We're moving...build vs. buy, what say you?

[rockcity]

Curious what specifically this means...cheap materials/labor and ‘miserable with’. I know diddly about home building...ignorance is bliss. But id imagine cheaping out for the sake of margins isn’t a new concept...just that the cheap shit has been fixed/replaced some time in the last 30-40 years. We looked at everything from the $200-500k range, brand new to 100 years old. Yeah the 100 year old house ‘felt’ more solid, but it also had crooked door frames...haha. Only other things I noticed in any of them was the intricacy in the mouldings, hollow core doors or not and whatever ‘pretty stuff’ the wife told me to look at. Beyond that, I couldn’t have told the difference outside of how outdated a house was. Just trying to gauge financial requirements for actually building...if it’s going to cost me 30-50% more to build exactly what I bought, plus an even higher premium for ‘quality’...that’s insane.

Edit...I guess what I’m getting at is, does it matter. Like the insulation thread...is an extra $2500 for ‘good’ insulation worth it...does it pay off in the end, maybe not. I wouldn’t have even thought about raising the question about what kinda insulation I should use. If you’re talking about falling through the floor...I get it.

You can make anything look pretty. To the untrained eye, cabinets can look nearly identical but can be made from 1/2”, 5/8”, 3/4” plywood, or even MDF. They can or can’t have dovetail construction. They can be heat transferred wraps on them or painted or stained. There are several levels of granite counter tops; all granite is not the same...

It’s easy for an electrician to use #16 wire when he really should be using #14 or even #12.

Did they use 1/2” or 5/8” or 3/4” gypsum? Did they use green board in bathrooms or not? Did they use prime, #2, or #3 studs? Is the moulding mdf or real wood? Are the studs at 12” OC or 16”? Is thebinsulation really R19 or R12? Was it installed correctly? Is the shower door framed, semi frameless, or frameless? Was the floor reinforced or joists spaced correctly to provide enough support for the added weight of tile in the bathroom? Was insulation installed on interior walls for some sound dampening? We’re hollow core doors used? Are the “brass” fixtures or hinges cheap or are they solid brass fixtures? Is the “hardwood” floor pre-finished 1/2” thick, 2.5” width boards or are they heart pine wide planks and finished on site? What type of shingles? 15-yr, 20-yr, 30-yr?

Point is, tract homes are where builders cut as many corners as possible. A “custom” or semi-custom home will usually be built with materials that are of better quality and with some better thought and labor put into it.

Comparing square ft to square foot between tract homes and a semi/custom home, you will get more house for the $ with a tract home. But you give up quality and usually are trendy for 15 years. Then you have to deal with a house that is a POS and extremely dated.

It’s no secret that tract homes are the most cheaply built form of single family house you can buy.


When I say “miserable”, I mean you’ll hear floor squeak, inefficient heating/cooling, crappy carpet and padding, continuous maintenance repairing cheap materials, screw/nail pock marks in drywall, wavy walls and ceilings, and probably moisture issues due to poor general construction practices and shortcuts.

 

[UTfball68]

You can make anything look pretty. To the untrained eye, cabinets can look nearly identical but can be made from 1/2”, 5/8”, 3/4” plywood, or even MDF. They can or can’t have dovetail construction. They can be heat transferred wraps on them or painted or stained. There are several levels of granite counter tops; all granite is not the same...

It’s easy for an electrician to use #16 wire when he really should be using #14 or even #12.

Did they use 1/2” or 5/8” or 3/4” gypsum? Did they use green board in bathrooms or not? Did they use prime, #2, or #3 studs? Is the moulding mdf or real wood? Are the studs at 12” OC or 16”? Is thebinsulation really R19 or R12? Was it installed correctly? Is the shower door framed, semi frameless, or frameless? Was the floor reinforced or joists spaced correctly to provide enough support for the added weight of tile in the bathroom? Was insulation installed on interior walls for some sound dampening? We’re hollow core doors used? Are the “brass” fixtures or hinges cheap or are they solid brass fixtures? Is the “hardwood” floor pre-finished 1/2” thick, 2.5” width boards or are they heart pine wide planks and finished on site? What type of shingles? 15-yr, 20-yr, 30-yr?

Point is, tract homes are where builders cut as many corners as possible. A “custom” or semi-custom home will usually be built with materials that are of better quality and with some better thought and labor put into it.

Comparing square ft to square foot between tract homes and a semi/custom home, you will get more house for the $ with a tract home. But you give up quality and usually are trendy for 15 years. Then you have to deal with a house that is a POS and extremely dated.

It’s no secret that tract homes are the most cheaply built form of single family house you can buy.


When I say “miserable”, I mean you’ll hear flops squeak, inefficient heating/cooling, continuous maintenance repairing cheap materials, screw/nail pock marks in drywall, wavy walls and ceilings, and probably moisture issues due to poor general construction.

And my eye is definitely untrained...but will say every time we’ve bought a home, I’ve always been drawn more to the ‘custom built’, for the simple fact the layouts tend to make more sense to me. Never been in a house longer than 2 years to actually notice the wear and tear otherwise.

 

[justjeepin86]

I live in midway on the oak grove school district. I grew up in Arcadia, right down the road. Overall, I think it's a great area to raise a family. I would try to stay in the oak grove district, if possible. New schools get the best stuff and attract the best local teachers. Southern Forsyth county schools stuck, so I would scratch that. I can't help with any others. It looks like you have a budget much larger than I have ever looked for, so I'm not much help there either. I do know that in the 200-275k range, there isn't much around. And keep in mind that hwy 52 is going to suck extra bad for the next two years. There is a 11 acre(I think) tract for sale on gumtree rd. But has been for a while.

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[CasterTroy]

There is a 11 acre(I think) tract for sale on gumtree rd.

The one between 109 and friendship?
Sign was gone when I went by it yesterday. 3 days ago a newer GMC was parked where the sign was. Might be sold. Saw that truck there a month ago 2 different days

 

[justjeepin86]

The one between 109 and friendship?
Sign was gone when I went by it yesterday. 3 days ago a newer GMC was parked where the sign was. Might be sold. Saw that truck there a month ago 2 different days

No, it's on the left heading towards wallburg on the 52 side. Right past the first farm

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[rcalexander105]

No, it's on the left heading towards wallburg on the 52 side. Right past the first farm

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You talking out there close to the tree farm? I can't find it online but will keep my eye out next time we're up that way. Good looking out.

There's a 70 acre tract I'd LOVE to have down from Oak Grove on Midway School Rd. close to Old Greensboro. DAYMN that'd be nice but I wouldn't have much room left in the budget to put a house on it unfortunately.

 

[justjeepin86]

You talking out there close to the tree farm? I can't find it online but will keep my eye out next time we're up that way. Good looking out.

There's a 70 acre tract I'd LOVE to have down from Oak Grove on Midway School Rd. close to Old Greensboro. DAYMN that'd be nice but I wouldn't have much room left in the budget to put a house on it unfortunately.

Yeah, it's part the farms after the tree farm. You can see faith church on the screen shot. It's the little road at the top left of the screen. I believe there was still a sign there when I drove by the other day.

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[justjeepin86]

It's in between the two buildings on this one.

I found it in the gis. That's on the second pic.

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[CasterTroy]

Railroad is 100 yards to the south/west. That new "development " with on sight of the trailer park with the new fangled solar streetlights may never sell a single lot because of it. I actually looked at the land they put those lots on, and as I was walking it a train came thru...turned around and kept looking

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

You can make anything look pretty. To the untrained eye, cabinets can look nearly identical but can be made from 1/2”, 5/8”, 3/4” plywood, or even MDF. They can or can’t have dovetail construction. They can be heat transferred wraps on them or painted or stained. There are several levels of granite counter tops; all granite is not the same...

It’s easy for an electrician to use #16 wire when he really should be using #14 or even #12.

Did they use 1/2” or 5/8” or 3/4” gypsum? Did they use green board in bathrooms or not? Did they use prime, #2, or #3 studs? Is the moulding mdf or real wood? Are the studs at 12” OC or 16”? Is thebinsulation really R19 or R12? Was it installed correctly? Is the shower door framed, semi frameless, or frameless? Was the floor reinforced or joists spaced correctly to provide enough support for the added weight of tile in the bathroom? Was insulation installed on interior walls for some sound dampening? We’re hollow core doors used? Are the “brass” fixtures or hinges cheap or are they solid brass fixtures? Is the “hardwood” floor pre-finished 1/2” thick, 2.5” width boards or are they heart pine wide planks and finished on site? What type of shingles? 15-yr, 20-yr, 30-yr?

Point is, tract homes are where builders cut as many corners as possible. A “custom” or semi-custom home will usually be built with materials that are of better quality and with some better thought and labor put into it.

Comparing square ft to square foot between tract homes and a semi/custom home, you will get more house for the $ with a tract home. But you give up quality and usually are trendy for 15 years. Then you have to deal with a house that is a POS and extremely dated.

It’s no secret that tract homes are the most cheaply built form of single family house you can buy.


When I say “miserable”, I mean you’ll hear flops squeak, inefficient heating/cooling, continuous maintenance repairing cheap materials, screw/nail pock marks in drywall, wavy walls and ceilings, and probably moisture issues due to poor general construction.

Your hired!
Exactly. This is why I would go out of my way to find the right person. One who will work with me and for me. 25% higher cost (random number) well worth it. My rental spec house circa 1980 sumthin is built like a brick shit house compared to these newer spec houses.

On another note my SIL had a modular shell delivered. They bricked and did a majority of the finish work. You cannot tell it at all. A majority of the build is all 2 by 6 and a lot of engineering added due to the modular design. The upside...the other stuff that gets cheapened was directly under their control.

 

[rockcity]

Your hired!
Exactly. This is why I would go out of my way to find the right person. One who will work with me and for me. 25% higher cost (random number) well worth it. My rental spec house circa 1980 sumthin is built like a brick shit house compared to these newer spec houses.

On another note my SIL had a modular shell delivered. They bricked and did a majority of the finish work. You cannot tell it at all. A majority of the build is all 2 by 6 and a lot of engineering added due to the modular design. The upside...the other stuff that gets cheapened was directly under their control.

I’d take a spec house over a tract home any day.

I’m getting ready to build a spec home and a full custom home this year, so I get to experience both extremes of the industry at the same time.

 

[justjeepin86]

Railroad is 100 yards to the south/west. That new "development " with on sight of the trailer park with the new fangled solar streetlights may never sell a single lot because of it. I actually looked at the land they put those lots on, and as I was walking it a train came thru...turned around and kept looking

Yeah, that hood will have a hard time selling. The wife and I have spoken about that. The railroad is the main drawback i see about the property i listed. The train doesn't constantly run though. I can hear it from my house now.

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[CasterTroy]

We're looking at the north Davidson county area essentially from 52 west, to the Union Cross area east, from Wallburg north and down to about Ledford Middle (Lexington Ave. / Old Greensboro Rd.) south.

That's exactly where we were looking when I found our 7 acres to build on

Southern Forsyth county schools suck, so I would scratch that.

As a product of WS/FCS, as well as being heavily involved with the design and build of every school in Forsyth, Davidson, Davie, Stokes, Surry, Yadkin, some in Wilkes, (3) Wake, (2) Union, (2) Currituck counties. I can confirm you really do NOT want to be in Forsyth, or Guilford.

I don't say that to chest pound....I say that to share my experiences at IN DEPTH exposure to all of these schools. I take time to do surveys, listen to complaints (and DEAR GOD can teachers and admin complain about ANYTHING) as well as observe existing conditions


You REALLY don't want to be in Glenn's district. My son graduated from there (I use to live on Oak Grove Church Rd) and at his graduation there MAY have been 30 white kids. We sat thru more than 120 names that ended in "EZ" (Rodriguez, Sanchez, Dominguez, etc)
The High Point side of Davidson county is hit or miss. We actually looked at a 10 acre tract in the bottom of Swans Gate, but ultimately that was too much for what we were planning. That IS a nicer area though.

I'd like to have at LEAST a 1.5-2 acre lot (the more the better as far as I'm concerned).

This is where you'll pay more for land. Typically quite a bit more than average. When I was shopping last year in that range the prices for land that wasn't on like the side of 109 with traffic non-stop, they were asking between $15k and $25k an acre. But the +5 acre tracts were down around $5k-$8k (compare that to $180k for .84 acre in the newest section of meadowlands, i.e. Parcel Number: 01012B0000034)

For reference we're probably looking for ~3,000 sq. ft., 4 bedrooms, nice, large kitchen, bonus room for the kids, 3 car attached garage and room for at least a 40x40 shop.

The shop is where you will struggle with finding an existing home. You're best bet (if you're going to buy an existing home) is to find one on a large lot and build the shop you want.

We looked for several years for this very thing, as, you can get SO MUCH MORE home bought than built. Especially now. but...everything we liked had a neighbor I could speak to without yelling, or was across from a trailer park, or (see 25 other unappealing things)

Pissed us off enough to decide to look for land. We looked from Pinnacle to Salisbury. After an exhausted search my wife looked at me and said "But I love Wallburg" so we focused the search only in the Wallburg/Midway area

As for school systems, Wallburg is still good best I can tell (my son is in kindergarten now), but from what I hear Ledford has kind of gone to the crapper. A police officer friend said the High Point PD has been called over there numerous times. I had more typed out but I'll keep it to myself haha.

Oak Grove school district is the new hot item in the Wallburg area though.

My daughters both went to Ledford Middle and High school. My oldest girl did a stint at Oak Grove middle after we finished it (I did the PM&E design for both the middle and HS) and both regret not going to Oak Grove HS. My oldest was out of school before the HS was finished, and my youngest was going to be a Jr when it opened (they only took sophomores and freshmen the first year)

Ledford is not a bad district for education, however the middle school and high school are ancient. We're currently writing a proposal for renovating the mechanical system in the middle school, but that's the ONLY improvement slated in the next 10 years. The high school gets nothing. So I would STRONGLY advise choosing something in the Oak Grove middle and HS district. Meadowlands, as well as several other smaller neighborhoods with larger homes feed that school, so the booster club is completely off the hook. Meaning the sports program is WELL FUNDED as well as band, etc. All new equipment, uniforms....you get the idea. But with that comes some seriously snotty preps. Trade-off if you will.

North Davidson is also very dated and not slated for any improvements any time soon, if that makes any difference. My daughter calls North Davidson the home of the "Yee-Yee boys" No idea what that means, other than super redneck from what I understand. Odd, because I'm the redneck of MY hood. And I have even worse friends who drive their military vehicles over to my house all the time

I would HIGHLY recommend calling Eddie Longbottom at Tri-county real estate. The thing about Eddie is; he's not just a realtor, he's like SUPER plugged into the area. He knows everyone. And he knows people that MIGHT want to sell that haven't LISTED anything. Be it land, or the perfect home. So you talk to him, and find that "Old man Jenkins" with 150 acres MIGHT be willing to sell that 4 acre parcel that butts up to the side road with no traffic. Or that a home he sold to someone a few years ago MAY be going on the market, but isn't listed yet. He just knows.

Also..I sent you a PM with a little more info.

 

[shawn]

A “custom” or semi-custom home will usually be built with materials that are of better quality and with some better thought and labor put into it.

That's not really a thing.

People like to think that it is, but it's not. You can find a really well-built house from the 30s, and you can find a really shit 5yo "fully custom" house. The custom house is more likely to have some superficial shit that makes it look fancy, but isn't really indicative of the underlying quality.

You make a great point with cabinets, though. There are SO MANY ways to cut corners on kitchen cabinets, and I've personally been on the receiving end of it before. That's the one place I would advise you find a good, local custom cabinet builder and make sure you get what you want. You can go through some "custom kitchen" company, spend $15k, and find out the hard way that the boxes on the uppers are foil faced on the inside.

 

[rcalexander105]

That's exactly where we were looking when I found our 7 acres to build on




As a product of WS/FCS, as well as being heavily involved with the design and build of every school in Forsyth, Davidson, Davie, Stokes, Surry, Yadkin, some in Wilkes, (3) Wake, (2) Union, (2) Currituck counties. I can confirm you really do NOT want to be in Forsyth, or Guilford.

I don't say that to chest pound....I say that to share my experiences at IN DEPTH exposure to all of these schools. I take time to do surveys, listen to complaints (and DEAR GOD can teachers and admin complain about ANYTHING) as well as observe existing conditions


You REALLY don't want to be in Glenn's district. My son graduated from there (I use to live on Oak Grove Church Rd) and at his graduation there MAY have been 30 white kids. We sat thru more than 120 names that ended in "EZ" (Rodriguez, Sanchez, Dominguez, etc)
The High Point side of Davidson county is hit or miss. We actually looked at a 10 acre tract in the bottom of Swans Gate, but ultimately that was too much for what we were planning. That IS a nicer area though.




This is where you'll pay more for land. Typically quite a bit more than average. When I was shopping last year in that range the prices for land that wasn't on like the side of 109 with traffic non-stop, they were asking between $15k and $25k an acre. But the +5 acre tracts were down around $5k-$8k (compare that to $180k for .84 acre in the newest section of meadowlands, i.e. Parcel Number: 01012B0000034)





The shop is where you will struggle with finding an existing home. You're best bet (if you're going to buy an existing home) is to find one on a large lot and build the shop you want.

We looked for several years for this very thing, as, you can get SO MUCH MORE home bought than built. Especially now. but...everything we liked had a neighbor I could speak to without yelling, or was across from a trailer park, or (see 25 other unappealing things)

Pissed us off enough to decide to look for land. We looked from Pinnacle to Salisbury. After an exhausted search my wife looked at me and said "But I love Wallburg" so we focused the search only in the Wallburg/Midway area




My daughters both went to Ledford Middle and High school. My oldest girl did a stint at Oak Grove middle after we finished it (I did the PM&E design for both the middle and HS) and both regret not going to Oak Grove HS. My oldest was out of school before the HS was finished, and my youngest was going to be a Jr when it opened (they only took sophomores and freshmen the first year)

Ledford is not a bad district for education, however the middle school and high school are ancient. We're currently writing a proposal for renovating the mechanical system in the middle school, but that's the ONLY improvement slated in the next 10 years. The high school gets nothing. So I would STRONGLY advise choosing something in the Oak Grove middle and HS district. Meadowlands, as well as several other smaller neighborhoods with larger homes feed that school, so the booster club is completely off the hook. Meaning the sports program is WELL FUNDED as well as band, etc. All new equipment, uniforms....you get the idea. But with that comes some seriously snotty preps. Trade-off if you will.

North Davidson is also very dated and not slated for any improvements any time soon, if that makes any difference. My daughter calls North Davidson the home of the "Yee-Yee boys" No idea what that means, other than super redneck from what I understand. Odd, because I'm the redneck of MY hood. And I have even worse friends who drive their military vehicles over to my house all the time

I would HIGHLY recommend calling Eddie Longbottom at Tri-county real estate. The thing about Eddie is; he's not just a realtor, he's like SUPER plugged into the area. He knows everyone. And he knows people that MIGHT want to sell that haven't LISTED anything. Be it land, or the perfect home. So you talk to him, and find that "Old man Jenkins" with 150 acres MIGHT be willing to sell that 4 acre parcel that butts up to the side road with no traffic. Or that a home he sold to someone a few years ago MAY be going on the market, but isn't listed yet. He just knows.

Also..I sent you a PM with a little more info.

Man...very solid feedback here. I replied in depth to your PM. Thanks a ton for the input, @CasterTroy!

 

[rcalexander105]

That's not really a thing.

People like to think that it is, but it's not. You can find a really well-built house from the 30s, and you can find a really shit 5yo "fully custom" house. The custom house is more likely to have some superficial shit that makes it look fancy, but isn't really indicative of the underlying quality.

You make a great point with cabinets, though. There are SO MANY ways to cut corners on kitchen cabinets, and I've personally been on the receiving end of it before. That's the one place I would advise you find a good, local custom cabinet builder and make sure you get what you want. You can go through some "custom kitchen" company, spend $15k, and find out the hard way that the boxes on the uppers are foil faced on the inside.

Totally agree here w/ the cabinets. When we went through our kitchen remodel, the "faces" of our old cabinets were solid plywood but the boxes were all MDF (and holy shitballs do they hold in that "old people smell" over time!). After looking around a good bit, we found the best end product for us were some from Cheap kitchen cabinets - Buy RTA online from Wholesale. They come in flat (i.e., boxes not assembled) on pallets and you put them together and solid (i.e., not MDF) construction. For the money, we've been happy so far for sure! It also helped that my FIL has been doing cabinet work and custom trim for 30+ years so when we put them together they're built like Ft. Knox w/ all the damn screws we put them together with. Their customer service was top notch as well! They sent the wrong size pantry and no questions asked they sent another out (and now I have a matching pantry out in my garage for storage).

 

[CasterTroy]

You can find a really well-built house from the 30s

It's been my experience in this area, that 30's bungalow thru 60's ranch homes here are built like fallout shelters. My previous home was a 1962 ranch built by a builder for himself. I've had a couple of friends who are local architects come check out the floor system and roof truss systems the guy put in, because they were so unique and overbuilt.

I loved that home, and renovated it completely to my desire. Unfortunately the state wanted that property to build the new 52 bypass


The trade off on the older, well built homes, is the PM&E

Aluminum wiring, or even exposed wires, galvanized sewer piping, or copper that's so scaled you can't stick a straw thru a 1/2" piece to flow water, and NO mechanical space to route ductwork.

I would love to have found a shell of a well built 30's-60's home, gutted it completely and started over, but where I want to live, there is really nothing available. This was all farmland in those era's and those farmhouses rarely ever go up for sale.

 

[drkelly]

You can make anything look pretty. To the untrained eye, cabinets can look nearly identical but can be made from 1/2”, 5/8”, 3/4” plywood, or even MDF. They can or can’t have dovetail construction. They can be heat transferred wraps on them or painted or stained. There are several levels of granite counter tops; all granite is not the same...

It’s easy for an electrician to use #16 wire when he really should be using #14 or even #12.

Did they use 1/2” or 5/8” or 3/4” gypsum? Did they use green board in bathrooms or not? Did they use prime, #2, or #3 studs? Is the moulding mdf or real wood? Are the studs at 12” OC or 16”? Is thebinsulation really R19 or R12? Was it installed correctly? Is the shower door framed, semi frameless, or frameless? Was the floor reinforced or joists spaced correctly to provide enough support for the added weight of tile in the bathroom? Was insulation installed on interior walls for some sound dampening? We’re hollow core doors used? Are the “brass” fixtures or hinges cheap or are they solid brass fixtures? Is the “hardwood” floor pre-finished 1/2” thick, 2.5” width boards or are they heart pine wide planks and finished on site? What type of shingles? 15-yr, 20-yr, 30-yr?

Point is, tract homes are where builders cut as many corners as possible. A “custom” or semi-custom home will usually be built with materials that are of better quality and with some better thought and labor put into it.

Comparing square ft to square foot between tract homes and a semi/custom home, you will get more house for the $ with a tract home. But you give up quality and usually are trendy for 15 years. Then you have to deal with a house that is a POS and extremely dated.

It’s no secret that tract homes are the most cheaply built form of single family house you can buy.


When I say “miserable”, I mean you’ll hear floor squeak, inefficient heating/cooling, crappy carpet and padding, continuous maintenance repairing cheap materials, screw/nail pock marks in drywall, wavy walls and ceilings, and probably moisture issues due to poor general construction practices and shortcuts.

Plus:

- Window quality
- fake stone or real stone
- vynil soffet and front porch ceiling etc vs wood
- lighting fixtures
- plumbing fixtures
- carpet quality
- porches concrete, brick, or stone

 

[rcalexander105]

The trade off on the older, well built homes, is the PM&E

Aluminum wiring, or even exposed wires, galvanized sewer piping, or copper that's so scaled you can't stick a straw thru a 1/2" piece to flow water, and NO mechanical space to route ductwork.

This. Essentially the reason for our kitchen remodel (the clogged galvanized sewer piping).

 

[UTfball68]

That's not really a thing.

People like to think that it is, but it's not. You can find a really well-built house from the 30s, and you can find a really shit 5yo "fully custom" house. The custom house is more likely to have some superficial shit that makes it look fancy, but isn't really indicative of the underlying quality.

You make a great point with cabinets, though. There are SO MANY ways to cut corners on kitchen cabinets, and I've personally been on the receiving end of it before. That's the one place I would advise you find a good, local custom cabinet builder and make sure you get what you want. You can go through some "custom kitchen" company, spend $15k, and find out the hard way that the boxes on the uppers are foil faced on the inside.

And that's ultimately what I was questioning...I don't have a leg to stand on in this conversation...but shit builds aren't something that just magically appeared within the last decade, and all it takes is a peruse through different threads to see 'custom' doesn't always mean better. Beyond that, if it's cheap(er) and works...does it matter? Quite honestly I've never opened a cabinet and been like 'Oh man, These 3/4" thick cabinet doors sure do enclose my dishes better'. Or again I go back to Matt's insulation thread, is the extra $2500 in 'better' insulation gonna pay off...maybe...but it'll take 10 years. I get it, chincy shit is typically followed by even more chincy shit, and everyone has their pet peeves, cheap doors are one of mine. But what I'm truly wondering is, does a 3/4" cabinet door really outlive a 3/8" cabinet door...or is it simply for peace of mind and resale value. I grew up in a cheap/shit 70's built house, and outside of tile that was glued straight to subflooring, it survived 5 kids and multiple 300+lb people until this past year when they renovated. But at the end of the day, it's not like peoples budgets when buying a house is infinite, they go 'quality' one place, they'll typically have to go super cheap in another...to me, that would net to zero anyway.

 

[shawn]

It's been my experience in this area, that 30's bungalow thru 60's ranch homes here are built like fallout shelters.

Rough sawn 2x12" white oak floor joists 16"oc on 12ft spans FTMFW.

Edit: That said, I can fix bouncy spans in a ranch house with some 4x8x16" solid CMU and $100 in wood (and will do just that later today).

But what I'm truly wondering is, does a 3/4" cabinet door really outlive a 3/8" cabinet door...or is it simply for peace of mind and resale value.

No, but the first time you put a hot glass in the cabinet and the foil facing on the shelf peels up, or the MDF backer on the trash cabinet tears off, you're gonna be pissed.

 

[rockcity]

Rough sawn 2x12" white oak floor joists 16"oc on 12ft spans FTMFW.

Edit: That said, I can fix bouncy spans in a ranch house with some 4x8x16" solid CMU and $100 in wood (and will do just that later today).



No, but the first time you put a hot glass in the cabinet and the foil facing on the shelf peels up, or the MDF backer on the trash cabinet tears off, you're gonna be pissed.

MDF around sinks and bathrooms is bad...

And, if your glasses are somewhat wet when putting away on MDF, eventually the shelving will start to swell and break down.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

MDF around sinks and bathrooms is bad...

And, if your glasses are somewhat wet when putting away on MDF, eventually the shelving will start to swell and break down.

Or one spill, leak and the entire thing turns into a stained sponge that does not reshape as magicly as it turned into a blob.

 

[CasterTroy]

We need a "useful tips for building" thread where all the folks who know what they are doing can share with those who don't know what to look for, ask for, or be weary of.

 

[Ron]

And that's ultimately what I was questioning...I don't have a leg to stand on in this conversation...but shit builds aren't something that just magically appeared within the last decade, and all it takes is a peruse through different threads to see 'custom' doesn't always mean better. Beyond that, if it's cheap(er) and works...does it matter? Quite honestly I've never opened a cabinet and been like 'Oh man, These 3/4" thick cabinet doors sure do enclose my dishes better'. Or again I go back to Matt's insulation thread, is the extra $2500 in 'better' insulation gonna pay off...maybe...but it'll take 10 years. I get it, chincy shit is typically followed by even more chincy shit, and everyone has their pet peeves, cheap doors are one of mine. But what I'm truly wondering is, does a 3/4" cabinet door really outlive a 3/8" cabinet door...or is it simply for peace of mind and resale value. I grew up in a cheap/shit 70's built house, and outside of tile that was glued straight to subflooring, it survived 5 kids and multiple 300+lb people until this past year when they renovated. But at the end of the day, it's not like peoples budgets when buying a house is infinite, they go 'quality' one place, they'll typically have to go super cheap in another...to me, that would net to zero anyway.

I'm with you, or at least what I think the spirit of your conversation is here.

I dont want hassles and aggravation. I dont want cold drafts around cheap ass windows. I dont want to feel like the floor is spongy. Etc. But I'm not real picky on the quality of my granite countertops. My wife like the color and when I set food on them it doesnt hit the floor. Purpose served. I'm not very pretentious when it comes to housing. Actually pretentious isnt the right word because that ahs a negative connotation and I dont mean it that way.
Let me say this, I care much more about the comfort of my boots than the quality of my kitchen cabinets.

I dont plan to live here forever and they will be someone else's headache whenever they fall apart.

I've been in @shawn 's redid kitchen a few times. (we dont usually make it past the kitchen..) Its awesome. Great place to hang out. Really cool layout and design they did a great job. And he and @trailhugger are passionate about it. That's what matter. Its theirs and they like it. I still remember a long conversation we had about how he had to reinforce where a joist was, and how he designed this neat solution. Obviously I dont remember the details, but I remember the passion in his voice and the pride he had in the outcome. Awesome. I know it brings happiness on some level to have that ownership. But for me...it wouldnt bring that same pride. Different strokes and such.
Id rather take than $XXK and have a dingy kitchen and another toy, or more honestly, another cheap property to put a roof over someone's head and put some cash in my pocket.

We bought a mid sized tract of land a year or so back and eventually plan to build a house there, maybe. This is one of the reasons I say maybe. I'm cheaper than a broke jew. I know left to my own devices I will cut every corner possible and brag about my low $/sqft and probably end up with something I dont love....

So for me...I fall on the buy side of the equation