Work/Life balance conversation (pulled from another thread)

CasterTroy

CasterTroy

Faster'N You
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
Wallburg
Ron said:
Work is just a part of my life and it fits where it falls.
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Work is what I do to finance my "Life"

"Life" is what occurs OUTSIDE of my office.

I don't consider it an integral part of my life. While I like to be aware of what's happening on a vacation, I don't check my work phone for emails/updates once I leave for the day. The office stays at the office for the sake of my sanity, marriage and kids. Nothing I can do at 9pm will make anything better for me the following 6:30 other than worry. I'm too old and cherish too many moments with my wife and kids for that mess any more
 
CasterTroy said:
Work is what I do to finance my "Life"

"Life" is what occurs OUTSIDE of my office.

I don't consider it an integral part of my life. While I like to be aware of what's happening on a vacation, I don't check my work phone for emails/updates once I leave for the day. The office stays at the office for the sake of my sanity, marriage and kids. Nothing I can do at 9pm will make anything better for me the following 6:30 other than worry. I'm too old and cherish too many moments with my wife and kids for that mess any more
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^^^Exactly this. I did the fly home early from a family vacation to take care of shit at work thing. It wasn't worth it. Neither is trying to come up with a half assed attempt to solve a problem without all your resources at hand. Had a colleague of mine last week take 3 days off, board of directors, CEO, etc wouldn't stop blowing up his phone...then I'd get a call from him asking for me cover for him. Finally told him the next time they call, tell them you're on vacation and come see me...enjoy your time with your daughter. It worked. I'll work as long as I have to, but it has to be shut down at some point.
 
CasterTroy said:
BTW @Ron Not saying what ANYONE does differently than me is wrong...just not for me
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CasterTroy said:
Work is what I do to finance my "Life"

"Life" is what occurs OUTSIDE of my office.

I don't consider it an integral part of my life. While I like to be aware of what's happening on a vacation, I don't check my work phone for emails/updates once I leave for the day. The office stays at the office for the sake of my sanity, marriage and kids. Nothing I can do at 9pm will make anything better for me the following 6:30 other than worry. I'm too old and cherish too many moments with my wife and kids for that mess any more
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Everyone has their own opinion here. I dont think either is right or wrong.
Life to me is 24/7/365/ If I am miserable at what I do I would quit in a heartbeat.
Just two points though.

I do work in an industry where lack of response can be the difference between life and death, that makes a difference.
Secondly, dont lose track of the first half of the statement. I dont know officially how many vacation days I get. I dont count. I dont fill out the form online that I am tasking a day either. I told the boss this when I interviewed. My take is this, I will make you more money than anyone else you can hire to do my job. You shouln't care when or how I do it so long as its legal and ethical. If I am not producing yet I sit in an office 90 hours a week and am a model employee I expect to be fired. If I am producing and you cant find me for 3 hours on a Wednesday afternoon that is none of your damn business. So long as I make you money why do you give a fawk where I do it from? Last year we spent 3 weeks in Destin, Fl on vacation.

I took no days off. I get up at 5AM answer a few emails and quote a few jobs. We'd go down to the beach and swim and sun and shit for a few hours. Then we'd come back to the house for lunch. The wife fixed lunch while I returned calls. Then I ate and emailed while the kids did and then we went back out around 2pm. And Id do the same think again about 6pm. No vacation days needed. 3 week family vacation. And worked everyday.

To me, and me only, the happiest most successful people I know have learned to blur the lines so much between work and fun that they dont know where one starts and the other ends. Had to take a client to WI last year mid summer. Took my son along. He stayed in the hotel hit the gym and the pool while we did a plant tour, then that night me the customer my son and one of the factory guys went to a Brewers game. Whole trip was paid by employer. But I worked on vacation. shrug.
 
Ron said:
I took no days off. I get up at 5AM answer a few emails and quote a few jobs. We'd go down to the beach and swim and sun and shit for a few hours. Then we'd come back to the house for lunch. The wife fixed lunch while I returned calls. Then I ate and emailed while the kids did and then we went back out around 2pm. And Id do the same think again about 6pm. No vacation days needed. 3 week family vacation. And worked everyday.
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I do adhere to the philosophy that most jobs can be done from damn near anywhere if you're set up with the tools to do so. For me, as an employer, it comes down to quotas and time. I acknowledge some positions are more quota based, and the compensation would be adjusted as such, up front...ie customer service, account managers, commission based roles, etc. No harm, no foul. Where I'd have a problem is if it's not a 'quota role'...and Ron works 4 hours/day on vacation and is just as productive as when Ron is in the office 8-10hrs/day. I'd be wondering why in the hell Ron is wasting 2-4hrs/day (acknowledging the best employees are only 80% efficient) and he should either be making me more money, take more on, or his employment status should be re-evaluated (remembering that everyone is replaceable). Just using that as an example, sounds like you were still putting in a full day's work, just saying that's usually what I analyze when I let an employee start working remotely. And if you're still putting in a full day's work, that's not a vacation to me either...that's just working from somewhere else.
 
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Ron said:
the happiest most successful people I know
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Really boils down to what YOU consider to be successful, doesn't it. I'm pretty sure your version of what that means wouldn't be mine, and vice versa. Again, doesn't mean either of us are wrong, we just define success, happiness, and what it takes to bring those about, differently. And I'm sure I used too many comma's but I don't care :cool:
 
CasterTroy said:
Really boils down to what YOU consider to be successful, doesn't it. I'm pretty sure your version of what that means wouldn't be mine, and vice versa. Again, doesn't mean either of us are wrong, we just define success, happiness, and what it takes to bring those about, differently. And I'm sure I used too many comma's but I don't care :cool:
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Agreed 100%.

I will just add this. I don't define successful in financial terms - at least not beyond 'all needs are met'.
Successful to me means financially stable. Happy. Healthy. There for his family. etc.

But with age Ive reached an almost Zen like approach to this.
In balance is preferred.

I look at it this way. I as a business owner, this function costs this amount of money. I base my sell price on that cost and my desired profit. If that is achieved it is sufficient.
I could make more, I could save more, sure. But why. I have enough. I save enough.
If I budget project management as worth $100k/year and I am making enough profit. Does that mean I should try to lower my PM cost to $90k and make more?
No.
Why?
I have enough and I want my PM to have enough as well.

I think a lot of America is falling into a trap and ultimate profitability is perceived as the ultimate goal. Years ago I watched a documentary on Hershey and M&M Mars and other candy makers in America. I was fascinated by this little story. In the early 80s someone approached the then CEO (before that was even a title - he was called President or Chairman in those days) with a proposal. They had a new chocolate supplier/formula/vendor that would reduce cost by 30%. He ordered a study done. 100 people were fed a candy bar from the old formula and the new. 80 something reported no preference. The rest preferred the old formula. No one preferred the new. All were asked would the new impact their buying decision. None said it would prevent them from buying. He repeated the test 4 or 5 times to almost identical results. He never heard 1 person say they preferred the new formula. none. not even a fluke outlier, but also none (or statistically significantly none) said the new formula would prevent their purchase. The President decided to stay with the old formula. The accountant was perplexed. His reasoning, "We all make great salaries. We haven't laid a plant worker off in decades. We dont need more money. No one thinks this new chocolate improves our product. If we make the best product we can and are profitable why change?"

Now today he would be vilified and maybe even called before congress to explain his fiduciary (or lack thereof) decision.

Dont know. Its a bit of a rant.

Just something that has been bothering me lately.
 
I moved this here to not totally derail Logan's thread about phones.

I enjoy the conversation and would like to keep it up, just in its own topic.


@CasterTroy @UTfball68
 
Ron said:
Successful to me means financially stable. Happy. Healthy. There for his family. etc.
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Same.

I will add: Everything has a "cost" (as you know all too well I'm sure)

I was offered double my salary and a position of HMFIC if moved to Herndon Va to take my bosses job (I worked for an engineering firm out of Herndon with a NC office that was closing all it's satellite offices) and I refused. The suit wearing Exec VP thought I was nuts to turn down that offer and coming back to my 5 man firm in Winston. However NO amount of money would convince me to move up there and separate myself from friends/family and most importantly make such a drastic change in my wife/kids life.

I won't work in Charlotte or Raleigh either for significantly more money. The commute means too much to me, since I still have a daughter in high school. 1-1/2 to 2hrs one way in a car is too much time away from my wife. And I mean, there's no price tag for that....yeah I like her that much. After my youngest daughter graduates and leaves? Who knows. But I'm getting set in my ways and I like it here too much. May NEVER move.

I don't care about how important I am either. I have a title...and I'm VERY grateful for it. It was a huge compliment, but I never want to be SO important that I can't step away from the world for 7 days and come back to a disaster. Nothing I do is life or death....and I'm GLAD! Yes my job stressful and I have a massive amount of responsibility, but....I can leave at 6pm and return at 6am and the world hasn't imploded...and I LOVE that. Most of the time "emergencies" work themselves out with very little of my input.

I come and go as I please, even if I'm here at 6:30 am most days. No time clock, no asking if I can leave at 2 and blow off the day because it's nice outside. I work hard and I get the job done. If that means I work nights and weekends to make a deadline, then so be it...I also can take off every other friday if I feel my work load permits. 26 additional days of vacation in addition to the 4 weeks I get is nice :cool: but to be honest I'm not sure I've taken 4 weeks of vacation in.....well EVER. I have all the benefits and rewards of owning my own company without having the responsibility of actually owning it. Which....also can't have a price assigned to it.

Would I be happier making more money? Maybe...but something I learned a LOOOONG time ago was being content with what you have....and I'm there now. Anything "more" is just gravy.
 
Ron said:
I think a lot of America is falling into a trap and ultimate profitability is perceived as the ultimate goal. Years ago I watched a documentary on Hershey and M&M Mars and other candy makers in America. I was fascinated by this little story. In the early 80s someone approached the then CEO (before that was even a title - he was called President or Chairman in those days) with a proposal. They had a new chocolate supplier/formula/vendor that would reduce cost by 30%. He ordered a study done. 100 people were fed a candy bar from the old formula and the new. 80 something reported no preference. The rest preferred the old formula. No one preferred the new. All were asked would the new impact their buying decision. None said it would prevent them from buying. He repeated the test 4 or 5 times to almost identical results. He never heard 1 person say they preferred the new formula. none. not even a fluke outlier, but also none (or statistically significantly none) said the new formula would prevent their purchase. The President decided to stay with the old formula. The accountant was perplexed. His reasoning, "We all make great salaries. We haven't laid a plant worker off in decades. We dont need more money. No one thinks this new chocolate improves our product. If we make the best product we can and are profitable why change?"
Click to expand...

I have no issues with this either. My primary responsibility for the last 5 years has been business stability and productivity. With the nature of what I do, profitability is a byproduct. I've literally seen the greed turn a great organization in to one gasping for air. I've dealt with a lot of M&A work, one of the biggest failures was the acquisition of a helicopter company. The divisional VP of OPs wanted to expand into a new market. I was against it from the start, the analysis showed no upside...told him time and time again, sometimes you just have to be happy doing well with what you do. I haven't been with that company for about 4 years...Last I knew, that acquisition was still hemorrhaging about $1mil/month. The biggest issue I come across though are plant managers always wanting to go with temp labor. Save a couple bucks an hour per head. You know the problem with temp labor, almost universally...the 50+% turnover rate on a weekly basis...which means new people, new training, new screw ups every single Monday.

Back to the original topic, I'm one of those folks that just can't unplug...unless I completely unplug. As I mentioned, I'll bust my ass for you, but I'm gonna get my time too. One of the main reasons I vacation 4-6 weeks a year at Oregon Inlet, about 10-15 miles from any real good service.
 
CasterTroy said:
Work is what I do to finance my "Life"

"Life" is what occurs OUTSIDE of my office.
Click to expand...

I agree with this completely. I have had employers in the past say the bullshit line that it shouldnt be just about the pay check but the fact is that if there was no pay check none of us would go to work, even if we like our jobs. I am sure there are a few people lucky enough to be making money doing something they love but most of us just go to work to fund our addictions to food, clothing, shelter, and hobbies.
 
I've found work has to end for me when I get home of an evening. Work phone stays in truck at night. Only in the event of an emergency is someone from work to call my personal phone. Have had bosses before to tell me I was always on call, I think not.
 
I know I have a hugely different career than you guys, but I'm stoked to be hourly and not take my work home with me at all. I know I will never make the money you guys will either, but I'm fine with that. My after hours "work" tends to be dealing with sending emails for the booster club.

UTfball68 said:
The biggest issue I come across though are plant managers always wanting to go with temp labor. Save a couple bucks an hour per head. You know the problem with temp labor, almost universally...the 50+% turnover rate on a weekly basis...which means new people, new training, new screw ups every single Monday.
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I don't want to derail this either, but I see this as a huge problem also. Temps sound good on the surface, but I believe they can cost you a ton of money. We deal with that at work as well.
 
justjeepin86 said:
Temps sound good on the surface, but I believe they can cost you a ton of money. We deal with that at work as well.
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Many contractors have the belief that if it takes 10,000 man hours to complete the task, hiring 10,000 temps for one hour is the solution o_O

The best contractors I've seen in construction maintain a small, dedicated staff and don't bite off more than they can chew forcing them to call for temps (warm bodies) to occupy a job site.
 
Being a single man living well below my means and blessed with a strong back and enough common and mechanical sense to do me for a few lifetimes, I prefer the careers that don't stand in my way of life. The flip side of the coin, I live a life that doesn't stand in my way of a career. More money would be nice but that comes with experience, which grows by the day.
If that's not the meaning of happiness, I haven't much I can complain about.
 
MY life is consumed by finding/making the next deal.Good deals don't wait and you have to be ready and willing to drop what your doin to get em before somebody else does.I haven't been on a Vacation in ten years or more that I haven't bought or sold something while I was gone. Seems like I always have to pack something and drop it off at UPS or the post office before we can leave home too.I don't nessacarily like it but that's the way it is.Im finding out that people I thought were successful and had made money were actually just hopelessly in debt w no chance of ever being debt free.I'm starting to realize that its very hard to have things and always pay cash for it.
 
When I was asked to come back to my company in Durham, I specifically took a role where the answering emails at night and on weekends would be much much lower. Before that, it was just expected and necessary being that I would have stuff delivering to shows on the west coast and dipshit sales reps who couldn't read directions or other forms of dumbassery I had to correct. Once we started getting cell service in Harlan, I actually got a call on a Friday afternoon while we were standing at the bottom of Crawfords Cry/top of Your Turn and answered only because it was my biggest and busiest client who I knew was installing at a show in Phoenix. Long story short...he did not see my away message on my email and felt bad for calling, he thought the rev limiter going off in the background was fuckin cool and 15 minutes later his missing shipment was delivered to his booth. A week later a gift card showed up on my desk. There is just a level of customer service expected and I try hard to keep, but nowadays my role is more indirect with the client so I can enjoy my time away from the office. I'm a much happier asshole these days.
 
anvilrubi said:
I've found work has to end for me when I get home of an evening. Work phone stays in truck at night. Only in the event of an emergency is someone from work to call my personal phone. Have had bosses before to tell me I was always on call, I think not.
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I have no problem being on call 24/7 i have worked a job like that before when i was on "call" depending on the level i could do whatever i wanted other times i couldn't leave the house once it got to a certain level i got a reduced pay less then half my hourly rate to be available with in a 30 min call out wasn't to bad

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
I'm just here to view, no real input yet as my life has been quite the blender the last few years and kicked into overdrive here as the past 8 months or so.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 
UTfball68 said:
I have no issues with this either. My primary responsibility for the last 5 years has been business stability and productivity. With the nature of what I do, profitability is a byproduct. I've literally seen the greed turn a great organization in to one gasping for air. I've dealt with a lot of M&A work, one of the biggest failures was the acquisition of a helicopter company. The divisional VP of OPs wanted to expand into a new market. I was against it from the start, the analysis showed no upside...told him time and time again, sometimes you just have to be happy doing well with what you do. I haven't been with that company for about 4 years...Last I knew, that acquisition was still hemorrhaging about $1mil/month. The biggest issue I come across though are plant managers always wanting to go with temp labor. Save a couple bucks an hour per head. You know the problem with temp labor, almost universally...the 50+% turnover rate on a weekly basis...which means new people, new training, new screw ups every single Monday.

Back to the original topic, I'm one of those folks that just can't unplug...unless I completely unplug. As I mentioned, I'll bust my ass for you, but I'm gonna get my time too. One of the main reasons I vacation 4-6 weeks a year at Oregon Inlet, about 10-15 miles from any real good service.
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I'm a small man on a very short ladder, but I agree whole heartedly with the temp. For hire position.
 
WARRIORWELDING said:
I'm a small man on a very short ladder, but I agree whole heartedly with the temp. For hire position.
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Replying to my self...........maybe you should find a different ladder. Sadly I still haven't found my nitch. 41 and still not really where I want to be. Its not money or the balance you guys are discussing just not content......more bored I think.
 
UTfball68 said:
The biggest issue I come across though are plant managers always wanting to go with temp labor. Save a couple bucks an hour per head. You know the problem with temp labor, almost universally...the 50+% turnover rate on a weekly basis...which means new people, new training, new screw ups every single Monday.
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EXACTCTLY and it sucks the life out of your senior employees.Tonya has been at John Deere for 14 years and they are always training new people.
 
I guess I am on the side of 24/7/365 here, I tell my customers all the time, this is my cell phone, I answer, nights, weekends and even on vacation! I was on a cruise a few years back and that was the longest stretch I have been away from cell service since I got my first bag phone from CellularOne back the day! (I was da MAN at Four Seasons mall as a 20 something kid with my manPurse/bag phone!!) But, I was at the OBX a couple weeks ago, and only ended up taking 2.5 days of 'vacation' out of the 5 days I was gone from the office.

Here at the CPA firm, we have to record all of our time and I normally show about 50-55 hours a week year around any more and 65+ during tax season and there is stuff that just isn't not getting recorded. I also teach, and run a couple other businesses as well (rental stuff, etc.) I am all about diversification, but this has lead to a comfortable life and my wife understands that I am working as I walk into the house still on the phone but loves the fact we can spend so much time traveling together while I am still making a living!

So my life/work balance is the fact that I have put myself into a place that I can "make money" 24/7/365 from anywhere I can get a cell phone (and internet) connection and that opens up my "life" so that I can actually be gone more often to more places with zero issues from the boss. I guess the flip side is I could have not worked the 20 hours at the OBX, but to me that gives me another 2-3 days of vacation I will use to hit Mustang Week, or long weekends, etc.

Tis all good, just pursue our own directions in solving the work/life balance.

Sam
 
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