Well pumps

jeepinmatt

jeepinmatt

#1 WEBWHEELER
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Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Location
Stanley, NC
After only like 8 years, it seems that my well pump is getting weaker by the day. The pressure tank also loses pressure over the course of 6 months or so. These seem like the kind of mechanical components that should last 20+ years in my opinion. Does anybody make "good" submersible pump that will last?

Well is rated at 10gpm, and the well guy installed a 3/4hp which is only good for about 6gpm at 300ft depth. I'm thinking about bumping up to a 1hp or so, something that will actually output 10gpm at 300ft of head. Any issues with putting a 1hp pump in place where the 3/4hp was other than wire aize?
 
I just swapped a 1/2hp non submersible with built in pressure tank for a 1.5hp with no issues on a rental property! Submersibles may be diff story I believe company sand handler makes good submersibles but haven’t checked em out in years may be better cheaper options
 
83oldyoda4x4 said:
Is the pressure in the bladder dropping?
Click to expand...
This first. Pump just gets it to the house. Bladder or expansion tank gives the house hold pressure. The well pump should only be volume for the most part.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
This first. Pump just gets it to the house. Bladder or expansion tank gives the house hold pressure. The well pump should only be volume for the most part.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is true. We've been dealing with a weak pump for a little while now. In my mind, the tank is a reservoir and bladder just keeps the water pressure to whatever pressure you set it to. This just keeps the pump from short-cycling as the water in the tank is used. Yes, the pump carries a volume of water but it has to build pressure as well, like an air compressor. My pump isn't getting above 30 psi right now. Screwing with the pressure in the bladder hasn't affected that.

Anyone want to help replace a pump for educational purposes? :)
 
If the bladder in the tank is bad, but just oh so barely, you'll very slowly lose pressure. I can see how this would make the pump seem weak.
It sounds like its an open question whether the pump is or is not doing its job, but the tank definitely is not, if its losing pressure. Now, by losing pressure I assume you mean air pressure, measured at the shrader, not water pressure?
The other possibility is that you have a slam water leak somewhere and the whole system isn't holding pressure.
 
check the bladder tank where you put in air-- there should be no water coming out the schrader (sp)
valve. if that checks out ok make sure that the pressure is correct in the tank. with the pump off
and the tank empty (just turn on a faucet till it runs out) you should have 2 lbs less pressure than
the turn on pressure in the switch. most pressure switches are 20 lbs on 40 lbs off. you could have
a 30-50 or 40-60 but the 40-60 is kinda uncommon. if you have been monkeying around with the
switch go ahead and replace it with a 30-50 and set the tank pressure (empty) at 28 lbs.

if you have any questions pm me.
 
Loganwayne said:
Is well 300 ft deep or is the pump at 300 ft


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Click to expand...
Well is 345ft. Pump is somewhere between 250-300 (can't remember exactly).

83oldyoda4x4 said:
Is the pressure in the bladder dropping?
Click to expand...
Yes. I put air in it sometime in the past year, so I know it is bad. It went from 48psi to 30psi in that time.

WARRIORWELDING said:
This first. Pump just gets it to the house. Bladder or expansion tank gives the house hold pressure. The well pump should only be volume for the most part.
Click to expand...
The pressure tank helps buffer the pressure so your well pump doesn't run constantly. Water doesn't compress like air, so, other then the very minor expansion and contraction of the pipes, your system pressure would drop to zero as soon as you cut on a faucet. Then the pump would immediately cut on and build pressure equal to the resistance of the flow. The pressure tank allows a buffer zone using air pressure so that the pump isn't constantly running even for the smallest water needs.

RatLabGuy said:
If the bladder in the tank is bad, but just oh so barely, you'll very slowly lose pressure. I can see how this would make the pump seem weak.
It sounds like its an open question whether the pump is or is not doing its job, but the tank definitely is not, if its losing pressure. Now, by losing pressure I assume you mean air pressure, measured at the shrader, not water pressure?
The other possibility is that you have a slam water leak somewhere and the whole system isn't holding pressure.
Click to expand...
The bladder is losing air pressure, but the pump is too slow to build water pressure, even when the tank has sufficient air pressure. My memory is that once it kicked on, it used to take about 20-30 seconds to cut off if nothing was running, andit would catch up even with a water hose on. Now it takes over 2 minutes to cut off, and will never catch up if something is running.
DAWGTOY said:
check the bladder tank where you put in air-- there should be no water coming out the schrader (sp)
valve. if that checks out ok make sure that the pressure is correct in the tank. with the pump off
and the tank empty (just turn on a faucet till it runs out) you should have 2 lbs less pressure than
the turn on pressure in the switch. most pressure switches are 20 lbs on 40 lbs off. you could have
a 30-50 or 40-60 but the 40-60 is kinda uncommon. if you have been monkeying around with the
switch go ahead and replace it with a 30-50 and set the tank pressure (empty) at 28 lbs.

if you have any questions pm me.
Click to expand...
No water comes out the Schrader valve, or at least I didn't see any when I was checking and filling it the other day. I took the wet side down to zero pressure and then set the tank to 48psi. I think mine is a 40-60 that I turned up to 50-70.




I really appreciate the well intended help, but no one has really answered my 2 questions. Does anyone make a GOOD pump that will hold up, and will a 1hp swap in place of a 3/4hp?
 
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Well dammit man. You know we aren't good for much.

From research I did, the controller would need to be changed or added, if it requires one. The pump diameter needs to be smaller than your casing- obviously, and I'd throw a new check valve on it along with new clamps, torque arrestor, and safety rope. I bought an Amazon special pump. The one we currently have is an Aermotor- and it's been in service for 20 years.

You should be fine bumping up the hp a touch. You don't want to overkill it. I stuck with a 1/2hp pump only because the well is pretty shallow and I didn't want to have to add a controller. BUT, I still have yet to get my hands dirty.
 
no idea on pump brands , but if the pump was filling up the bladder and cycling off after about 30 seconds then the bladder was too small in the first place. That alone will make the pump cycle on more often and also cause more wear on the bladder. The pump should run at least a full minute to fill up the tank.

I think that the majority of houses have bladder tanks that are too small, We ran into this at my parents place with their well filling up the bladder tank in 25 seconds then only having a draw down of a few gallons which leads to short cycling of the pump.
 
The motor size is dictated by the well depth, not the GPM. They sell 3/4hp motors mated to all different sized pumps.

I've only ever installed Gould, but it's been almost 20 years since I installed one last.
 
Also, you don't want a pump that puts out the same or more than the rating of the well. The pump and motor need the water for cooling, and you don't want to run it dry.
 
Yeah i didn't think my reponce through...I knew better. Water in Schrader valve is bad for sure. I got nothing else, but good luck.
 
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F&W is still made in the US.
And by all accounts are the tits for well pumps.
When I looked into it 2 years ago however they were like 5x the cost of a gateway special.

Gould got swallowed up by Xylem. Much like Godwin and others. Not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing
 
Do you have a water pressure gauge that sits past the tank, so you can monitor the system pressure at rest?
Do you know that the whole system is holding pressure? E.g., if nothing is running for several minutes, do you know that the pressure stays constant?

Its possible that your problems are from a leak somewhere, making it harder for the pump to reach the desired pressure.

I had a random tiny leak that started in a pipe embedded in a cement slab. It was leaking out under the slab and towards the backyard... no evidence of it anywhere, except a slow leak off of the system pressure, and could just barely hear the hissing from a nearby faucet. Took me forever to figure it out.
 
shawn said:
The motor size is dictated by the well depth, not the GPM. They sell 3/4hp motors mated to all different sized pumps.

I've only ever installed Gould, but it's been almost 20 years since I installed one last.
Click to expand...
To an extent, but it's a function of pressure and resistance, so if you want more flow at the same pressure, you need more efficiency or more power.

shawn said:
Also, you don't want a pump that puts out the same or more than the rating of the well. The pump and motor need the water for cooling, and you don't want to run it dry.
Click to expand...
Correct, that's what the pump curves are for. 10gpm at 300ft of head translates to even less once you push it 100ft to the house, through 2 filters, and around eleventy seven PEX fittings. My sprinkler system can be adjusted to use 7.5gpm, and the 3/4hp was never able to maintain that.

RatLabGuy said:
Do you have a water pressure gauge that sits past the tank, so you can monitor the system pressure at rest?
Do you know that the whole system is holding pressure? E.g., if nothing is running for several minutes, do you know that the pressure stays constant?

Its possible that your problems are from a leak somewhere, making it harder for the pump to reach the desired pressure.

I had a random tiny leak that started in a pipe embedded in a cement slab. It was leaking out under the slab and towards the backyard... no evidence of it anywhere, except a slow leak off of the system pressure, and could just barely hear the hissing from a nearby faucet. Took me forever to figure it out.
Click to expand...
I'm 100% confident there is not a leak. Because of the design of our house, all of the plumbing is on the second story. There are no wet spots in the yard, and the gauge doesn't move if everything is off.
 
Lower than normal pressure/long time to reach pressure = leak or failing pump
Short cycle time = bad tank bladder.

Plumbing supply house for a decent pump or any of ^ suggestions. Definitely not a bLowes or homeless despot unit. There's 3 and 4 wire units, 4 wire requires a control box, which if nothing more than a starting cap, relay and run cap, makes for easier service if the start cap gives out as in the 3 wire, is in the pump.
 
if your tank pressure is 48 lbs empty thats way too much.
is there a gauge on the system? if you have adjusted the switch from factory settings
without a gauge its hard to know what pressure to set the tank. i would suggest getting
a new 30-50 switch and setting the tank pressure to 28 lbs and you should be golden.

myers pumps is what we have sold for over 50 years and a 3/4 is plenty for your
application. square D 30/50 with low pressure cut off switch is $27.00 at home depot.
 
DAWGTOY said:
if your tank pressure is 48 lbs empty thats way too much.
is there a gauge on the system? if you have adjusted the switch from factory settings
without a gauge its hard to know what pressure to set the tank. i would suggest getting
a new 30-50 switch and setting the tank pressure to 28 lbs and you should be golden.

myers pumps is what we have sold for over 50 years and a 3/4 is plenty for your
application. square D 30/50 with low pressure cut off switch is $27.00 at home depot.
Click to expand...
Why is that way too much? 48psi is 2psi less than 50psi, which is my cut on pressure. That's what I have the switch set to, 50psi cut on, 70psi cut off. Coming from city water, it still seems too low at 70psi on the high end.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Why is that way too much? 48psi is 2psi less than 50psi, which is my cut on pressure. That's what I have the switch set to, 50psi cut on, 70psi cut off. Coming from city water, it still seems too low at 70psi on the high end.
Click to expand...
Holy crap, 50-70 range? Are you running a fire hose?
Ours is 30-50. The original switch was a 20/40 unit I ran "overrun" to 45 for awhile before it finally died.
Isn't most municipal water 50-60 psi?
 
RatLabGuy said:
Holy crap, 50-70 range? Are you running a fire hose?
Ours is 30-50. The original switch was a 20/40 unit I ran "overrun" to 45 for awhile before it finally died.
Isn't most municipal water 50-60 psi?
Click to expand...
I think some are in excess of 100 psi.
 
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