demand. The tahoe/suburban is the most popular fleet or rental SUV and its not even close. When those fleets turn they flood the market for a short term.

 

[Hurley]

Ford sucks.
7.3 = 12 hp but will last forever!
6.0 = well, you know.
6.7 = Ford suckassness.

haha someone call Rudy's and get their take on it BU


I'm all for getting the wife a newer minivan/CUV/shut up and drive it, and buy a 'dedicated tow rig' truck.

 

[flatblackzj]

here's a couple questions for you-How far do you plan on towing & how many hills are involved? How frequently is it going to be a tow rig? how many DD miles and family trips are you using it on? What fuel mileage is acceptable loaded & unloaded? find what makes sense for the best balance of usage. for occasional towing and heavy dd/family use, a 1500 sub would fit the bill. for frequent heavy towing and light dd/family purposes, diesel in the 3/4 ton flavor would work better. for towing/interior room purposes a sub beats a durango from its longer wheelbase.

 

[josh m]

What about a jeep commander? We used to have a 06 limited. Wish we had never sold it.

 

[Altonymous]

here's a couple questions for you-How far do you plan on towing & how many hills are involved? How frequently is it going to be a tow rig? how many DD miles and family trips are you using it on? What fuel mileage is acceptable loaded & unloaded? find what makes sense for the best balance of usage. for occasional towing and heavy dd/family use, a 1500 sub would fit the bill. for frequent heavy towing and light dd/family purposes, diesel in the 3/4 ton flavor would work better. for towing/interior room purposes a sub beats a durango from its longer wheelbase.

Appreciate the feedback. Primarily going to be a DD, occasional tow usage during summer/spring months to a local lake, 5-6 long trips a year hauling nothing, and 1 long trip a year hauling a boat (~6k lbs).

We looked a Suburban but you really feel the extra 1.5' length using it as a DD. Sure the cargo capacity is double and it was a strong puller, but more often than not we don't need that much extra cargo space.. but we always have to live with the 1.5' extra length. So we are still leaning towards a Durango.

What about a jeep commander? We used to have a 06 limited. Wish we had never sold it.

The Jeep Commander just doesn't have any cargo space when all the seats are in, that just doesn't make it practical for us TBH. Otherwise it's got a lot of nice features, and such but in the end practicality wins out in this case.

 

[catfishblues]

Appreciate the feedback. Primarily going to be a DD, occasional tow usage during summer/spring months to a local lake, 5-6 long trips a year hauling nothing, and 1 long trip a year hauling a boat (~6k lbs).

We looked a Suburban but you really feel the extra 1.5' length using it as a DD. Sure the cargo capacity is double and it was a strong puller, but more often than not we don't need that much extra cargo space.. but we always have to live with the 1.5' extra length. So we are still leaning towards a Durango.

For what it's worth, I grew up driving a K5 (V10) Burb and drive a Yukon XL daily now. Yeah, it's longer, but I park it everywhere I go, including parallel parking downtown. My buddy's '14 extra cab short bed Silverado is longer, believe it or not, and has a much worse turning radius. I thought with the IFS, the radius on the Yukon was going to be worse than I was used to, but I can stick it about anywhere. If I can't, then I probably not wanted there!

 

[flatblackzj]

you have some very good points, for cargo space it would depend on if you need cargo space as well as the third row seating at the same time. using the third row in a durango, you don't have much space left behind the seat, if you don't need the space at the same time as the third row, then the durango would be the better way to go.
on the other end, for your towing purposes, a v6 or 4.7 durango would be out of the question, leaving you with the 5.7. The 5.7 is a solid unit with good power, but 4wd durangos have a tendency to be thirsty, especially under load.
even though the sub is physically bigger, it's hard to beat the efficiency of LS-based engines, the last couple of them that i've had routinely beat the mpg ratings and lasted past the 250k mileage mark without engine or transmission issues(don't even try to tow heavy in OD, it kills 4l60e's quickly)

 

[rockcity]

I never had an issue with my 6.0 other than FICM, 2 injectors, and EGR valve. Never even spent more than $300 on oil changes, total, in 4 years and 280k miles.