Working for Tips

[rcalexander105]

No, this isn't about single moms (or dads for that matter) and it shouldn't be in the garage.

A friend of mine on the book of faces posted this today. I responded with some of my thoughts, but I'm wondering what the general consensus is among this crowd. I consider myself a pretty good tipper. The way I see it, you start at 20% and you can work your way up or down from there. I've worked in the restaurant industry and I get these folks are underpaid (separate argument / discussion for another thread perhaps but not what I'm trying to get at here).

My biggest question here is around "takeout". What's appropriate?

My point was essentially: Isn't part of the price of the food to prepare it and serve it to me? Outside of that (e.g., the service) is what gets the tips.

His response was: what u pay for is the cooks who make the food. Packaging it, making sure it's the right items all that is done by someone who is being pay $2.13 per hour

My rebuttal was along the lines of: by that logic, help me understand the difference b/t this and somebody working a drive-thru window. They're not cooking the food but have to make sure it's right before handing you the bag.

Not looking for who's right and who's wrong. If I'm wrong, that's fine, but help me understand why.

Again, the fact that these folks don't hardly make any money is obvious. But does that inherently mean I, the customer, have to make up for that? Going out to eat is expensive enough as it is. By implying I should be responsible for increasing their pay, at what point will I decide the cost of going out is too expensive and just not go? Which of course could lead to less and less business resulting in it having to shut the doors and now all those jobs are gone.

What say ye'?

 

[Ron]

Pre covid I never tipped the take out runner.
Once shit opened up I was so glad to have that option and felt like I was in a better place than most of them I threw a 10-15% bone their way...

For me - I was largely raised by a single mom waiting tables - I consider it giving back/paying it forward.

I personally think take out runners should be paid min wage not 2.13.

BTW 2.13 was derived from half of 4.25 which was then min wage. Why didnt 2.13 increase when min wage did

 

[CasterTroy]

Pre covid I never tipped the take out runner.
Once shit opened up I was so glad to have that option and felt like I was in a better place than most of them I threw a 10-15% bone their way...

Same..but for local non-chains I typically tip 20% on take out now

For me - I was largely raised by a single mom

Mine worked for the county (#becausebenefits) but similar background

 

[rcalexander105]

I personally think take out runners should be paid min wage not 2.13.

I think this is the basis for my whole argument and agree 100%.

I've never tipped for takeout but almost felt like a total douche canoe after seeing that

 

[drkelly]

I never tip the person taking my money at the register and handing me my food for take out. I assumed they made a normal hourly rate.

I tip waiters/waitresses 20% give or take based on the quality of service.

I have not gone out to eat or bought takeout since COVID started though, so I know things are being done differently.

I cut my own hair, so I give myself a BIG tip!

 

[CasterTroy]

I've never tipped for takeout but almost felt like a total douche canoe after seeing that

My son is a line chef in charlotte at Nobles. They were nearly destroyed by rona...now doing mass takeout. The "tips" (at least there) get spread to the whole staff now, not a server or the person taking money. This opened my eyes knowing these guys are a skeleton crew and desperate right now, as their livelihood has been upended

 

[adamk]

I generally tip for take-out but not to the extent that image projects. I usually throw out about 10%.

Edit* That tip is at places doing takeout that I normally would dine-in. Places that have always been take out (Subway, fast-food, etc) I don't tip.

 

[89wrangler]

At the local places (not fast food) i would do 10% on the take out orders as a norm, since Covid I have bumped it to 20% to help out a little.

 

[Tim C]

If I'm at a restaurant where I would leave a tip if I ate in the store then I'll leave a tip if I do takeout. Same with delivery like pizza. I know at some restaurants the wait staff tip shares with hostesses and kitchen help.

The plastic bucket beside the register at McDonald's or jersey mike's forget about it.

 

[orange150]

In the past I haven't tipped for takeout, my thought being exactly what you said @rcalexander105
But, if a member of the wait staff is having to take time out of managing their tables to help prepare my takeout order though then that changes things.....

 

[obullfish]

I was told around Asheville the wait staff was bumped to minimum wage during the carry out only times. No idea if that’s true or not but that’s what a waitress told me at some restaurant.

 

[Ron]

On a side note...we took a Christmas cruise last year. I missed one of my favorite pastimes that I look forward to recreating this year.

It started as a one time thing years ago when my best friend was alive. We sold a Jeep we had finished restring on a Christmas eve and the dude paid us $500 extra to deliver it that day.
We did. Somewhere up around monroe.
We had this idea and stopped on the way home at a Waffle house ate dinner and left a $100 on the table and walked out.
The next year we did it again, different waffle house but this time we just drank a cup of coffee each.
He wasn't able to get out the next year and the year after he was gone.

The last few years I probably drink about 4 or 5 cups of waffle house coffee on Christmas eve. It makes me feel good and hope it drops a light in someone's life. I figure if they are having to work on Christmas eve its a nice nod

 

[RatLabGuy]

At all the places I get take out, I do not pay a tip. Nor have I ever seen any indication it is expected.. .they don't even look at the signature receipt.
I agre that it's no different than a drive through.

The whole thing is stupid. And circular. Businesses get away making people rely on tips, because they knowpeople will do it. The more people tip, the less they will pay hourly.
Isn't it a law in NC that you HAVE to make min wage even w/ tips? It is in MD. So, me not tipping dosn't keep them from at least making min wage.

Now, during Covid times, as things re-opened I've been adding on big tips. More as a "I'm happy to have you open and I want to help" than a sense of obligation.

 

[paulevans76]

I tip >20% when we eat out unless it's really shit service and it can't be reasonably explained (obviously super busy, soft openings, person is new, etc). I usually do a buck or 2 when picking up, because all I'm doing is coming in the door, passing the person my credit card, signing the receipt, and walking out with a bag of food. I can't bring myself to do much more than that for a normal situation. The pizza dude gets 3 or 4 depending on how big of an order, and he's actually delivering the food. Maybe I'm a tighter ass than I though.

 

[RatLabGuy]

So here's one that gets me. I guess its in the same boat...?

A local farm recently opened a brewery out of a barn. You walk in, there's a bunch of taps, guys and gals pouring beer. You take your booze outside, sit and enjoy the view of the countryside. Often a local band playing our whatever.
There is no food, no table bussing. People BYO food, games, there's a rotating taco truck just "off" premises. Barely even tables.

It is presumed customary to tip the bartenders (who literally just pour beer from taps), because it's all digital and they have those damn screens they flip around when you charge that ask for tip amount. For some reason those really bug me.
I totally get tipping a barkeep, but it's one of those things where I literally cannot see how these guys could do their job any better - or worse. OK, yes, I guess you CAN pour a cup of fresh brew badly. But it's like "you have 1 job" kind of jobs.
The notion of tipping this really bothers me. There is no personal service. Just pay them based on %sales, or hourly.

But they also sell/refill growlers. So I often swing by on my way home, hand them an empty growler, they refill, I leave. Its basically beer take-out. Actually they also sell "crowler" giant cans out of a fridge... just like at the beer store.
I feel like the take-out tip is now mandatory thoug hdue just to the locale...?

 

[Wes]

I always throw a few bucks at takeout. My daughter worked as a waitress. It sucks to put in a full day of work for peanuts when you get a rash of shitty tippers. I get it. She chose that line of work. There are other options. Nonetheless, I try to be good to the folks behind the counter regardless of their position. My daughter worked at sonic for a while in high school, and folks would tip her at the drive in window. I’ve personally never tipped anyone at a fast food joint.

 

[shawn]

Isn't it a law in NC that you HAVE to make min wage even w/ tips? It is in MD. So, me not tipping dosn't keep them from at least making min wage.

It's $2.13/hr

I've always tipped about 20-25%, but generally didn't tip on carry-out or cashier service. Since 'rona, I tip every time and try to eat out as much as I can, and tip with cash whenever possible.

 

[Ron]

It's $2.13/hr

I've always tipped about 20-25%, but generally didn't tip on carry-out or cashier service. Since 'rona, I tip every time and try to eat out as much as I can, and tip with cash whenever possible.

No actually Dave is right...its just never enforced.

Federal law direct from DOL (emphasis mine)

A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.

Now if a waitress complains her tip arent cutting it? Shes probably gone because she isnt good enough.

 

[Southern_Transplant]

Wow, I usually don't feel like an asshole. But this is one of those times that has me thinking.

I've always looked at things from the supply side. If I am paying for a meal and all you do is hand it to me at the counter, I don't see an added value. So, no tip. If a company does not pay you, that's messed up. But not my problem to solve or contribute to. (See Reservoir Dogs intro).

My pause is with the tipping formula. Everyone here seems to set the standard at 20%. When I was young, that standard was 10%. Then it went to 12, 15, then 18%. For me, the math does not add up. Inflation has increased the price of the meal over time. So, why does the gratuity rate keep increasing?

 

[UTfball68]

I use the same philosophy, start at 20% and depending on service, it'll go up or down. I've applied it regardless of how I get served. With take out, the interaction is usually short enough that there is no change in tip, but it does from time to time. 1) Because I can afford to 2) I remember being broke, it sucks 3) I'm inclined to help those that are willing to work for it 4) If I can't afford the $8-10, I probably shouldn't be spending the money in the first place.

 

[Wes]

No actually Dave is right...its just never enforced.

Federal law direct from DOL (emphasis mine)



Now if a waitress complains her tip arent cutting it? Shes probably gone because she isnt good enough.

If I remember correctly, if my daughters tips totaled more than the hourly two dollars and whatever cents wage, then that’s what she made. If not, the business picked up the difference. The goal was to have a zero dollar paycheck at the end of the week. Management looked at it like you sucked and your performance was not getting you tips if the restaurant had to pay you anything. Seemed odd to me, but that’s how it worked. Some days were awesome. She’d make a few hundred a day instead of being bound to an hourly wage. Slow times of course sucked.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Wow, I usually don't feel like an asshole. But this is one of those times that has me thinking.

I've always looked at things from the supply side. If I am paying for a meal and all you do is hand it to me at the counter, I don't see an added value. So, no tip. If a company does not pay you, that's messed up. But not my problem to solve or contribute to. (See Reservoir Dogs intro).

My pause is with the tipping formula. Everyone here seems to set the standard at 20%. When I was young, that standard was 10%. Then it went to 12, 15, then 18%. For me, the math does not add up. Inflation has increased the price of the meal over time. So, why does the gratuity rate keep increasing?

All of this is exactly how I feel as well.

The problem is there is nothing to keeo this rediculoys growth of tip dependence in check... besides people refusin gto participate in te hsystem.. .e.g. not tipping.

By the way - the answer to why the gratiyuity rate keeps increasing, is because the value of a dollar decreases, te hcost of living increaees, but the $2.15 and even the minimum wage has not changed. So people feel bad, and give out a little more... because starving waitresses.
Basically, there is pressure for it to go up, but no actual pressure for it to go back down.
Look at your forst sentence - nobody wants to be the asshole.

 

[RatLabGuy]

If I remember correctly, if my daughters tips totaled more than the hourly two dollars and whatever cents wage, then that’s what she made. If not, the business picked up the difference. The goal was to have a zero dollar paycheck at the end of the week. Management looked at it like you sucked and your performance was not getting you tips if the restaurant had to pay you anything. Seemed odd to me, but that’s how it worked. Some days were awesome. She’d make a few hundred a day instead of being bound to an hourly wage. Slow times of course sucked.

which is all correct - except if the target was $2.whatever, that was illegal.
It should have been $5.whatever, then $7.whatever, etc.

 

[Ron]

which is all correct - except if the target was $2.whatever, that was illegal.
It should have been $5.whatever, then $7.whatever, etc.

Actually no.
An employer has to pay 2.13 minimum.
The can't pay.
If 2.13+tips =min wage then no more is needed.
Else they have to supp up to min wage. Under noncircumstance can they pay less than 2.13 from employer

 

[Southern_Transplant]

All of this is exactly how I feel as well.

The problem is there is nothing to keeo this rediculoys growth of tip dependence in check... besides people refusin gto participate in te hsystem.. .e.g. not tipping.

By the way - the answer to why the gratiyuity rate keeps increasing, is because the value of a dollar decreases, te hcost of living increaees, but the $2.15 and even the minimum wage has not changed. So people feel bad, and give out a little more... because starving waitresses.
Basically, there is pressure for it to go up, but no actual pressure for it to go back down.
Look at your forst sentence - nobody wants to be the asshole.

The cost of living point comes up. But if the cost of the meal is increasing at the inflation rate (and it is), the percentage of tip tied to the cost of the meal increases at the rate of inflation.

We have this vision of starving waitresses/waiters. But the reality is that service sector employees can earn more in tips for bringing appitizers and your drinks than a trained phlebotomist or Medical Technician. To me, that is giving a false incentive. Waiting tables should be something you do to get a technical skills. Not something you do in the long term because of the amount you bring in.