Why do jobs that don't benefit from a college degree require a college degree?

jeepinmatt

jeepinmatt

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Stanley, NC
Branching off from the psychology thread. I have an engineering degree. I never use it in my job. @CLRracer mentioned you had to have a degree to be a firefighter at many places. Why? Seems really dumb to me.
 
Wasn't this because of Biden?


How many of the job descriptions are requirements vs nice to have? I agree it's pretty dumb for some things. Even in jobs you might be qualified they create a laundry list of requirements that nobody actually has. I know an old school way of thinking was the degree shows that you can accomplish a long term task.
 
Most of the manual labor jobs. Construction and Automotive don't require school of any kind. You can learn on the job. I did survey without and degree. Trash pickup pays well but most don't want to do it.

My experience is that most jobs requiring a degree want it to show your willingness to put in effort.
 
Employers want degrees for the same reason that some have a hard-on for anyone with military service, it shows commitment to something and ability to see things through. Nothing against people who went to college, or veterans of any branch, but I've met a lot of educated idiots, and worthless wastes of VA benefits.

I've been a leader of people for most all of my life from about 13. Starting in Scouts (patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, staff at camp being put in charge of an area my second week of my first year, to teaching BB and archery to loads of 10/11 yr old boys, to being #3 medic and area lead) as well as in high school marching band being put in charge of student and adult equipment staff, a 48ft tractor trailer, and a couple hundred thousand dollars of equipment, to being #3 man in the store, from day 1, training new employees and future store managers while I worked for the Irish parts people. Sadly though I'm not eligible for management at 90% of businesses because I lack a pretty piece of paper to hang on the wall. I have identified, and solved, multiple problems with machines at my current employer, but get looked down on by management and engineering, because I'm just a knuckle dragging floor grunt.




.....sorry, I'm off my soap box now I promise.....
 
Can I ask, how many of you that have a degree have ever been asked to provide proof of said degree, or had your credentials checked? In the same regard, how many of you have checked potential hires for their degrees.

I sure hope that doctors, or people in fields that lives are at risk (civil/structural engineering), will say yes. But Iā€™m the only person whoā€™s ever looked at my degree. Then I closed it and never showed anyone.
 
mbalbritton said:
Can I ask, how many of you that have a degree have ever been asked to provide proof of said degree, or had your credentials checked? In the same regard, how many of you have checked potential hires for their degrees.

I sure hope that doctors, or people in fields that lives are at risk (civil/structural engineering), will say yes. But Iā€™m the only person whoā€™s ever looked at my degree. Then I closed it and never showed anyone.
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There was a dental hygienist in Lexington Nc just got busted for not having any credentials. But was practicing daily
 
mbalbritton said:
Can I ask, how many of you that have a degree have ever been asked to provide proof of said degree, or had your credentials checked? In the same regard, how many of you have checked potential hires for their degrees.

I sure hope that doctors, or people in fields that lives are at risk (civil/structural engineering), will say yes. But Iā€™m the only person whoā€™s ever looked at my degree. Then I closed it and never showed anyone.
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I have had employers do background checks based on my resume upon being hired, but I can't be fully sure which parts they actually verified.
 
DSM Turbos said:
I have had employers do background checks based on my resume upon being hired, but I can't be fully sure which parts they actually verified.
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TBH, for federal hiring, I could see being able to forge a degree pretty easily. You have to upload your diploma. But who really checks with a registrar at Southern Georgia University or wherever to see if it's real? Years back, we had a German Labor Attorney in the Headquarters that turned out not to be a lawyer. I forgot how it was discovered. He got dismissed. But he had been on the job for seven years or so before the issue came up.

As for needing a degree, it's a false sense of security for a hiring official to be able to say that the individual has basic communication and personal skills. By completing college, you will have had to take basic math and critical thinking courses, along with writing multiple page papers. But seeing some of the folks passing classes lately, I don't think colleges are holding up to that standard. In a way, the requirement is counter productive for certain positions. Completing college has an opportunity cost. Would you rather hire someone who spent four or more years studying or someone who has practical life experience for that time? And if you're paying wages that are on par with McDonald's, what kind of college graduate are you getting?

On the subject of stupid requirements that hiring officials put on job announcements, see also extensive experience at the exact same function they are hiring for. If someone is moving to your company to do the same thing they did in their last job (At the same or less pay), there is a strong likelihood you are getting damaged goods.
 
mbalbritton said:
Can I ask, how many of you that have a degree have ever been asked to provide proof of said degree, or had your credentials checked? In the same regard, how many of you have checked potential hires for their degrees.

I sure hope that doctors, or people in fields that lives are at risk (civil/structural engineering), will say yes. But Iā€™m the only person whoā€™s ever looked at my degree. Then I closed it and never showed anyone.
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I had to send a copy of my degree and CSP (safety certification) to my current employer, major big box retailer, when I accepted the offer. That's the only time I had to do it.

My degree is a general business degree and college really hasn't done much for me besides check a box, make me never want to drink jagermeister again, and I met my wife there. So 2 for 3 on benefits :laughing:
 
Southern_Transplant said:
TBH, for federal hiring, I could see being able to forge a degree pretty easily. You have to upload your diploma. But who really checks with a registrar at Southern Georgia University or wherever to see if it's real? Years back, we had a German Labor Attorney in the Headquarters that turned out not to be a lawyer. I forgot how it was discovered. He got dismissed. But he had been on the job for seven years or so before the issue came up.

As for needing a degree, it's a false sense of security for a hiring official to be able to say that the individual has basic communication and personal skills. By completing college, you will have had to take basic math and critical thinking courses, along with writing multiple page papers. But seeing some of the folks passing classes lately, I don't think colleges are holding up to that standard. In a way, the requirement is counter productive for certain positions. Completing college has an opportunity cost. Would you rather hire someone who spent four or more years studying or someone who has practical life experience for that time? And if you're paying wages that are on par with McDonald's, what kind of college graduate are you getting?

On the subject of stupid requirements that hiring officials put on job announcements, see also extensive experience at the exact same function they are hiring for. If someone is moving to your company to do the same thing they did in their last job (At the same or less pay), there is a strong likelihood you are getting damaged goods.
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Based on around here how it is near impossible to fail HS now, I don't doubt that college is near the same to just get the diploma.
 
The firefighter positions that require a degree are typically leadership/management ranks, and usually at municipal agencies. I believe in the fire degree there are several classes about finance, law, administration, etc, so I can see the connection. With that said, none of the career chiefs at my agency have a degree.

What really aggravates me about the degree requirements for fire agencies is where the degree becomes a requirement. As a firefighter we have several certifications already, each of which requires a certain number of hours training both in class and in the field. For example, I am Fire Officer II certified. To obtain this cert, I had to attend x number of hours training, perform certain objectives, etc. I was also required to be Fire Officer I certified and Fire Instructor I certified, each of which had their own requirements, including downstream certifications, and on down the line. It's not like we're promoting people to line-officer positions of Lieutenants/Captains/Battalion Chief without any preparation. There is also usually a years of service requirement, and I don't care how many certs or degrees you have, experience will trump them.

I will however say I can understand a degree benefit (not necessarily requirement) at the Chief/Assistant Chief level, what we call the non-line officers. These chiefs are the ones working business hours doing business things. In fact, I have seen Chief of Department job listings where the actual firefighter requirements were rather sparse.

Duae
 
mbalbritton said:
Can I ask, how many of you that have a degree have ever been asked to provide proof of said degree, or had your credentials checked? In the same regard, how many of you have checked potential hires for their degrees.

I sure hope that doctors, or people in fields that lives are at risk (civil/structural engineering), will say yes. But Iā€™m the only person whoā€™s ever looked at my degree. Then I closed it and never showed anyone.
Click to expand...
I have. Part of the Fed hiring process is that you have to provide transcripts from all colleges. Not just something showing you have the degree but the actual list of courses. Some goon in CPAC / OPM apparently has the job of going through and comparing your "training" to the job description and requirements.
I have a BS and MA in Psychology, PhD in Neuobiology. When I was hired at my first position it was for a job titled "research psychologist", which had been created for me and several others as part of a new program, because at the time there was no job code for "neuroscientist".
I got my offer letter and it was for right-out-of MA level pay. I was like :fuck-you: WTF is this. I have PhD, two fellowships and lots of experience. CPAC goon says, "But the highest degree you have in Psychology is a Masters, and none of your coursework after that are in psychology."
Queue the :dumbass: 'you idiots can suck on this'. You need to learn what these terms and course names actually mean.
The group I was being hired into went back and changed the job title to "biologist" and mysteriously I then got proper recognition for my degrees and training.

Southern_Transplant said:
TBH, for federal hiring, I could see being able to forge a degree pretty easily. You have to upload your diploma. But who really checks with a registrar at Southern Georgia University or wherever to see if it's real? Years back, we had a German Labor Attorney in the Headquarters that turned out not to be a lawyer.
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Wonder if this is agency specific? They are very thorough here.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Branching off from the psychology thread. I have an engineering degree. I never use it in my job.
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I bet you do/did and don't realize it.
First, I'm gambling this wasn't your first job. Did you use it previously? Did that work as a step into your current job? 90% of the time the degree is just the step into the career, after that its all real world experience.
Second I'm pretty sure you interact with a lot of engineers. You don't do what they do, but you have to be able to communicate with them, understand what matters to them, and know where they are coming from. There's a ton of soft skills of getting along with and managing people that stem from having some level of common background.
Engineers have their own way of thinking and seeing the world, just like psychologists and mathematicians and musicians do. It takes a lot of exposure and adaptation to be on a common wavelength.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Engineers have their own way of thinking and seeing the world
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It's not "their own way"

Full House 90S Tv GIF


It's the RIGHT way

There It Is GIF
 
RatLabGuy said:
I have. Part of the Fed hiring process is that you have to provide transcripts from all colleges. Not just something showing you have the degree but the actual list of courses. Some goon in CPAC / OPM apparently has the job of going through and comparing your "training" to the job description and requirements.
I have a BS and MA in Psychology, PhD in Neuobiology. When I was hired at my first position it was for a job titled "research psychologist", which had been created for me and several others as part of a new program, because at the time there was no job code for "neuroscientist".
I got my offer letter and it was for right-out-of MA level pay. I was like :fuck-you: WTF is this. I have PhD, two fellowships and lots of experience. CPAC goon says, "But the highest degree you have in Psychology is a Masters, and none of your coursework after that are in psychology."
Queue the :dumbass: 'you idiots can suck on this'. You need to learn what these terms and course names actually mean.
The group I was being hired into went back and changed the job title to "biologist" and mysteriously I then got proper recognition for my degrees and training.


Wonder if this is agency specific? They are very thorough here.
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Whatcha know about neuro feedback?
 
Monkeynono said:
Whatcha know about neuro feedback?
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Pretty good amount. The term ranges from stimulus-driven feedback (e.g. using visual or audiory things to stimulate the brain) to direct electrical stimulation with tDCS or magnetic pulses, so it just depends what you wanna know
 
RatLabGuy said:
I bet you do/did and don't realize it.
First, I'm gambling this wasn't your first job. Did you use it previously? Did that work as a step into your current job?
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Nope. Didn't use it in my first job either. Didn't really even need to go to school since I already knew everything. :flipoff2:
 
RatLabGuy said:
Pretty good amount. The term ranges from stimulus-driven feedback (e.g. using visual or audiory things to stimulate the brain) to direct electrical stimulation with tDCS or magnetic pulses, so it just depends what you wanna know
Click to expand...
I have a friend here in Asheville that does that. From what she was telling me about it (that I understand) it's pretty neat stuff.
 
I went to community college, but never finished my degree. I do still work in the field and have for 15-ish years.

I'm also a federal employee and I don't recall having to prove any of my education or anything when I submitted my resume on USA Jobs.

Lankford said:
Engineers are never wrong, just misinformed.
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I will say...I have proven a couple of the engineers at work wrong. They didn't like it, but I'm also going to have my migratory water fowl properly aligned when I present things to the masses for review. I attribute most of if to landing somewhere on the spectrum and the ADHD.


As for college...I don't think it is now what it once was. I feel like it's definitely more of a scam and money grab operation these days for some degrees. I've had friends that went for various degrees who came back after graduation and you'd swear they taught them how to be morons. It could definitely be the start of how the movie "Idiocracy" begins to unfold in real life.
 
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