Boirl Scouts

[Fabrik8]

In the small picture, its about the simple facts that sending hormonal teenagers into the woods together alone is a bad idea, and that fundamentally, boys and girls need different things at different times to mature, as well as the fact that boys and girls think and process things differently. Add all this up and its pretty clear that this is just a bad idea plain and simple.

Neither of those things have to do with brainwashing boys into thinking they are girls.

I do largely agree with what you just said, but not the previous post about brainwashing.


.....and we spent a lot of time in the woods as hormonal teenagers together while I was an Explorer Scout. In fact, that's all we did. No other scouting activities at all, just camping and backpacking.

 

[JSJJ388]

Neither of those things have to do with brainwashing boys into thinking they are girls.

I do largely agree with what you just said, but not the previous post about brainwashing.

By letting girls into an organization that is set up specifically for boys, and telling the boys that they have to let them do all that they do is not only detrimental to the boys, its not good for the girls either. they are being taught that your gender doesn't matter. Men and women are designed by God for two very different roles. Both are equally important, but vastly different.If the "progressives" had their way, gender would be non existent. This is one step closer. BSA is designed for boys. Hence why its the BOY SCOUTS. It should stay that way.

 

[UTfball68]

I've never been in or had an interest in boy scouts, but can read the internet. If it's a money grab by the BSA, they already have Coed programs, so what will this do??? Every time I've seen the argument that the girls want to do more than just sell cookies, there's a rebuttal that the curriculum is there if they're not in a crappy troop. Girl Scouts have the Gold Award, Boy Scouts have the Eagle Scout. None of the reasons I've seen for this make any real sense to me, unless this is nothing more than political move to be all-inclusive.

 

[jeepinmatt]

By letting girls into an organization that is set up specifically for boys, and telling the boys that they have to let them do all that they do is not only detrimental to the boys, its not good for the girls either. they are being taught that your gender doesn't matter. Men and women are designed by God for two very different roles. Both are equally important, but vastly different.If the "progressives" had their way, gender would be non existent. This is one step closer. BSA is designed for boys. Hence why its the BOY SCOUTS. It should stay that way.

So what if the organization is no longer "set up specifically for boys" but is instead set up for boys and girls, so that boys can still be boy scouts, and girls can now do camping and hiking and earn ranks instead of just selling mass produced cookies? I'm an Eagle Scout and pretty darn conservative, but you guys really are trying to read a lot in to this. I'm not really sure how I feel about it yet, but I see it more as providing opportunity for girls, not pussyfying the boys. Heck, by what yall tell me, that part is already done anyway, so why are you so worried?

 

[Fabrik8]

Men and women are designed by God for two very different roles. Both are equally important, but vastly different.

I'm hoping I'm not reading between the lines that the those two roles are "breadwinner" and "housewife".

 

[Fabrik8]

So what if the organization is no longer "set up specifically for boys" but is instead set up for boys and girls, so that boys can still be boy scouts, and girls can now do camping and hiking and earn ranks instead of just selling mass produced cookies? I'm an Eagle Scout and pretty darn conservative, but you guys really are trying to read a lot in to this. I'm not really sure how I feel about it yet, but I see it more as providing opportunity for girls, not pussyfying the boys. Heck, by what yall tell me, that part is already done anyway, so why are you so worried?

Get out of my head!

 

[UTfball68]

By letting girls into an organization that is set up specifically for boys

The issue only arises when you don't hold both sexes to the same standard. I don't give a rats ass if a female is participating in a male's event/organization...just hold them to the same standard. I've coached youth sports for years, I've had girls lead the league in tackles, rushing yards, home runs, wins, points scored, etc...but I won't play them just because they're a girl, if they're holding the team back, they'll be on the bench. I have no issues with an activity/organization being blind to gender, as long as the qualifications are the same. If that girl can build a better fire, shoot a more accurate arrow, build faster pinewood derby car...sign her up...but if she's only expected to be half as good as everyone else and will then bring them down, that's the problem.

 

[Fabrik8]

By letting girls into an organization that is set up specifically for boys, and telling the boys that they have to let them do all that they do is not only detrimental to the boys, its not good for the girls either. they are being taught that your gender doesn't matter.

I particularly love these statements. If this continues, girls will be allowed to have jobs, then will eventually work in science and engineering, and someday (if they're lucky) will even be allowed to vote.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[JSJJ388]

So what if the organization is no longer "set up specifically for boys" but is instead set up for boys and girls, so that boys can still be boy scouts, and girls can now do camping and hiking and earn ranks instead of just selling mass produced cookies? I'm an Eagle Scout and pretty darn conservative, but you guys really are trying to read a lot in to this. I'm not really sure how I feel about it yet, but I see it more as providing opportunity for girls, not pussyfying the boys. Heck, by what yall tell me, that part is already done anyway, so why are you so worried?

but you see, the opportunity is already there for girls. Its called Girl Scouts. Taking away from the Boy Scouts wont help girls. It will only make things less helpful for all involved. If you want a coed group, start one or go to one of the existing coed groups. but taking away from the Boy Scouts is not the answer.

I'm hoping I'm not reading between the lines that the those two roles are "breadwinner" and "housewife".

No need to read between the lines. Not that its terribly relevant, but Ill make it clear where I stand. It is the mans job to provide for his family, and the womans job to take care of said family. Now thats not to say that the wife cant work and the husband cant stay home with the kids, but, the Bible makes it very clear the role of husband and wife. My wife and I intend to follow Gods plan as best we can.

The issue only arises when you don't hold both sexes to the same standard. I don't give a rats ass if a female is participating in a male's event/organization...just hold them to the same standard. I've coached youth sports for years, I've had girls lead the league in tackles, rushing yards, home runs, wins, points scored, etc...but I won't play them just because they're a girl, if they're holding the team back, they'll be on the bench. I have no issues with an activity/organization being blind to gender, as long as the qualifications are the same. If that girl can build a better fire, shoot a more accurate arrow, build faster pinewood derby car...sign her up...but if she's only expected to be half as good as everyone else and will then bring them down, that's the problem.

I wasnt really referring to the issue of standards but you make a valid point. I was referring to the fact that BSA is designed to build boys into productive, strong men. Its not setup for girls.

 

[Atla]

Liberals ruin everything they touch.

I expect they will combine, and all sorts of problems will happen.

But if you ever look at one of the older Boy Scout books, it's appalling how far they have fallen. It used to be a great place for boys lacking a father figure, or for an often-absent father, to go to learn about manhood.

Now... not so much.

I wonder if they are allowed to 'man spread' when they sit?

 

[JSJJ388]

I particularly love these statements. If this continues, girls will be allowed to have jobs, then will eventually work in science and engineering, and someday (if they're lucky) will even be allowed to vote.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Now hold on just a dang minute! Women are just as important as men and have all the rights as men (I think I already said this), but men and women work and think differently. I get the sarcasm here, but I dont want anyone to misunderstand what I am saying either.

 

[Fabrik8]

Women are just as important as men and have all the rights as men (I think I already said this), but men and women work and think differently. I get the sarcasm here, but I dont want anyone to misunderstand what I am saying either.

No need to read between the lines. Not that its terribly relevant, but Ill make it clear where I stand. It is the mans job to provide for his family, and the womans job to take care of said family. Now thats not to say that the wife cant work and the husband cant stay home with the kids, but, the Bible makes it very clear the role of husband and wife.

Those two statements can clearly conflict, especially if you're a woman and would like the right to have a job that didn't involve being a housewife.

 

[JSJJ388]

Those two statements can clearly conflict, especially if you're a woman and would like the right to have a job that didn't involve being a housewife.

Dont really see how they conflict? I didnt say that a woman cant have a job. But it is the mans job to provide for his family. At least Biblically speaking. Not everyone is a Christian and not everyone will agree with me, its America and that is fine and dandy.

 

[McCracken]

That's not the slightest amount of simple logic. I fail to see how allowing girls to be part of that organization is somehow brainwashing boys into changing their gender identity.

Being around girls doesn't make you want to be a girl. If that were the case, schools would only have single-gender classes, because parents would refuse to tolerate anything else.

Somehow that logic breaks down when it's related to scouting but not to schools?

I see what he's saying. It says "Boy Scouts of America". Not "Gender Scouts of America". It was designed and created for boys not girls. Girl Scouts were designed and created for girls not boys. Allowing girls in with boys and boys in with girls violates the intent of the whole organization. I go to Boy Scouts to be around other boys and learn. As minuscule of a detail as it is to some I can see where it may change your thought. Oh girls can be Boys, boys can be Girls. Do I think this is a overwhelming liberal agenda in this specific case? No, but I do think it helps to blur the lines.

 

[UTfball68]

I wasnt really referring to the issue of standards but you make a valid point. I was referring to the fact that BSA is designed to build boys into productive, strong men. Its not setup for girls.

But that was my point/question...what makes it not set up for girls??? And shouldn't, ya know, the girl be the one to decide. My sisters grew up hunting, fishing, camping, shitting in the woods, wrenching, playing sports just like the 3 boys did. So I'm curious, what specifically the BSA has set up, that isn't female appropriate???

 

[McCracken]

I've never been in or had an interest in boy scouts, but can read the internet. If it's a money grab by the BSA, they already have Coed programs, so what will this do??? Every time I've seen the argument that the girls want to do more than just sell cookies, there's a rebuttal that the curriculum is there if they're not in a crappy troop. Girl Scouts have the Gold Award, Boy Scouts have the Eagle Scout. None of the reasons I've seen for this make any real sense to me, unless this is nothing more than political move to be all-inclusive.

Why have multiple Land Use groups? Whoever has the money can control the game the way they see fit.

 

[JSJJ388]

But that was my point/question...what makes it not set up for girls??? And shouldn't, ya know, the girl be the one to decide. My sisters grew up hunting, fishing, camping, shitting in the woods, wrenching, playing sports just like the 3 boys did. So I'm curious, what specifically the BSA has set up, that isn't female appropriate???

The structure and the material learned. Sure there is camping all the outdoor stuff, but at least in my troop, there was studying the Bible and learning what it means to be a man of God. Learning about what it means to stand up and take responsibility. Its also setup for the way boys think. Boys and girls think and mature differently. They understand and interpret things in totally different ways. BSA is at its core (or at least it used to be) an organization dedicated to helping boys grow into young men of God. That is why it was founded. If you change the purpose of the group, it will no longer be effective for its original purpose.

Why have multiple Land Use groups? Whoever has the money can control the game the way they see fit.

Why? Because Boy Scouts is for helping boys grow into men and Girl Scouts is for helping girls grow into women. Those two things happen in very different ways at different times. Also, why have more than one college? Why have more than one size bolt on a rig? Why do we have all terrains as well as mud terrains? They do and teach different things.

 

[McCracken]

So what if the organization is no longer "set up specifically for boys" but is instead set up for boys and girls, so that boys can still be boy scouts, and girls can now do camping and hiking and earn ranks instead of just selling mass produced cookies? I'm an Eagle Scout and pretty darn conservative, but you guys really are trying to read a lot in to this. I'm not really sure how I feel about it yet, but I see it more as providing opportunity for girls, not pussyfying the boys. Heck, by what yall tell me, that part is already done anyway, so why are you so worried?

Then train, promote and engage the current Girl Scout leadership so they can do all that shit. Boys and girls are different. They're made different and they act different. Groups of girls can empower each other just like boys can. Why can't the two organizations coexist and both provide opportunities for growth and learning?

But that was my point/question...what makes it not set up for girls??? And shouldn't, ya know, the girl be the one to decide. My sisters grew up hunting, fishing, camping, shitting in the woods, wrenching, playing sports just like the 3 boys did. So I'm curious, what specifically the BSA has set up, that isn't female appropriate???

Groups of young boys being young boys.

Whether you choose to recognize it or not, boys will act differently around girls. It's the same damn reason why men have Man Caves. They want a place of their own without women around to bitch at them. Why do we have to include everybody? When I was in Scouts we told dirty jokes, made spears to kill innocent creatures, played practical jokes which sometimes resulted in some kid not having clothes when we went swimming.... you know, shit like that.

 

[Fabrik8]

Also, why have more than one college? Why have more than one size bolt on a rig? Why do we have all terrains as well as mud terrains?

All of those things involve choices. You can choose what tire to use, what college to go to, what bolt size to use depend on what fits your needs.

Else you would force women to go to one college, and men to another, and force everyone to only use one specific tire for mud and another specific tire for rock. Kind of like scouting.

That was your point, right? I'm totally understanding all of this perfectly.

I just like to play Devil's advocate.

 

[UTfball68]

Why have multiple Land Use groups? Whoever has the money can control the game the way they see fit.

But nowhere have I seen that the other groups will get shut down...so they're just creating another coed group.

The structure and the material learned. Sure there is camping all the outdoor stuff, but at least in my troop, there was studying the Bible and learning what it means to be a man of God. Learning about what it means to stand up and take responsibility. Its also setup for the way boys think. Boys and girls think and mature differently. They understand and interpret things in totally different ways. BSA is at its core (or at least it used to be) an organization dedicated to helping boys grow into young men of God. That is why it was founded. If you change the purpose of the group, it will no longer be effective for its original purpose.

I dunno...just not really seeing your point. What's the difference in being a woman of God and a man of God??? What's the difference between a man standing up and taking responsibility and a woman??? But you're right girls do typically mature before boys.

Groups of young boys being young boys.

Whether you choose to recognize it or not, boys will act differently around girls. It's the same damn reason why men have Man Caves. They want a place of their own without women around to bitch at them. Why do we have to include everybody? When I was in Scouts we told dirty jokes, made spears to kill innocent creatures, played practical jokes which sometimes resulted in some kid not having clothes when we went swimming.... you know, shit like that.

I'm not saying everyone has to be included, that's actually the exact opposite of what I've been saying. I actually said if they are included, everyone should be held to the same standards. I'm just not buying the whole 'it's not designed to fit girls' excuse. If they want a boys club, by all means, have a boys club...but be the man the boyscouts supposedly turn you (generically speaking) in to, and find the balls to say you want a boys club.

 

[CasterTroy]

I particularly love these statements. If this continues, girls will be allowed to have jobs, then will eventually work in science and engineering, and someday (if they're lucky) will even be allowed to vote.

OMG, your sarcasm and contumelious opinion expressed online has totally opened my eyes and changed my way of thinking on this subject






*said no one ever

 

[JSJJ388]

All of those things involve choices. You can choose what tire to use, what college to go to, what bolt size to use depend on what fits your needs.

Else you would force women to go to one college, and men to another, and force everyone to only use one specific tire for mud and another specific tire for rock. Kind of like scouting.

That was your point, right? I'm totally understanding all of this perfectly.

Yup, you hit the nail on the head! Its about needs! Boys have vastly different needs than girls. A group structured for boys will never fit a group structured for girls and vice versa. You go to the college that best suits your needs. You use the tire that best suits your needs, the bolt, etc. ect......... BSA and GSA are designed to suit the needs of boys and girls respectively, but not interchangeably. Think about it, does a "universal fit" anything ever really fit right? You cant use a 10mm socket where a 13mm is needed, nor does the reverse work. Two needs, two tools.

 

[JSJJ388]

"UTfball68, post: 1564347, member: 7416"]But nowhere have I seen that the other groups will get shut down...so they're just creating another coed group.



I dunno...just not really seeing your point. What's the difference in being a woman of God and a man of God??? What's the difference between a man standing up and taking responsibility and a woman??? But you're right girls do typically mature before boys.


If you are genuinely confused about this PM and I will do my best to explain and help you. Im no Bible scholar but I will certainly do my best to help.



I'm not saying everyone has to be included, that's actually the exact opposite of what I've been saying. I actually said if they are included, everyone should be held to the same standards. I'm just not buying the whole 'it's not designed to fit girls' excuse. If they want a boys club, by all means, have a boys club...but be the man the boyscouts supposedly turn you (generically speaking) in to, and find the balls to say you want a boys club.

Its not just about "a boys club". Its about being able to help boys grow into men. Just like girl scouts is supposed to help girls grow into women. One curriculum cannot do both.[/QUOTE]

 

[McCracken]

I'm not saying everyone has to be included, that's actually the exact opposite of what I've been saying. I actually said if they are included, everyone should be held to the same standards. I'm just not buying the whole 'it's not designed to fit girls' excuse. If they want a boys club, by all means, have a boys club...but be the man the boyscouts supposedly turn you (generically speaking) in to, and find the balls to say you want a boys club.

I can agree with that

 

[UTfball68]

Its not just about "a boys club". Its about being able to help boys grow into men. Just like girl scouts is supposed to help girls grow into women. One curriculum cannot do both.

I think what you're getting dangerously close to saying, but not, is it's ok for young girls to do this...

Just not this...

Because they're two different curriculums and girls need to stay in their lane. Correct???