Volunteer Trail Patrol

[DRaider90]

I have been going back and forth on posting this for a number of reasons, but when it boils down to it I figure this is something that we need feedback on.

The concept is very basic, we volunteer to patrol the trails. And to be blunt but honest we will have to start out with no immediate authority what so ever.

This is all based on the ideal that some kind of presence on the trails is better than none at all. Just think about the people a while back walking around with clip boards. People on here almost freaked about it. Now think about someone in a basic uniform walking around on the trails taking pictures/taking notes etc.

The major hurdle is the end game. Because at some point there has to be something to back our actions up. If there are no re-percussions then eventually voulnteers will be ignored.

Other hurdles like confrontations will arise. Trust me I spent a couple hours with a couple friends from here on NC4X4, talking about all the scenarios. Volunteers would have to be aware of their surroundings and able to avoid confrontations with irate people on the trails. Think about the drunk wheelers at night.

We would start off simple with documenting offenders and reporting them to Terry Savery. The next step would to develop a communications system with officer Foote (sp?) when he is on duty. So when the vehicle leave the trails etc he could be there to deal with the violators by relaying to him where they are coming out at/description etc. And we could keep going from there.

Some basic ideas have been hammered out:

-Basic Uniform: A Green or Orange t-shirt with an official "Volunteer Patrol" logo. Blue-Jeans/pants etc. Something simple but effective enough to get people's attention.

-Strobes/Flashers: Something to draw attention to your vehicle, and to have an "official" appearance. Legal issues wouldn't allow the use of blue and red, or probably green but we could be just as effect with clear/amber and amber/red.

-Camera/Clipboard: Not only tools to document offenders, but tools to raise awareness. People take notice of someone documenting/recording information.



Its a very simple set up. You decide you are going trail riding this weekend. You wear the volunteer patrol shirt, just ride the trails and keep an eye out. When you happen upon groups/etc you park, put the strobes on and just observe/document. You use common sense to avoid confrontations and in turn you get people talking/wondering.

You report offenders to Terry via email etc. And people start getting tickets or what ever action that needs to be taken.

So what are your ideas/comments/suggestions on this. This if done correctly with the correct people could be a very effective tool in our fight to keep the trails open. Its the same idea as reporting offenders that was discussed at the Zoo, but with a more official approach.

 

[jusjeepin94xj]

I say Im down my rig broke on the trail last year was dark and tryin to fix the problem drunk guy and buddys hit the side of the jeep 2 min before I was layin under !!!!

 

[Sal-XK]

Well it seems to me that anyone can do what is described above without wearing a uniform or strobed lights drawing attention to themselves or making themselves a giant target. I think taking a picture of rigs and plates and acting like your just having fun is safer, then report the problem or violator as soon as its safe. Now pulling up with lights flashing wearing a uniform going up to a bunch of drunk dudes who then realize what your doing is a real bad situation trust me. Really with no authority and all by your self in the middle of the woods is a bad spot to be in even if you our armed and with being on federal property I think your CC license is no good. You would also have to worry about retaliation against you or your rig. If I saw something worth reporting I would go over with my camera and a big smile telling them how cool there rig is and can I get picture or just take pictures and if they ask just say I always take pictures of cool rigs on the trails let me get your email I will send you a copy. Then later with no threat to my safety report the violator and hand the evidence over.
Just a side thought if you were in a uniform and marked truck people would then behave them selves kinda like driving threw a speed trap you slow down then everyone takes off once there threw the trap. Same thing people behaving staying on marked trails but as soon as your gone they do what they want. I think the idea is sound but should be done I hate to use the word but undercover so to speak. Set up a channel for us to communicate with officer Todd all the things you talked about but just do it anonymous. Just my opinion brother I would be glad to help out with anything you got going I would even volunteer to do safety/medical patrols on the trails if there is a need.

 

[DRaider90]

Thanks for posting up replies both of you. Good to hear your input Sal, I was wondering what you and some of the others would think about this.

The confrontation hurdle is one of the biggest issues we face with any kind of public show of patroling. I agree we will need to do a lot of stuff low key/covertly. But the amount of impact any kind of "official" presence out there is too big to dismiss all together. Knowing there are patrols out there will make a huge impact on the way people think/act out there.

I would like to start this off on the low key/covert end. No uniforms, no strobes/marked trucks etc. Get a set number of people out there taking pictures/notes and establish a reporting system with the Forest Service and get all the ground work laid out. This will include getting officer Foote a CB Radio and/or some way to communicate with the wheelers. HAM would be better, but I know its not as popular as CB.

I am thinking communication with Janet and the other Campsite hosts would be key also. I know a lot of people stay campside, but if we could get vehicle descriptions etc to them they could be another set of eyes on the lookout.

Lets put a timeline on this and get the ball rolling. Lets say our first test run of this will be the next work day. By then we should have a lot of ground work laid out, and a good idea of what we are getting ourselves into. Now in an ideal security situation you would want people that have prior/current military experience or police/security background. But this isn't that situation. If you want to get involved with the Test phase of the Volunteer Patrol Squad send me a PM or E-Mail after reading the following:

A.)You must be able to enteract with people in varied situations. If you aren't a people person then this probably isn't for you. In the worst case scenario (even on the low key end) you have to be able to take a possibly hostile situation and turn it around.

B.)Prior Military/Police/Security background-experience is great, but of course not nessecary.

C.)Going along with A. you will have to be quite disciplined and level headed under pressure. Again there may be situations that arise that will take you staying calm, level headed, and being able to clear cut decisions on what to do.

D.)Of course you will need to be actively going out to Uwharrie, and for the Test Phase being apart of the Volunteer Days. When we get beyond the Test Phase there will be more opportunities, but right now we want to Test this out under the more controlled environment of the work days.

This up coming work day we will have a brief Security meeting after the Forest Service meeting wraps up at the Hunt Camp. Who knows we may not encounter anyone violating the FS rules on the work day, but we will see.

 

[kaiser715]

HAM would be better,

Just an FYI...HAM (amateur radio) would be legal for (licensed) volunteers to use...any forest service personnel could not, as it would cross into 'business use' rules (as they are paid to do their job).

I'm not sure of the rules, but GMRS could be an option. A repeater would be a possible solution, that could likely cover the entire ORV. (of course, that's $$ for tower, antenna, etc (and somewhere to locate)...plus repeater-capable GMRS units are not as cheap as the Mallwart bubble-packs).

Money would be much better spent on materials and supplies for direct trail maintenance.

 

[DRaider90]

In all honesty I don't think dumping money into this right now is a good idea. Through some basic resources and what most people all ready have hopefully we can get something basic set up. Then worry about money/equipment later as/if they come up.

I did some searching and the idea of a Trail Patrol is nothing new. Actually there is one for the Rubicon, one set up for the state of Utah, etc etc.

I like that they have a broader focus that I think could be implemented well.

They will help if you need it, to the extent that they are personally qualified, but don't be expecting any heart surgery, for yourself or your machine, out on the trail. Some of them are EMTs, Certified Mechanics, off duty police, or other highly skilled professionals. They volunteer their time out on the trail to aid the State Parks and Recreation, US Forest Service and BLM in maintaining safety of the trails and on the trails. Their service on these trails is what helps to keep them open for our use, as they would otherwise run the risk to be closed for lack of appropriate supervision.

And I like this:

A Trail Patrol member is not an authorized law enforcement officer, (unless they are otherwise thus designated by virtue of their employment) so there is no need to worry about them being there to bust you for trampling the saplings in the meadow you just plowed through. However, they are likely to offer you some literature on the principles of TREAD LIGHTLY and suggest that you consider compliance with these principles on future rides.

But I think we should still plan on reporting people when nessecary.

Maybe its just be but this approach would be better than the first one I had discussed with a few others.

If you are out there helping people, plus looking for violations, it comes across better. I know out at uwharrie people are usually always ready to help, but this way it would be an organized effort also.

 

[Sal-XK]

I would be down with patrolling the trails if it was fully endorsed by the FS. I would be glad to patrol as a medic/safety/information contact and a general reporter of violators on the trail. I don't think it would work with out the FS endorsing and managing it.

 

[DRaider90]

I would be down with patrolling the trails if it was fully endorsed by the FS. I would be glad to patrol as a medic/safety/information contact and a general reporter of violators on the trail. I don't think it would work with out the FS endorsing and managing it.

I know we would report to the Forest Service, and we can get them to endorse the group/support it. But in all reality we will have to regulate ourselves as a group of volunteers. I think with the caliber of people we have on this board it shouldn't be too difficult. It would be awesome to have you on board. I have all ready sent Terry messages about this, so we will see what she says. I don't see them having any issues with it.

Here is a cool picture I found from another patrol group:

 

[Sal-XK]

thats pretty cool as long as the FS gives permission for us to do it then no problem.

 

[shawn]

I think the foundation here is a little skewed. Just reading through the comments, there seems to be a disproportionate focus on having strobes and uniforms and other 'official' trappings, then riding around the forest looking for people breaking the rules.

No wonder you're worried about having an adversarial relationship with the public -- you've set yourself up for it from the start.

If you're going to do this, the focus needs to be on providing assistance first. Helping with vehicle recovery, first aid, medical transport, SAR, just giving fawking directions to people that are lost. And you don't need a uniform or a badge or strobe lights or a clipboard or a secret club forum to do any of those things.

 

[Bobby D.]

I think the foundation here is a little skewed. ...No wonder you're worried about having an adversarial relationship with the public -- you've set yourself up for it from the start.

If you're going to do this, the focus needs to be on providing assistance first. Helping with vehicle recovery, first aid, medical transport, SAR, just giving fawking directions to people that are lost. And you don't need a uniform or a badge or strobe lights or a clipboard or a secret club forum to do any of those things.

X2

Draider,
IMHO It sounds like to me you're looking for trouble or a fight, or confrontation. I get super pissed when I see people fucking up in the forest. I actually rode with a group of people that are known as a frat boy wannabe wheelers.
there is law enforcement already in place. we need to learn how to use the proper resources that are already in place there. I know there isn't enough authority figures in the forest. we need to just be a responsible wheelers and do the right thing.


Who is this terry person? what is there contact information?

This is the official person that I met at the zoo get together. we need to be reporting violations to the lady that is located in this post:
http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94334&highlight=

 

[Jeff B]

trail police? really? With out any official power to back you up I see a big FAIL.

 

[cj777]

I think the foundation here is a little skewed. Just reading through the comments, there seems to be a disproportionate focus on having strobes and uniforms and other 'official' trappings, then riding around the forest looking for people breaking the rules.

No wonder you're worried about having an adversarial relationship with the public -- you've set yourself up for it from the start.

If you're going to do this, the focus needs to be on providing assistance first. Helping with vehicle recovery, first aid, medical transport, SAR, just giving fawking directions to people that are lost. And you don't need a uniform or a badge or strobe lights or a clipboard or a secret club forum to do any of those things.

x 2 I don't see the need for an "official" group with uniforms and lights. What you're proposing just seems like what we should all be doing as proponents of the Forest system. I don't know why there needs to be a title or a special group for that.

 

[retroedaddy]

x 2 I don't see the need for an "official" group with uniforms and lights. What you're proposing just seems like what we should all be doing as proponents of the Forest system. I don't know why there needs to be a title or a special group for that.

Come on man,"Official" Uniforms would be cool,and a secret hand shake!!!!!!!!!!Hahaha,Seriously X3 to what both of you are saying.We should all be good stewards to the woods/Trails when we are out there.We should all stop when we get a second and pick up cans,trash and I think it's actually possible to correct people without being condescending.I gotta agree though,strobes,uniforms,and all that would only do more to draw a line between us.

 

[Reid]

trail police? really? With out any official power to back you up I see a big FAIL.

you could always form an Unorganized Militia and have Constitutional Authority.

 

[Tech11]

Based on what was said at the last work day. The BEST thing we can do to help keep our trails open is to volunteer.

This last workday had a great turn out. Hopefully as things cool down we will see even more people turn out. I know that as it cools down the work needing to be done will increase and we need all the volunteers we can get.

I really don't think there is anything we can do to stop the people that are screwing up from doing whatever the hell they want. If they gave a crap they'd not be off the trails not pitching Busch cans all over the place.

I also think if they are tearassing all over they probably aren't gonna be shy of handing out an asswhooping for some dude trying to "ruirn their fun".

I think volunteer as much as you can, c lean up as much as you can. While it sucks to have to clean up after assholes, it beats getting shut down because of them.

 

[Your Hot Dog Guy!]

^^^^^so true^^^^^

 

[Your Hot Dog Guy!]

As far as a tower erected in the forest......took me six months to aquire a permit to sell a Hot Dog! I had to agree that I wouldn't drill for core samples! I'm carrying $2,000,000.00 worth of insurance to stand in a parking lot! And the idea is to erect a tower! Rethink this and go with another plan.

 

[ol'Jeeps]

Yea...just what we need...

...bunch of self appointed "Barney Fifes" patrolling the woods looking for someone who doesn't meet their definition of offroading!

I suggest just using peer pressure! Police our own! You see something going on, tell em about it. If they make an issue of it, then report it. One thing we dont need is a bunch of wining unhappy tattle tales running around the woods feeding the forestry service more fuel for the anti-offroad establishment to use against us!

 

[DRaider90]

I will say the original idea of patroling for the sole purpose of reporting people isn't a good idea. I will admit it right here. I tried to post that in my earlier post, but I guess it got missed.

If we approach this as a patrol to educate and assist others first and foremost it could work. Reporting people would have to be a lesser focus, but still there.

Who is this terry person? what is there contact information?

This is the official person that I met at the zoo get together. we need to be reporting violations to the lady that is located in this post:
http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94334&highlight=

Terry Savery is the same person. Theresa Stevens Savery, or as most refer to her as Terry Savery.

I think some are missing the fact, This isn't a new extreme idea.

Rubicon Volunteer Trail Patrol (RUBICON TRAIL)
Utah OHV Volunteer Trail Patrol (State Wide)
Colorado OHV Volunteer Trail Patrol (State Wide)

That is just to name a few. So if we don't do this, its not because its not possible its because we don't want to.

Currently there is one LEO at Uwharrie. That is it, just one. And he has no means of going on the trails. So its up to us if we want to change the current situation on the trails. Other wise all we are doing is complaining about it, and not doing anything.

All of the people on the confrontation or picking a fight etc bandwagon take a second to read this from the Colorado program:

What is the Colorado Trail Patrol?
The Colorado Trail Patrol is a volunteer group with an objective to mitigate improper land use of public lands in an effort to protect our natural resources for future generations to enjoy.

We are a second set of eyes and ears.

The Colorado Trail Patrol is a volunteer group that assists in monitoring roads and trails on public lands. The patrol?s purpose is to be an extra set of eyes and ears for law enforcement and land management agencies. However the patrol does not have any law enforcement rights or obligations. The cornerstones of the patrol are OBSERVING and REPORTING.

Safety is #1
Despite natural tendencies to confront someone when they are behaving inappropriately, the Colorado Trail Patrol encourages volunteers to avoid this at all costs. Volunteers are trained to observe and report. Why? Because approaching someone you do not know can result in injury. Safety is the number one concern of the patrol volunteer. Observations while on patrol are non-confrontational conducted in a way to protect volunteers.
When can I patrol and where?
? Volunteers can patrol any time they are on the trail ? they don?t have to sign up for a given trail on a given day.
? Patrols are limited to public lands, but not limited to roads or OHV trails.
? Once trained you can patrol state wide, or even nation wide since this is a national program.
Volunteers on patrol:
? Observe illegal activities
? Accurately identify people and vehicles
? Fill out a brief report and submit it to www.staythetrail.org. Stay The Trail then hands the appropriate reports to the land management agencie where the issue occurred.
Who can be a volunteer?
Anyone interested that is over the age of 18 can volunteer to be a Patrol member. The Colorado Trail Patrol does have one stipulation: No weapons of any kind while on patrol. NO EXCEPTIONS. This is a saftey and liability precaution.
Is there a training course?
Yes. Volunteers must be properly trained about rules and regulations, as well as how to handle certain situations encountered on patrol. Training and orientation takes approximately 2 hours. Volunteers are then certified to patrol, and must sign a written agreement that they are a volunteer of Stay The Trail?s Colorado Trail Patrol program and will comply with its mission and the laws set forth by law enforcement agencies.

How do I sign up?
Email Val at valerie@staythetrail.org to be put on the list for a class. Classes are being scheduled across the state.
Also, if anyone would be interested in becoming a trainer, please don't hesitate to volunteer

And if you re-read through my first post I haven't mentioned anything beyond that. Nothing about getting in fights with people etc. To quote myself:

We would start off simple with documenting offenders and reporting them to Terry Savery. The next step would to develop a communications system with officer Foote (sp?) when he is on duty. So when the vehicle leave the trails etc he could be there to deal with the violators by relaying to him where they are coming out at/description etc. And we could keep going from there.

And the strobe light and uniform issue is being blown out of proportion. Wearing a T-shirt with a logo on it isn't a huge deal. And the strobe thing wasn't a demanded requirement, it was just an idea.

If we encorperate what Colorado has as far as a system of reporting people, along with the Utah System that educates, promotes treading lightly, and helping in break downs, medical situations etc we can have a working Volunteer Trail Patrol program.

So its doable. But if the general public doesn't want to do this then I will drop it. I will be blunt, if we don't want to resolve this problem our selves then we don't need to have any more threads about drunk wheelers, people littering, etc.

 

[shawn]

And if you re-read through my first post I haven't mentioned anything beyond that. Nothing about getting in fights with people etc. To quote myself:

I dunno, maybe I'm getting the wrong impression here. But it's easy to understand why: aside from the little cherry-picked bit you quoted, you spent the entire post talking about what color the strobe lights would be, what sort of uniforms the hall monitors would wear, and where they would park their vehicles while they got out, clipboard and camera in hand, to 'document' violations.

I mean, you have three entire paragraphs talking about how to avoid confrontations with the public.

 

[DRaider90]

Again I agree my focus in the first post wasn't where it should have been.

And the confrontation issues was focused on because I knew it would come up. I was trying to avoid multiple pages of arguments about that particular issue. But obviously it didn't work.

My point was we can patrol the trails, help others, and be a positive influence in an organized group without getting in confrontations, starting fights, etc. And the fact that there are other established OHV Volunteer Patrols (especially the Rubicon Trail) shows this.

 

[Yay!Gurrr]

I think these posts detract from what NC4x4 can do.

What do you think people think when they read these posts?

1) These guys are barny fifes who spend all day planning about organizing a trail patrol.

2) These guys can get the job done. Cordinate/organize/execute, trail work days. Gain (good) attention for their cause, and better volunteer efforts.


So far there has been:
Volunteer Sticker BS
Road Cone discussions
Trail Patrol discussions

Did I miss any?

How we doing on the rock garden ?

 

[Tech11]

I think these posts detract from what NC4x4 can do.

What do you think people think when they read these posts?

1) These guys are barny fifes who spend all day planning about organizing a trail patrol.

2) These guys can get the job done. Cordinate/organize/execute, trail work days. Gain (good) attention for their cause, and better volunteer efforts.


So far there has been:
Volunteer Sticker BS
Road Cone discussions
Trail Patrol discussions

Did I miss any?

How we doing on the rock garden ?

http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showpost.php?p=757869&postcount=29

 

[rolling_down_the_hill]

its an idea people. dont nitpick it to death. think of it like a blueprint for a house. you see somethin that doesnt look good or needs to be addressed deal with it and move on to the next stage. ie.. uniforms stobes= out... helping people on trails, directions, fixing crap, givin someone a ride ect...= in, then move to next stage. just like breaking ground on the lot to build the house, nothin definative yet just moving forward. more issues come up ex.. the house is in the setback move it 2 ft towards rear property line. problem came up problem solved. just like worryn (cant spell it) about barny 5 runnin amouck.= current issue.

i do have a feeling this will get misconstrued or missunderstood but i hope my analogies help a little. just remember the general base for the idea isnt a bad one, just needs to be fine tuned over time without belittling every small issue at once. heres a paid for with my 2cents