Alright big talkers...

So y’all talking about $1000 membership but who’s going to be willing to pay $1000 for a place to ride realistically? Also who’s going to pay that kinda $$$$ then spend every spare weekend doing trail maintenance and upgrades to the park? Sure as hell isn’t me, been there done that and never got to wheel the park I was a member of for those reasons. Only way this works is being run as a business with employees to do the work IMHO.
 
obullfish said:
So y’all talking about $1000 membership but who’s going to be willing to pay $1000 for a place to ride realistically? Also who’s going to pay that kinda $$$$ then spend every spare weekend doing trail maintenance and upgrades to the park? Sure as hell isn’t me, been there done that and never got to wheel the park I was a member of for those reasons. Only way this works is being run as a business with employees to do the work IMHO.
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RatLabGuy said:
Just for comparison, what is the acreage at Uwharrie? Trail system, not the whole park.
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I think its a little smaller than the Mt City property, around 3-4k acres. Hard to tell exactly what is OHV area on the GIS site, but that the land in between cotton place rd, moccasin creek rd, and wolf den road encompasses about 3500ish acres.
 
CasterTroy said:
Peasant. You were much more fun before when you were "single" :laughing:
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I'll echo @obullfish. Why should we have to front $1k? All I would want to do is show up an wheel, not financially support the park. The only way this get's off is if some bazillionare comes out with cash. Last I checked most of nc4x4 is middle class joe fucking salary man :dumbass:
 
Jody Treadway said:
We (a club) tried that twice and it failed miserably each time.
I'll pay the gate, roll in, wheel and go home. Zero interest in owning, managing, or in any way being responsible for wheeling property ever again.
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Yeah at RCPFA when we first got slapped down by the county and couldn't hold events anymore, we tried an annual fee model, and we couldn't even get enough members at $250 a year (Needed 40) to cover the very small lease we had, I Tried to get just a few members at $1000 a year (10 would have been enough) and I couldn't even get that (I had two people willing, Including me!) I don't think a $1000 a year is a workable number...
 
My best comparison would be the cove near Winchester which @zuke is familiar with. Entry fees for wheeling are pretty high, compared to other private parks, and only held a few times a year. But the park is multi purpose so they can bring in money other ways. Primarily as a campground I think…
 
NickMaul said:
My best comparison would be the cove near Winchester which @zuke is familiar with. Entry fees for wheeling are pretty high, compared to other private parks, and only held a few times a year. But the park is multi purpose so they can bring in money other ways. Primarily as a campground I think…
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The Cove is a great comparison and example of how to make something like that work... But also shows that an OHV park can't survive stand alone.

The Cove is a campground that has a lot of streams of income, of which Big Dogs is just a small part, and the relationship with the campground is often tenuous. People go to the Cove for many reasons, they have decent facilities that people go to just to camp there, they have Motocove for Dirt Bikes, ATV's, and SxSs (the campground manages that). They have a nice lake with fishing and non-motorized boating. They have two nice firing ranges. they have Music events and other entertainment events. Groups can arrange small private wheeling groups outside of Big Dogs, but this usually costs more per individual than Big Dogs events, and is variable since these groups negotiate directly with the family that owns the park.

Big Dogs is a separate entity, they're more or less like a promoter, they get the wheeling specific liability insurance for each event (they don't have an ongoing policy) and arrange the dates and keep a calendar. When you go to a Big Dogs event, You pay a fee to Big Dogs and you pay a fee to camp.

If you want to build an Offroad park, you need to generate income in other ways as well. The best way to do it is probably to build the campground first, since that can generate income all the time, Then build the OHV for SxS's and Bikes, That is a steadier stream of income, then finally you can try have events for full size 4x4s, Or, get a company like Big Dogs to come in and arrange events.
 
I loved wheeling at Callalantee. You don't need thousands of acres to have fun though. I think the Flats was only maybe 100-200 acres, and it had a bunch of great trails throughout the property.
 
Is the Flats still being used a pipe storage yard or something? I wonder if there is any chance of being able to wheel there again some day. That place was a ton of fun.
 
zuke said:
The Cove is a great comparison and example of how to make something like that work... But also shows that an OHV park can't survive stand alone.

The Cove is a campground that has a lot of streams of income, of which Big Dogs is just a small part, and the relationship with the campground is often tenuous. People go to the Cove for many reasons, they have decent facilities that people go to just to camp there, they have Motocove for Dirt Bikes, ATV's, and SxSs (the campground manages that). They have a nice lake with fishing and non-motorized boating. They have two nice firing ranges. they have Music events and other entertainment events. Groups can arrange small private wheeling groups outside of Big Dogs, but this usually costs more per individual than Big Dogs events, and is variable since these groups negotiate directly with the family that owns the park.

Big Dogs is a separate entity, they're more or less like a promoter, they get the wheeling specific liability insurance for each event (they don't have an ongoing policy) and arrange the dates and keep a calendar. When you go to a Big Dogs event, You pay a fee to Big Dogs and you pay a fee to camp.

If you want to build an Offroad park, you need to generate income in other ways as well. The best way to do it is probably to build the campground first, since that can generate income all the time, Then build the OHV for SxS's and Bikes, That is a steadier stream of income, then finally you can try have events for full size 4x4s, Or, get a company like Big Dogs to come in and arrange events.
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This.
You're not gonna turn a profit at $20 per rig/driver on wheeling weekends. You need the property to appeal to a broad range of users but also make sure those users aren't put off by SXS and wheelers being loud, tracking mud and general debauchery.
Windrock has a great model for this. But the property is also not being paid for by the users. SO there's that too.
A random successful human with 50-100 acres already setup with roads and some trails that is also in the sport(s) is an ideal candiate.
 
drkelly said:
Is the Flats still being used a pipe storage yard or something? I wonder if there is any chance of being able to wheel there again some day. That place was a ton of fun.
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It's a lay down yard for a gas company. They contacted the property owner, established a LEGALLY BINDING LEASE/CONTRACT and are paying him a nice chunk to use it. Who knows what will happen after they are done. The owner has passed away and his estate is in charge of the lease now.
 
zuke said:
The Cove is a great comparison and example of how to make something like that work... But also shows that an OHV park can't survive stand alone.
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Rausch Creek would disagree with you :flipoff2:

But in all seriousnes you points on The Cove are spot on.
 
Jody Treadway said:
It's a lay down yard for a gas company. They contacted the property owner, established a LEGALLY BINDING LEASE/CONTRACT and are paying him a nice chunk to use it. Who knows what will happen after they are done. The owner has passed away and his estate is in charge of the lease now.
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That sounds like a big no then. Dead owner is how we lost Callalantee too I believe.
 
zuke said:
The Cove is a great comparison and example of how to make something like that work... But also shows that an OHV park can't survive stand alone.

The Cove is a campground that has a lot of streams of income, of which Big Dogs is just a small part, and the relationship with the campground is often tenuous. People go to the Cove for many reasons, they have decent facilities that people go to just to camp there, they have Motocove for Dirt Bikes, ATV's, and SxSs (the campground manages that). They have a nice lake with fishing and non-motorized boating. They have two nice firing ranges. they have Music events and other entertainment events. Groups can arrange small private wheeling groups outside of Big Dogs, but this usually costs more per individual than Big Dogs events, and is variable since these groups negotiate directly with the family that owns the park.

Big Dogs is a separate entity, they're more or less like a promoter, they get the wheeling specific liability insurance for each event (they don't have an ongoing policy) and arrange the dates and keep a calendar. When you go to a Big Dogs event, You pay a fee to Big Dogs and you pay a fee to camp.

If you want to build an Offroad park, you need to generate income in other ways as well. The best way to do it is probably to build the campground first, since that can generate income all the time, Then build the OHV for SxS's and Bikes, That is a steadier stream of income, then finally you can try have events for full size 4x4s, Or, get a company like Big Dogs to come in and arrange events.
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This day and time, if you had an area with a place to host weddings, that could cover alot right there. In a place as large as this, it wouldnt need to get anywhere near the offroad stuff, or a campground. GMP would be a great place to look at that, as there are structures existing, just maybe not in the best locations.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Rausch Creek would disagree with you :flipoff2:
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I'm not sure they (Or AOAA) would disagree with me... I don't know their models nearly as well as I know the Cove's, Though I'm starting to spend more time at those two parks than the Cove...

Both those parks are on former Strip Mine lands, which severely limits the lands use, (can't really be developed without significat up front investment) But I believe in both cases, The land is owned free and clear by the operators (Old Money) so the only cost for the land is annual taxes...

If I suddenly come into 500 Million or so $$$, i might buy land in NC and build a strictly offroad park as a way to intentionally lose some money (The truly rich do that) I'd do it, but I sure wouldn't expect to make money on it...
 
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