Alloy Wheels vs. Steel Wheels - A Lug Nut Debate

orange150

orange150

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Location
Fairfax City, VA
So, on my way home from work this happened:

ai.imgur.com_yKGqAeC.png


All my lug nuts on that wheel backed off and promptly vanished.

Which has started a debate on alloy wheels vs. steel wheels.

One of my buddies swears that because the alloy wheels I have heat and cool at a different rate than all the steel they're mounted to, it caused my lug nuts to back off. (which is why he only runs steelys)

Another calls BS to that theory, and that it is a torquing from when they were installed (well over a year ago) issue.

A lot of articles state you should retorque after 500 miles on alloys, something I have never done on any previous vehicle and never had issues with.

I've run both, and have never had an issue until tonight.

What say you?
 
most likely this ^, I have seen first hand what a new vehicle does when an aluminum wheel get's chunked at well over 60. Lady test drove a pickup yrs ago where I worked as a teen, seem the salesman didn't see what the fuss waqs over it not being Pm'd yet.:eek: Truck didn't sell either.:rolleyes: Alloy wheels seem much more sensitive to improper torque and lug taper. The faces get deformed and seating the lug to see true torque is harder to achieve. So it rides on a minimal contact area and quickly wears this down, becoming loose.
 
I've only ever had one wheel fall off of my vehicle. It was a cj7 with some new to me alloys and I unknowingly used lug nuts with taper for steel. I had just driven 30 miles on the interstate, got off the exit, turned into the restaurant parking lot, and then watched my left front wheel roll across the parking lot and back down to the interstate. Fortunately it stopped 3ft from the travel lanes. Could have been really bad. That was 1999, and I'll never forget it.
 
Is there a "steel" vs "aluminum" taper? I know I have had wheels with 60* tapers and wheels with 45* tapers, but there never seemed to be any rhyme or reason to it.

The only time I've ever had one loosen up was due to either new lug nuts or new wheel studs. I always make sure to check them afterwards if that's the case.
 
I've compared my lug nuts side by side (steel acorn vs procomps) and there does appear to be a slight difference. What drew me to the procomps was the fact that they are designed to engage the full thread of the wheel stub rather than ~7/8" of the acorns. I think thread engagement is a huge factor there as well. The other reason is I couldn't get a socket around an acorn once in a recessed hole of an aluminum/alloy.
 
Brain fart: This same exact thing happened to me and a friend once driving down interstate 20 in Columbia sc. It was in a full width half ton XJ on 35" at street tires on aluminum wheels. We hit the wall a few times after the front tire came flying off while doing 65-70 and caused a huge crash. We slid violently to a stop, flexed out on the median with a Honda civic stuck underneath. The tire ended up bouncing into oncoming traffic and off the hood of another car in an opposing lane. It was on the news and everything. No one was seriously injured but since then I've been very gun shy about this. And we never really figured out what caused it.
 
orange150 said:
Been gun shy about what? The type of wheel or the type of lug nut?
Click to expand...
I guess the combination of the two. I try to call manufacturers of whatever wheels I run to find out what they recommend and still try to check them regurally. The wheels that failed in the crash were old style AR aluminums with parts store chromies.
 
Ran down to the local tire shop to make sure everything checked out ok. They said the holes for the studs had wallowed out when the tire was riding on the studs. They recommended, and showed me a lug nut made by Gorilla(?) that had the taper, but below the taper they had a small (less than 1/2") shank. I'm going to pick them up and hope that does me better.
 
There is also the issue of centering. Some wheels are hub centric and depend on the hub to center the wheels and some are lug centric and are centered by the lugnuts. Each has a different type of lugnut as well. Mis-matching those will cause issues as well
 
Be glad that you didn't have more damage. I had this happen on my gmc jimmy years ago that had aftermarket alloy wheels on it. I was running about 45 mph when the front wheel come off. I had fender, rotor and hub damage. We couldn't find the wheel/tire. The next day we found it about 300 yards away through thick woods. It broke branches and knocked over small trees the whole way through the woods. After that I rechecked the torque on those wheels every couple of wheels. I personally think some of it has to do with aftermarket wheels not fitting exactly perfect on the vehicle like stock ones. The center hole on most stock wheels sit snugly around the hub or axle flange. Most aftermarket wheels do not. Lots of factory wheels on newer cars are alloy and they don't seem to have this problem.
 
I thought all (serious / well name brand) alloys had steel inserts? Seems the steel inserts would equal the same taper as a steel wheel?
 
I would guess most issues come from either improper torque or using the wrong type of lug nut.

I have run alloy wheels for many years without issue but I am extremely anal about hand torqued lug nuts. Too many guys run them on with an impact and over torque causing the threads to stretch and loose their clamping power.
 
I've heard a improper lug torqueing combined with heat dissipation of a rotor can cause the rotor to warp. Seems very logical.
 
Ron might be on to something. I got some used aftermarket wheels for my CJ, the guys says let me get the lug nuts. I'm thinking I have several sets of lugs, don't bother, but he tells me these are specially for the wheels. He gives me these flange type, I've never seen that before. So when I get home and put these wheels on, I notice ther is no taper on the wheel, and the first almost inch of the nut inserts into the wheel before you engage any threads. I also notice it's a major PITA to install because the lug holes are a lot bigger than the lug stud; they are pretty close to the OD of the lug nut. You have to lift/chock the wheel up to start the first nut. But I digress...I can see if you used a traditional tapered lug nut on this, you would only get contact along the edge of the wheel, no face contact to the lug nut.
awww.crawlpedia.com_images_lug_nut_types.jpg
 
Tony,
Folks will laugh at this and if you are a Ron White fan you will laugh harder.
I worked for Sears for ~3 years while in college they send every tire tech through "tire college" after 6 months. Now any moron with a pulse can pass the test and get the .50/hour raise but if you actually paid attention you learn a lot of shit. Some of it I still use to this day. Like Hub Centric and Lug Centric wheel.
 
If I remember correctly, the Weld Racing Rims on my K30 say not to use a lug nut that has any kind of coating on the taper mating surfaces. They're a standard 60 degree taper though, nothing special. I've never had an issue with them backing off.

I'm also very prone to using a factory wheel if I can help it. I love H2 rims because of their diameter and width, they're coating makes them easy to clean, but most important to me is I don't have to use any fancy lug nuts!
 
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