Where are the employees?

[Lizooki]

When my BIL was a teacher he was complaining about pay. When I mentioned having all the time off, he said it was because they were "contact" employees. I reminded him that contact employees at my jobs got paid for their time, no benefits, and no paid vacation. I also reminded him that when he signed said contract it included his pay for the 10 months of work.

I have a lot of teachers and education employees in my family.
They stopped complaining about money around me when I broke it down on the 10 month basis and showed them what they really made compared to the average working stiff.
What made them the maddest was me debunking their whole "I make less than minimum wage" argument.
Then I told them they could find a job for the other two months ...... It wasn't out fault the chose not to work for 1\5 of the year.

 

[JSJJ388]

Wake county EMS just crushed the state and surrounding. They increased their starting wages to $28 an hour. Starting basically everywhere else is $17-20

It has me seriously considering a career change.

 

[DSM Turbos]

I have a lot of teachers and education employees in my family.
They stopped complaining about money around me when I broke it down on the 10 month basis and showed them what they really made compared to the average working stiff.
What made them the maddest was me debunking their whole "I make less than minimum wage" argument.
Then I told them they could find a job for the other two months ...... It wasn't out fault the chose not to work for 1\5 of the year.

I hear that argument a lot, but what job can they really find for only 2 months, that is the same general hours they work now? I know several friends when they were younger teaching they would work at restaurants, etc but that gets harder when you are a teacher also with a family.

 

[UTfball68]

I hear that argument a lot, but what job can they really find for only 2 months, that is the same general hours they work now? I know several friends when they were younger teaching they would work at restaurants, etc but that gets harder when you are a teacher also with a family.

A lot of my friends will work retail like hobby lobby or summer camp/programs.

 

[ghost]

I hear that argument a lot, but what job can they really find for only 2 months, that is the same general hours they work now? I know several friends when they were younger teaching they would work at restaurants, etc but that gets harder when you are a teacher also with a family.

A lot of my friends will work retail like hobby lobby or summer camp/programs.

Yep. There are plenty of seasonal jobs.

 

[NCJeeplover]

summer camp/programs.

I agree with this. There are plenty of summer camps and programs that teacher can work if they wanted.

 

[RatLabGuy]

I hear that argument a lot, but what job can they really find for only 2 months, that is the same general hours they work now? I know several friends when they were younger teaching they would work at restaurants, etc but that gets harder when you are a teacher also with a family.

A lot of my friends will work retail like hobby lobby or summer camp/programs.

My granddad did construction work, and taght driver's ed.
Others teach summer classes at the local community college.

 

[Wes]

A few work summer school (if offered), but it doesn’t pay their normal pay. At least in the local districts it doesn’t. My mom did it last summer and swore she’d never do it again. Turd kids for less pay.

 

[RatLabGuy]

A few work summer school (if offered), but it doesn’t pay their normal pay. At least in the local districts it doesn’t. My mom did it last summer and swore she’d never do it again. Turd kids for less pay.

yep. As a general rule the good kids aren't in summer school.
Much better to teach summer classes at the community college. They tend to be motivated adults who are trying to make up for lost time, or in counties that have dual enrollment, nerdy HS kids who want to get ahead.

 

[BigBody79]

Our summer school year is paying good money to get teachers. Our teachers are starting at $50.00 an hour to teach summer school. Most teachers hourly play calculates to $25.00 to 32.00 an hour. Even at $50.00 an hour they didn't have their pick. Still not enough teachers. My pay as an administrator was 65/75 I think. Honestly, I didn't think twice about doing it.

As was said before that summer off is a huge benefit for teachers. No way am I giving that up.

 

[Lizooki]

I hear that argument a lot, but what job can they really find for only 2 months, that is the same general hours they work now? I know several friends when they were younger teaching they would work at restaurants, etc but that gets harder when you are a teacher also with a family.

Every daycare program in the nation needs help during the off months.
Enterainment ..... theaters, parks, rec. depts, etc, all need summer help.

 

[Lizooki]

yep. As a general rule the good kids aren't in summer school.
Much better to teach summer classes at the community college. They tend to be motivated adults who are trying to make up for lost time, or in counties that have dual enrollment, nerdy HS kids who want to get ahead.

That must be a local phenomenon.
My wife, daughter, a cousin did summer school and made good money.
Two friends just do sub work and live for summer school and do well for part-time.
My wife now works part-time in the Comm College system high school programs and makes almost as much as I do.

 

[CLRracer]

Wake county EMS just crushed the state and surrounding. They increased their starting wages to $28 an hour. Starting basically everywhere else is $17-20

Cary Fire posted jobs today, 48k/yr for no experience, 50k with certs, and 2k hiring bonus. That's more than most are hiring driver/operators at in Wake and Johnston Counties.

Duane

 

[1-tonmudder]

My SIL does accounts receivable at the second/third highest payin place in town (startin pay is $17.50-$20 hr) and they are having a drive thru job fair on Sat.The last time they had one(non drive in)they had 3 people come by.So now they aren't even gonna have to get out of their car to get an application.Im not sure how they expect to get any GOOD employees when they dont even have to walk in to the place for an application.

 

[ManglerYJ]

Well, I finally landed me a job and I start tomorrow. I actually had three very strong job possibilities and ended up with two companies presenting offers to work. One was a 100% remote job for a relatively new marketing consulting firm out of Austin, TX and the other was doing marketing for a Winston Salem based financial services firm. The Austin job's biggest draw was the lack of a commute, but the position was more of marketing planning than actual execution, which I enjoy more. The Winston job I will have complete control of everything marketing related (fun stuff!), but will require a commute everyday in my Tahoe for a couple months until the summer when my wife and I will trade cars. Since she has the summers off, the longest drive she will have will be to the pool and she will need the hauling space for kids. By the end of summer we plan to have saved between $5000 and $7000 to get a commuter car so we can save the miles on the Tahoe.

 

[Loganwayne]

Had planned to look for a new job after my wedding. Job with a company ive been watching and had some serious interest in opened up 3 jobs last week, have an interview tomorrow. Hopefully it goes well and they will be accommodating to me being gone for a little over a week no long after i start if they offer me a job.

 

[DSM Turbos]

Had planned to look for a new job after my wedding. Job with a company ive been watching and had some serious interest in opened up 3 jobs last week, have an interview tomorrow. Hopefully it goes well and they will be accommodating to me being gone for a little over a week no long after i start if they offer me a job.

If they aren't understanding of stuff that is planned, that isn't a place you want to work for.

My second week into my new job I had to be out unexpected, no questions asked at all from leadership, I told my director if you were going to question this, this wouldn't be a good place for me to work.

 

[Loganwayne]

If they aren't understanding of stuff that is planned, that isn't a place you want to work for.

My second week into my new job I had to be out unexpected, no questions asked at all from leadership, I told my director if you were going to question this, this wouldn't be a good place for me to work.

yep thats how i feel. im 7 weeks out from the wedding, i figure it will still take 2-3 weeks to finalize everything with them IF they offer me a job, plus im going to offer to work a 2 week notice where im at now.

 

[gslander]

Nothing more annoying than listening to teachers complain about pay. My wife had some friends who were teachers (not in NC) and they stopped complaining to me after I just giving them the 'but you have summers off" and "your pay should be based on how well you teach your students" and they stopped talking to me about it LOL!!

Back on topic we have this discussion all the time at work on where all the workers are. We start at $20 an hour, with full benefits, 401k and a retail store discount to throw boxes in and out of trucks and can barely get people in the door, let alone stay, and they still complain when they are there. Not to sound like a boomer, but that's pretty damn good benefit and pay package for unskilled labor and for a company that shoots their wad over promoting people up the chain. I tell new hires all the time all you have to do is show up, don't be a PITA to your supervisor and be somewhat nice and you will have a long career, they seem to ignore that advice a lot!

 

[rcalexander105]

Nothing more annoying than listening to teachers complain about pay. My wife had some friends who were teachers (not in NC) and they stopped complaining to me after I just giving them the 'but you have summers off" and "your pay should be based on how well you teach your students" and they stopped talking to me about it LOL!!

I'm going to come off as an ass here, but I'm good w/ that.

The "pay for performance" (i.e., "your pay should be based on how well you teach your students") is where you're dead wrong. This simply isn't how it works in public education so explicitly stating that to those who earn a living in that space makes you look like a dumb, insensitive ass (which is prob why they don't want to talk to you about it anymore; frankly, can't say I blame them). This is how it should work and largely how things work in the private sector, but not in the public education sector (I'm assuming we're talking about public educators here as they make up the majority of this population).

There are very marginal spot bonuses for high EOG scores, for example, some teachers may get and I fully recognize that; but the pay disparity you're alluding to in the argument of "do better to get more" is simply not how comp is structured in this sector.

I have never met a single person that works in the school system that went into it for pay. Now, that doesn't mean they can't make a point on how their worth of shaping the next generation is undervalued. This is no different that you, or anybody else, exemplifying of how you're undervalued and should get a raise.

There's an argument to be made about having summers off, but it's probably more along the "pro-rata your pay across the time you work, then apply that to a full year and that's your hypothetical annualized pay".

 

[gslander]

I'm going to come off as an ass here, but I'm good w/ that.

The "pay for performance" (i.e., "your pay should be based on how well you teach your students") is where you're dead wrong. This simply isn't how it works in public education so explicitly stating that to those who earn a living in that space makes you look like a dumb, insensitive ass (which is prob why they don't want to talk to you about it anymore; frankly, can't say I blame them). This is how it should work and largely how things work in the private sector, but not in the public education sector (I'm assuming we're talking about public educators here as they make up the majority of this population).

There are very marginal spot bonuses for high EOG scores, for example, some teachers may get and I fully recognize that; but the pay disparity you're alluding to in the argument of "do better to get more" is simply not how comp is structured in this sector.

I have never met a single person that works in the school system that went into it for pay. Now, that doesn't mean they can't make a point on how their worth of shaping the next generation is undervalued. This is no different that you, or anybody else, exemplifying of how you're undervalued and should get a raise.

There's an argument to be made about having summers off, but it's probably more along the "pro-rata your pay across the time you work, then apply that to a full year and that's your hypothetical annualized pay".

I'm fine with being called an ass because teachers whining annoy me. You also made my point in the public vs private performance standards which also pisses me off as it squanders the money that's forcefully taken from me.

My point to them is get a job with some performance criteria that pays more, or live with having large chunks of the year off and being almost unfireable.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

I'm going to come off as an ass here, but I'm good w/ that.

The "pay for performance" (i.e., "your pay should be based on how well you teach your students") is where you're dead wrong. This simply isn't how it works in public education so explicitly stating that to those who earn a living in that space makes you look like a dumb, insensitive ass (which is prob why they don't want to talk to you about it anymore; frankly, can't say I blame them). This is how it should work and largely how things work in the private sector, but not in the public education sector (I'm assuming we're talking about public educators here as they make up the majority of this population).

There are very marginal spot bonuses for high EOG scores, for example, some teachers may get and I fully recognize that; but the pay disparity you're alluding to in the argument of "do better to get more" is simply not how comp is structured in this sector.

I have never met a single person that works in the school system that went into it for pay. Now, that doesn't mean they can't make a point on how their worth of shaping the next generation is undervalued. This is no different that you, or anybody else, exemplifying of how you're undervalued and should get a raise.

There's an argument to be made about having summers off, but it's probably more along the "pro-rata your pay across the time you work, then apply that to a full year and that's your hypothetical annualized pay".

Agreed

The biggest point you missed and why you cannot base teacher pay on student performance is this: great teachers do not make great students. It is still the students responsibility to be engaged and do the work. This is where standard testing, modern administration, and MOST OF ALL PARENTS are failing the system.

I'll defend my wife all day and every day who is passionate and extremely good at her job. With the education and effort she puts into every classroom system she could easily double her salary in the public sector. I have often tried to persuade her to pursue another career. Its her calling. She's damn good at it and the best part is before the "bull" of the current she did exactly what she loves.

 

[WARRIORWELDING]

I'm fine with being called an ass because teachers whining annoy me. You also made my point in the public vs private performance standards which also pisses me off as it squanders the money that's forcefully taken from me.

My point to them is get a job with some performance criteria that pays more, or live with having large chunks of the year off and being almost unfireable.

You really don't get how public education works from the inside. Un able to be fired or dismissed? You really need to open your mind and have a conversation with folks you have not already made angry. You obviously are not getting a good picture of how it really works. Or your just to stubborn to hear it.

BTW, I taught at the community college level.......you think poor teachers exist in public education, you'd be amazed at the standards and potential lax nature of folk who never pursued a degree in teaching but are now teaching "expertise" in a given subject matter.

 

[gslander]

You really don't get how public education works from the inside. Un able to be fired or dismissed? You really need to open your mind and have a conversation with folks you have not already made angry. You obviously are not getting a good picture of how it really works. Or your just to stubborn to hear it.

BTW, I taught at the community college level.......you think poor teachers exist in public education, you'd be amazed at the standards and potential lax nature of folk who never pursued a degree in teaching but are now teaching "expertise" in a given subject matter.

I should have articulated myself better, I was talking with public sector unionized teachers in Illinois which probably a whole different beast than in NC. Full disclosure for me I was privately educated and I can barely do multiplication in my head, so it's no better there either.

I guess the next question is how does the public education system really work then? The picture I have is it's almost slave labor with no benefit and only people doing it for the love of the kids, and totally not for the time off at all.

What I will push back on the no teaching degree part of your comment is the people who I learned the most from in college were people doing it not as a full time gif. Example being former company board members teaching business classes and specific subject matter like that. Degree doesn't equal competence in my mind.

 

[rcalexander105]

I had a whole response written out only to come to the conclusion that I'm not going to change your mind on anything so it's a waste of my time.

That said, I think you nailed these two point...

I should have articulated myself better

Degree doesn't equal competence in my mind.

Food for thought...you do realize in the points you're making that you're implicitly drawing the same conclusions with first responders, right? If you don't understand my point here, then you've made my point in my first sentence too.