What is wrong with the workforce?

Maybe he's just a realist and likes feeling like your expectations are not too high - raise in pay comes w/ the implicit assumption of working harder... maybe he just doesn't want that hanging over his head so he feels obliged to work harder...
 
Dylan W. said:
I never once mentioned, or even thought about taking away free lunch,or not paying him during lunch. I was just gonna give him 2 bucks more per hour. Upping him to 14.

He declined. I will not argue about it..lol
Click to expand...
At the same time the more you make the more your expected to have/take care of yourself. Guys that start for us at base pay are expected to have a hammer and tape square and a tool belt. More money you make the more of your own tools you should have. If a foremen called and asked if I would bring him a drill I'll look at him crazy. That may be the logic he used
 
I don't have any scientific research to back it up, but I'll give two examples of close family friends' kids.

First example is a 21 year old female who graduated high school in 2013. Went to community college for elementary education studies and dropped out after one semester. Went to a different college with the idea of going into nursing after finishing a general studies associates degree. Did not finish the first semester there. Living with her dad, who is providing for her. Just got back from Bike Week at Myrtle with him and his new girlfriend.

Second is a 19 year old male who decided to move away to college after his mom had saved a butt-load of money for him to go to college. Even though some in-state colleges had programs he was interested in, he follows his girlfriend and moves to New York City and attends Pace University. Fails two of 4 classes and doesn't go back. Moves back home and floats between mom's house and dad's (they are divorced). When he moved, he gave his beater car to his sister thinking that he wouldn't need a car in NYC.

Neither kid has any drive and both are being spoon-fed an existence by their parents.

When I was in college, I worked two jobs, started two different business and worked as the apartment complex resident manager just to get free rent. If I had it, it's because I earned it. Society has taught this next generation to just hold out your hand and you will be provided for. And we have our generation to blame for it. I can't fix other families, but in mine - there are no handouts.

I read an article the other day that was talking about how millennials feel that they are a strong generation because they've survived "so much" They've been through wars, a recession, they've been through the banks failing, etc. But the funny thing is that "they" aren't the ones who fixed the problems (not that they are really fixed anyway!), and they really didn't see any real impact anyway. All they are doing is saying they need more money for minimum wage and want to work less hours. This generation sees "full time employment" as 30 hours a week. No wonder you can't make a living at $10 when you are only working less than 18% of your available time in a week. When you are sleeping almost twice as long as you are working each week, there's a problem.
 
I see it from the standpoint of working with others of all age groups and trying to figure out a pattern between work ethic and work skill. I've worked with college educated folks who have very little work ethic and HS drop outs that require years of job training to learn what could be taught in a semester at tech. It's all over the board.
My boss (Marine combat vet, mech E, BA) absolutely loves having me around because I'm a combination of both, so I can work with anyone doing anything offered by the company in high demand. He's constantly asking me who I know that would fit into our rapidly growing workforce and like I tell him, you won't find somebody who's good at what they do because if they are, they're more than likely in a very good place.
He also knows that I love going to school and take on new trade skills for the pure enjoyment of learning. Like he told me, the willingness to grow and learn beyond your job title is a great credential in itself. That is what I look for in future potential employmees to bring into the company on my own time and damn it's hard to find.
 
^ I think you two hit it. I started my job as an intern, they also hired a guy who had dropped outta college trying to get the same degree as me. I worked my butt off worked over time and tryed to learn as much as I could. Other guy was to scared to try to learn because he was afraid of messing something up. Three months in he was asking for a raise and was pissed he didn't get one. I had just got my second raise when he was asking for his first.
 
VortecJeep said:
This has helped me: ask enough questions in the interview that you can tell if they are bullshitting or not. And check things out on your own. I interviewed an engineer for a job a couple years ago. His resume looked incredible. I started asking about a project that his resume said he was the lead engineer on. He answered the first two questions about that project, but when I went 4 questions deep, he finally admitted "ok, I wasn't the lead engineer, I sat beside the engineer that checked the design." I told him I was not going to waste anymore of my time or his, and ended the interview.
Another one never even made it to the interview. He claimed to work on specific projects at a different plant. So I called the project managers at the other plant and they had never heard of the guy. So I canceled the interview.

The other thing I do is I let my employees interact with them; take them to lunch, chat at the coffee pot, or even interview them. You can have the best qualifications, but if you aren't going to get along with my team, I don't need you.
Click to expand...
I think we are interviewing the same guys Matthew!!!
 
one of my direct report millenials asked to leave early one day- it was 3:30 at the time. he asked to go at 4 vs 5 to beat traffic to pick up his sister from the airport. I told him to go ahead and scoot at 3:30 since traffic was going to suck. he said that it was raining. I said so what. he said that he'd wait it out. I laughed and told him wasn't made of sugar and he wouldn't melt. then we actually started arguing over whether or not it was a right or a privilege as to whether or not I let him leave early. so, me being me, made his happy ass sit back down and work till 5. all because he didn't want to get wet walking the 20 yards to his car. I dont understand kids. period. not even Fuller is that stupid.
 
drkelly said:
Some of the young engineers that come to my work are unrealistic with their expectations. They want to be a project manager in 2-3 years, lol. It takes that long just to become a 'lower-intermediate' level user of all the different systems and learn a single functional area of the truck.
Click to expand...


You can thank professors for that!! "those that CAN, do, those that cant, teach about it in college"

Back in my college days (18 hr load and 3 jobs) in the early 90s we were assured that with our engineering degrees we would graduate making $60k
THAT was BS!! You couldnt make that without 10yr of experience....no one wanted college greenies in the 90s...work was booming and no time to train. Unless you wanted to be in sales.
By that time i was quite comfortable in my college job and had been promoted to management at UPS after years of part time thru college, but I hated the politics at UPS and decided to take a position at a firm in my field a few months after I graduated....at $25k :(

I decided to suck it up and learn all I could.

It took several years to get to that number we were assured of :rolleyes: but honestly had I never heard that...I would have been fine with my starting salary and working my way up. I really blame the colleges for puffing up students into believing they're worth more than what the market calls for.

My wife had much worse stories (she's VP of HR at a consulting firm that does 6 sigma lean training)
Those little assholes graduate EXPECTING $150k+ and 6 weeks vacation while only "working" 13-15 days a month
 
Last edited:
hired an 'EE' with 10 years experience one time that almost killed himself on 1,200A of 3Ph/480V because he didn't check if the machine was still powered up (it was). I literally saved his life by tackling him as he whipped out an allen wrench to stick in a live machine in order to unscrew one of the power lead lugs. I walked him out 5 minutes later. it took me that long to realize he has been playing me for the last 2 months - he had no idea what he was doing, but he could talk the talk- he then proceeded to call HR to complain about me tackling him and that it was unprofessional.
 
I got my first job out of school in a MFG job because I told them that I spent my weekends getting stuck/ broken trucks out of the woods in the dark, in the rain with little to no tools and with little to no correct parts - FOR FUN- imagine what I could do for them in a realistic work environment. we went out for lunch that day after the interview, and I showed them some of my still in place rigged up contraptions and they laughed and hired me. I made them a SHITLOAD of money.
 
i can relate to this topic: When I was building my shop and got to the raising the 25ft trusses i asked this young college kid to come help for either pay or do some labor on his jeep...never showed up the day of setting trusses so I hung them all by myself. Showed up next morning wanting to work so I gave him a chance...we were sheeting the roof that day...he slowed me down so much just passing me up osb roof sheeting that after 3hrs, i let him go and finished it by myself again with double the time of what we did together. That kid was so slow (for my pace anyways) he was about worthless not to be mean but I can't stand sitting around at work...we gonna work lets work,...time for chat, drama and bs is after work on your own time.
I never done too well working in shops and such because of this so working for myself really has made my life much easier as I don't have to be around a bunch of slackers anymore lol.
 
frankenyoter said:
Most employees work hard enough to not get fired while the employer pays them just enough to not quit.
Click to expand...

The thing is Bob, Bob.....


alh5.googleusercontent.com__BUSZFA0rmio_TW0GBQHWlpI_AAAAAAAACCk_LBCU_bOgFoc_s1600_officespace.jpeg
 
This problem has been going on since the Pharaohs built the pyramids. The problem is population growth. There are a large number of idiots to choose from now compared to then.
 
It's everywhere. I'm in engineering for an aerospace company and we have guys that couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag. Takes them weeks to design something a competent engineer could do in a day. AND they have the nerve to complain about every little piece of work they are given and how difficult it is and blah blah. I really don't know how these guys keep their jobs.
 
I'm one of those damn college kids. Failed classes, parents paid for a lot of stuff along the way, and now I have a cushy desk job making decent money with 4 weeks of vacation.

And I hate it. I hate it every day because I'm surrounded by people who are lazy, incompetent, or both. But its hard to leave a job where you can do so little and make so much. I could probably do my job in 4-5hrs a week most weeks. It is completely dissatisfying and does not feel productive. The really unfortunate part is that there is no meritocracy. Whether you bust it and do the jobs of 3 people, or just do a halfass job at what you're hired to do, they all get the same 3% raise and 5% bonus at the end of the year. Heck, there's one guy here that comes in at 10am, takes a 1.5hr lunch, leaves at 2-3pm, and spends most of his time here on the phone running his side business. And he makes 15k/yr more than I do, and they keep paying him.
 
jeepinmatt said:
... Heck, there's one guy here that comes in at 10am, takes a 1.5hr lunch, leaves at 2-3pm, and spends most of his time here on the phone running his side business. And he makes 15k/yr more than I do, and they keep paying him.
Click to expand...

We have a couple of guys we hired right out of school that have been here less than 2 yrs that do the same thing. I think their manager just doesn't want to deal with the HR/personnel stuff so he just lets them do whatever they want. These are also the guys that complain the most about working so hard...:shaking:
 
I have a comments to make after recently graduating (May 2015) and working for roughly a year. I am 23 as of now and work for a govt contractor for naval engineering.

I feel in today's economy the success of a high school graduate finding a trade skill w/ 4 years experience is about equal to anything a recent bachelor's of science grad can have financially.

Student loans, minimal experience (maybe an internship or two), and extremely competitive job requirements aren't sunshine and flowers. Of course after a couple years the college grad will make it beyond a high school trade skill worker, but every now and then I think of what the avenues of success are besides just studying for exams and getting a diploma...

@jeepinmatt I often feel that same way about how a weeks worth of work can be summed up in about six hours but I will sit at my desk for the full 40 hours because that is what the customer expects. I was fortunate to have flex hours so often fridays are half days when I can. As long as the quality is to standard and the work is on time why be in the office when it isn't necessary.
 
I was one of those kids years ago (kind of).

Never really had a job in high school; I was playing sports too much to have time. Mom and dad paid for everything. Went to college and had FUN at the expense of mom and dad and my grades reflected as such. After 2.5 years school kicked me out and I had to do something. Mom and dad were done paying for me so I had to get a job. Ended up with a crappy helper job in industrial construction but realized what hard work can do, and I got paid! Did that for 5 years and went back to school and finished up. Made me realize hiw life really worked and how far you can actually go by working hard (and smart).

It's paid off so far, so I'll continue working hard and thankful to have an opportunity to provide a company with my services. :)

People will be amazed at how far they will get by simply doing what is asked, following directions, and having a positive attitude.
 
jeepinmatt said:
I'm one of those damn college kids. Failed classes, parents paid for a lot of stuff along the way, and now I have a cushy desk job making decent money with 4 weeks of vacation.

And I hate it. I hate it every day because I'm surrounded by people who are lazy, incompetent, or both. But its hard to leave a job where you can do so little and make so much. I could probably do my job in 4-5hrs a week most weeks. It is completely dissatisfying and does not feel productive. The really unfortunate part is that there is no meritocracy. Whether you bust it and do the jobs of 3 people, or just do a halfass job at what you're hired to do, they all get the same 3% raise and 5% bonus at the end of the year. Heck, there's one guy here that comes in at 10am, takes a 1.5hr lunch, leaves at 2-3pm, and spends most of his time here on the phone running his side business. And he makes 15k/yr more than I do, and they keep paying him.
Click to expand...
Holy Sh!t, It sounds like your describing my job!
 
The thing that seems to get to me the most isn't just how lacking in the motivation department most people are, it is that we seem to actually be getting dumber-er......I have guys that I will say "that won't work...." (insert legitimate explanation as to why, so they understand and hopefully learn). When I come back to the job hours later, I find they have done EXACTLY what I told them would not work.....only in a manner soooo awful as to have made the situation exponentially worse! There is a movie called "idiocracy" if you haven't seen it, watch it....sadly it is more of a societal documentary than the comedy it was intended to be, they highlight the fact that without natural predators we are no longer subject to Darwinian law, and as such our population growth does not favor those with any particular skill set or physical traits, instead it only favors those who reproduce the quickest........we are doomed!

One guy likes welding pieces together that need to be removed on a regular basis and cutting out electronics that have quick disconnects on the terminals to save 5 mins. of wire routing. There was a time when I thought that drive and determination could trump a lack of fundamental knowledge....I STILL go home and spend hours online watching videos and reading books to learn skills that I don't have....there is no excuse to go blindly into anything in this day and age, I guess people prefer to use the internet for porn and angry birds (and long, incoherent internet forum based rants).
 
Jody Treadway said:
I'll take "What happens when everyone gets trophies for participation only", Alex.
Click to expand...

I mean that sounds good, but I disagree.


In every field and within every subset there will always be remedial,average and superior abilities and/or capabilities.

Part of it is composed of inherent abilities beyond one's control. A much larger part of it is composed of drive, work ethic, and circumstances.

Look participation trophies gained popularity in county rec programs in the early 80s. Not to make the kids feel better believe it or not, but to make the parents feel better and encourage them to keep bringing their kids and paying the league fees. I also dont buy the fact that the current generation is measurably "worse" than the prior. We are all just getting old and wise enough to realize it how bad most are.

If you are a hiring manager and you constantly see yourself surrounded by idiots, examine your prospecting, hiring and screening practices.

I think this is a 2 way street, front line employees always complain about how much upper levels get paid. Never stopping to realize they arent willing to work hard enough to get there.
Conversely upper levels complain about how "lazy" or "stupid" their front line guys are never stopping to realize if they were as industrious and possessed the same mental acuity that management had they wouldnt accept the wages paid for the job.

One thing that I feel is most missed, we are in a BOOMING local economy. I know of no one who is able and willing to work who isnt currently employed. So if you are hiring you better be offering what no one else is, or you are only getting their rejects. Everyone has a Competitive Advantage. However if your hiring CA is that you dont drug test, understand your BEST employees will be those who are talented but cant work elsewhere because "they" do drug test. If your CA is that you pay more understand you are hiring a mercenary who will always leave for the next highest offer. If your CA is you have a job and will hire the guy no one else will, understand you are getting the guy your competition doesnt want.

I've hired a lot of people in my career. I used to really really suck at it. I think I am pretty good at it now.

None of this accounts for incompetence. If incompetence is accepted it will become the norm.

But the American corporate way seems to be to promote people to one level beyond their ability then complain about their performance.
 
Back
Top