Volunteer Trail Patrol

Look the important thing is we have a motivated dedicated person (Eli) that has dedicated a large portion of his time to organize the trail work days. It's easy if you have money to give some and feel good about it. It's harder to show up and work and a big pain in a** to be in charge of all this stuff. I know Eli gets pretty carried away with things and I've said this before in another post as a leader men myself I would rather have to rein in a person then have to constantly light a fire under his butt to motivate him. We all have to remember that his heart and motivations are in the correct place. I was doing just that in my replies in this thread trying to pull him back a little just in a nicer way. Let,s keep our eye on the ball here gentlemen and that is the trails we love so much.

Eli, I've told you this before I admire your dedication to the cause and you are doing a good job. I do think everyone here is somewhat correct about the first impression given when you read this thread and that is of the uniform Barny fife thing. I just think they could of done it with a little less sarcasm.
 
My question is this, what qualifications are needed for these "patrols" and what is to stop these from reporting violations in blown out proportions about someone, some group, or some vehicle because these did not meet the "patrolman's" ideal of being correct? If you report me for having loud exhaust then you better have a noise meter to back it up! If you accuse me of speeding then you better have a damn radar gun {calibrated} with a printout when you bring your accusations. To many gun-hos out there wanting to carry that one bullet in thier shirt pocket for me! You keep emphasizing no confrontations to avoid fights, well , when you waltz into a group of drunk "good ol' boys" and begin to tell them why they are wrong in doing something that you observed, don't be surprised that one or more of them may open a can of "whoop-ass" on you right there! Our best tool is information, given out to anyone entering. We've got enough government in our hobby as it is. Help the FS handout literature and rules at the gates and entrances. Don't give any one the right to enforce their own translations of the rules. Just trying, I guess to say this" For every action there is a reaction". So if this is used by the wrong ones or info given that can be used by opposition to OHV. Don't start crying that it wasn't meant to be used in that way. Something this small with all the good intentions can and will be used negatively by someone or some group! And for the record, I don't care how they do it in Colorado or Utah. check all the vehicle laws and OSHA laws, and remember, all that started with "That's how they do it in California" BET YOU A COLD COCA_COLA!
 
Trail Patrol

I spoke with Eli about this idea a couple weeks ago and I really think he presented this to the masses the completely wrong way. I do not agree with Eli with his approach to this idea. Uniforms,strobe lights and clipboards are not necessary, I do however think that the trail patrol vehicles should be mark in one way or another, just so there easily identified. I agree with most of the members here that a trail patrol, should be more of a AAA of the trails. Going out helping people that are stuck, broke down, lost, etc.. I don't think the purpose of this "organization" should be going out looking for rule breakers. But if you have to see someone breaking the rules make a mental note of it, and if something does happen where the LEO need information you'll have it for them. I think that if the FS thought they needed more of a police presence there they would establish one. But I really don't understand why there isn't more education available to the people who use the trails. Every time that I've gone I've bought a trail pass and went on my merry way. The only posting of rules that I have see at URE are on the message boards going into the park. I have to give people the benefit of the doubt and presume that they just don't know better. Unfortunately I don't think this applies when it comes to the trash on the trails, it's common sense don't litter. On this matter I spoke with Eli, about hosting an education day close to opening day of the park and through out the year. I suggested that maybe we could hand out flyers and trash bags to people who are planning on using the park for OHV purposes. I was in scouts for 10 years and one fundamental thing that they teach you, when you go outdoors is to pack out what you pack in and leave the trail/campground nicer than when you arrived. We need to show the masses that we care about the park, and that where just not out there "producing silt into the streams". I think that if we can break the public's impression that all four wheelers are bad four wheelers that we could then proceed with new trails/obstacles. Just my .02
 
One last time I am going to say in my initial post I went about present this idea the wrong way. Not going to say it again.

The focus of the Patrol group is going to be:

1.)Helping others on the trails. This involves mechanical break downs, first aid, and any other general help we can offer. This includes people that are lost on the trails.

2.)Educating wheelers about the trail system, treading lightly, etc.

3.)Setting the standard. While out on the trails peforming basic trail maintenance including picking up trash etc when you stop/get out. This will visually show people what we should be doing, and essentially leading by example.

4.)Lastly is observing and reporting. When possible you observe from the side lines, mentally or otherwise document what is going on, and report it to Terry Savery. This doesn't involve confronting the offenders etc.

There will be requirements:

1.)Attending a training/orientation class once a year every year you are apart of the patrol. Must be at least 18 years old.

2.)There will be indentification options. The basics will be a t-shirt with indentification/logo, plus some kind of vehicle identification. Anything beyond that is purely up to you, like reflective vests etc.

3.)Your 4x4 will need to be equipped with a First Aid Kit. Fire Extinguisher and CB Radio are optional but recommended.

4.)You will need to report the time/dates you patrol, and what you observed, and any occurances.

5.)Educational and other supplies will be provided for you (maps, flyers, etc). You will be responsible for keeping them with you and distributing them while patroling.

Mission Statement:

Our goal is to not only help keep the OHV Trail system open, but assit our fellow wheelers in safely enjoying the trail system to its fullest extent. This involves helping in any way we can, educating when possible, leading by example, and being a second set of eyes for the Forest Service and Forest Service LEOs.


Its up to you to decide what you want to get out of the Volunteer Patrol Group. You patrol when you can, and on what trails you can. There isn't a required number of patrols you must make, but you will be required to be active.
 
I'm going to weigh in a little from experience here if ya'll don't mind. I used to do a lot at URE from the maintenance/volunteer standpoint. A few times we had FS personnel riding with us who could write tickets. What a surprise it was when a regular old Jeep pulls up and out steps a FS employee with ticket book in hand! It was fun!
But very soon, the offenders figured out who hauled them around and they (ATV's mostly) would turn around and run as soon as they saw us.
Until there is a FS mandated reporting process for offenders you're basically going to be meter maids without any authority. We beat this problem to death way back when.
The best thing to do IMO, is to help and inform, and TEACH. Note a license plate of a vehicle and description of an ATV and just report if problems are seen. Confronting people out there may get you shot or assaulted.
 
R Q said:
I'm going to weigh in a little from experience here if ya'll don't mind. I used to do a lot at URE from the maintenance/volunteer standpoint. A few times we had FS personnel riding with us who could write tickets. What a surprise it was when a regular old Jeep pulls up and out steps a FS employee with ticket book in hand! It was fun!
But very soon, the offenders figured out who hauled them around and they (ATV's mostly) would turn around and run as soon as they saw us.
Until there is a FS mandated reporting process for offenders you're basically going to be meter maids without any authority. We beat this problem to death way back when.
The best thing to do IMO, is to help and inform, and TEACH. Note a license plate of a vehicle and description of an ATV and just report if problems are seen. Confronting people out there may get you shot or assaulted.
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I have heard about this in the past. I think it was Bruce and others would usually have Forest Service riding with them and eventually people automatically expected FS to be with them when ever their vehicles were around.

And again observing and reporting is just that. You don't confront the people, you observe from a distance, take note, and then report it later. You don't got stirring the pot.
 
DRaider90 said:
You don't confront the people, you observe from a distance, take note, and then report it later. You don't got stirring the pot.
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OK, then why do you need this?
DRaider90 said:
2. There will be indentification options. The basics will be a t-shirt with indentification/logo, plus some kind of vehicle identification. Anything beyond that is purely up to you, like reflective vests etc.
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Put me down for two strobes and a vest!


If I see people doing extremely dumb and dangerous stuff...I don't whip out a clipboard, I walk over and say "hey man, the rangers sorta frown on that, be cool so we can keep this place open." With strobes running , a vest, and a clipboard people seem to get put off right away. (check some of the threads on here about LEO's and how much offroaders seem to like and respect them)
 
I think that Organizing this and keeping it going would be a impossible task and it would eventually fail.

My Suggestion is

Post a big Warning Sign like this on each trail head

This Trail is monitored by Fellow offroaders
Keep our trails open.
All vehicles must stay on officially marked trails
Violators will be reported to Law enforcement.
to report violators call (123-456-7890)
or email XX@XXX.com

Smile your on Camera

and then everyone that uses the trail system could report issues and not just us here on nc4x4
 
Ridgerunner said:
I think that Organizing this and keeping it going would be a impossible task and it would eventually fail.
My Suggestion is
Post a big Warning Sign like this on each trail head
This Trail is monitored by Fellow offroaders
Keep our trails open.
All vehicles must stay on officially marked trails
Violators will be reported to Law enforcement.
to report violators call (123-456-7890)
or email XX@XXX.com
Smile your on Camera
and then everyone that uses the trail system could report issues and not just us here on nc4x4
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But they wouldn't have strobes & uniforms, nor law enforcememnt backgrounds.:shaking:
 
BIGWOODY said:
Put me down for two strobes and a vest!
If I see people doing extremely dumb and dangerous stuff...I don't whip out a clipboard, I walk over and say "hey man, the rangers sorta frown on that, be cool so we can keep this place open." With strobes running , a vest, and a clipboard people seem to get put off right away. (check some of the threads on here about LEO's and how much offroaders seem to like and respect them)
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Thats the way to do it. If you walk up in a vest with strobes, your going to get treated like a rent a cop, and you won't like that. If you walk up, being a fellow wheeler, your much more likely to be treated with respect, and get the point across.

Maybe put some sort of trashbag dispenser near common camping areas, give out trash bags, cost is minimal, and can't hurt to have trashbag access, some people will still be assholes, but others nearby may take the time to bag it up if there is a bag nearby, just one idea, no idea if its been discussed.

People being assholes, need to be handled as such, sometimes a confrontation can't be avoided. Just my opinion.
 
Do the rangers have means of getting down the trails? Im sure they have fourwheelers but maybe we could try to get involved with letting rangers ride with us down the trails in our 4x4s. Just a thought.
 
Basically, they don't have the man power to patrol the trail and don't have a way access the trail even if they did. They do have a couple of ATVs but the FS regs on their use makes them worthless for trail patrol.
 
JC said:
Basically, they don't have the man power to patrol the trail and don't have a way access the trail even if they did. They do have a couple of ATVs but the FS regs on their use makes them worthless for trail patrol.
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Do you think it would be feasible to have them ride along with volunteers along the trails then? I would think they would like to have a 4x4 on the trails with a FS employee atleast during the weekends not only for tickets but you can't throw a injured person on a four wheeler to easily.
 
98xjjeep said:
Do you think it would be feasible to have them ride along with volunteers along the trails then? I would think they would like to have a 4x4 on the trails with a FS employee atleast during the weekends not only for tickets but you can't throw a injured person on a four wheeler to easily.
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This would be awesome, but its hard enough getting Forest Service out there for the work days once a month on the weekends. It was funny when Terry Savery rode with me doing Trail Inventory on Daniel, watching the people on the trails that encountered us. They automatically grab for seat betls etc. It was fun actually.
 
98xjjeep said:
you can't throw a injured person on a four wheeler too easily.
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I didn't quite get the logic of how you got to 'how to transport injured people,' but it does bring up a good point... having a group of people willing to volunteer as 'guides' regularly on the trails is great for giving directions or maybe even some spotting help, but folks that are Red Cross certified in first aid could, at the very least, assess an injury and know the basics to make sure someone gets where they need to be.

One trip, several years ago, we saw a couple of people on atvs (in groups, many looking to be fairly inexperienced) fall off going downhill, then came upon a group of people on horses and one woman had fallen and hit/was bleeding from her head... We ended up transporting her and her husband down to the stables so the vet, at least, could take a look at her. We went as slow as we could to not bump her around too much, she was in a lot of pain... but she'd already been moved when we encountered them and we had no idea or way to know how badly she was hurt, other than basically out-dated first aid training at the time.
 
I'm Red Cross first responder trained as well as all the training I get from the military. I carry a pretty extensive aid bag with splints, fluids, tracheotomy kit, and all kinds of bandages and stuff to stop bleeding. First Aid and handing out general information is what I would volunteer to do on the trails besides the normal workdays. The problem with accidents is they draw crowds and someone always seems to think they no best maybe because they saw something on tv LOL. Its hard to actually get to the victim lots of times because of those crowds will get territorial over the victim I Know weird right. I've been guilty of this myself before being trained and shown how to get past those people properly. So being part of a offcial patrol sanctioned by the FS would help a lot. Just having a T-shirt and being able to say Uwharrie medical patrol would help in getting to the victim. On my home from my last trip a truck pulling a camper rolled on the highway. No crap about 15 cars had stopped blocking all approaches to the wreck for rescue. I stopped and grabbed my bag and was met by some dude who was obviously taking charge of the situation yelling at me to move. Well ignoring him which I was not taught to do by the way I scanned all the victims and the helpers to asses the situation. The hole time I had this dudes attention because well this was he's accident seen he was the first dude who pulled over that makes mine right. Any way just as I was about to give him the talk thing to nicely put him in his place I saw an ambulance pulling up and this dude darted all the way over there to talk to the paramedics remember its his accident seen. But if someone was say bleeding to death I was the only one there with the tools in hand to save that person but that dude and some others didn't want me in there territory. Sorry for the long winded response but a little bit of officialness can save time and maybe someone's life.
 
I think mainly in my failure to approach this idea correctly we have gone down the entirely wrong path. And from there it snowballed into what we have left here.

So as of right now the Volunteer Trail Patrol in its current form is dead. We are going to start from scratch on a new idea and start making forward progress. Because this is an important problem to address, and with the current Forest Service staffing the ball is in our court no matter if we like it or not.
 
DRaider90,
I can see that you want what is best for the forest, and I thank you for your effort. I plan on helping all I can physically and monetarily. IMHO we all should be "patrolling" that give a crap about the trails every time we go out wheeling.

TAKE PICTURES from of what they are doing and who they are. If you are lucky enough, you might see them getting into their licensed vehicle. take pics of the tags and turn them in...or you just plain out stalk them back to their cars to turn them in. I wouldn't go broadcasting that I was taking pictures to turn into the FS. that will most likely get your ass kicked or worse.

I think that being passive and taking pictures is the best way. You'll never know who is watching you.

Thanks for your time,
BD
 
I apologize that my comments digressed too much from the subject.

I was just trying to apply the brakes a little.
Sometimes a little "braking" is a good thing, especially when you start going downhill.

If ya'll want "official uniforms" then by all means go for it.

On workdays and most other times we wear our club shirts which give us an "identity" on the trail.

Personally I'll prescribe to the "lead by example" approach, not the "Do as I say".
I still am of the opinion that the "policing" should be left to the professionals (FS personnel), as all they have asked of us is to take pictures/descriptions and report them to T. Savery.
 
For the record......

After More trail mileage, the second most requested thing at the NC ZOO forestry meeting on URE was More Trail Enforcement.

I.E. policing and enforcing the rules of the OHV on the trail system.




that was on the list of things people asked for. They showed up and write down in their own handwriting that they wanted more enforcement of the rules.
 
too bad I missed the NC Zoo meeting.

Eli, you got too much time on your hands.
I think we all as responsible wheelers help everyone when we see them and don't abandon anyone. We stay on the trail and respect the rules. There are a few of us that want to have fun and its no different than driving down the road after a few.... People gonna get hurt or get caught - one of the other eventually.

I think the trail patrol is :gay: and a bad idea. stinks like :poop:

Just spread the word to all the fello wheelers and newbs about responsible wheeling and stopping to talk to all people on the side to see if they are okay. hell you'd be surprised at the number of all the people I stopped and talked to that said I was the first guy to stop and ask if they needed help. Atv, bike, jeep or wtfever
 
Lorenzo816 said:
too bad I missed the NC Zoo meeting.
There are a few of us that want to have fun and its no different than driving down the road after a few.... People gonna get hurt or get caught - one of the other eventually.
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have you never been driving down the road when "one of those people" are to. its perfectly legal to call 911 and report people driving down the road in an unsafe manor. they ask you your location if you can follow safely till they get there and a description of the car.
and no u dont see every person that does that, and no you cant follow everyone of them safely, but they appreciate the help to get dangerous people off the road.
in the other direction, you ever see someone stopped on the side of the road and ask them if they r ok. if its not on a highway i do. most the time they r ok. id say 5% of the time they r stuck, and 10% of the time they just need to make a call. and 90% of the time i was the 1st person to stop. myself for work have been stuck alot getting off the road in the work truck (a 04 4cy jeep liberty pos). in my experience 1 out of every 15 people on average will stop, only after seeing the first person stop will more people begin to stop and see if help is needed. ( lead by example).
i guess the jest of this is "lead by example" if people start seeing you helping and passively enforcing they will get the idea. but i know this is a dead topic right now.
 
I actually called the popo on a little saturn the other day near concord.
fucker ran off the road for miles.... I thought he was either gonna go head on to something or hit a mailbox.
I didnt give a damn - just called the SHP and gave them the plate and the direction he/she was going.
If you wanna be that guy in the woods, its a good thing.
why bother with confrontation when OFficer foote can do it for you.
 
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