Paying for College

[UTfball68]

So which degrees won’t you pay for?

Probably easier to identify the ones I would pay for are the ones that require a degree to get in to the field of choice.

Edit…remember just because 80% of people aren’t in the field of their chosen degree…most of those roles still require a degree of some sort, and an education in certain fields still provides experience and opens doors that are otherwise unattainable.

 

[CasterTroy]

Probably easier to identify the ones I would pay for are the ones that require a degree to get in to the field of choice.

Edit…remember just because 80% of people aren’t in the field of their chosen degree…most of those roles still require a degree of some sort, and an education in certain fields still provides experience and opens doors that are otherwise unattainable.

dude just say you wouldn't pay for "women's studies"

 

[orange150]

dude just say you wouldn't pay for "women's studies"

No I think he’s saying he’d pay for his kids to be an OB/GYN

 

[CLRracer]

No I think he’s saying he’d pay for his kids to be an OB/GYN

Since you bring that up, there is no specific undergrad degree requirement for doctors, just that the student has some basic sciences and humanities classes and actually obtains a BS or BA. So a doctor could have a BA in underwater basket weaving as long as they took enough science classes lol.

Duane

 

[justjeepin86]

I'm actually surprised that mine was the first (and so far only) No. My dad made too much money for me to qualify for financial aid. I was too stupid to get good grades to qualify for scholarships, so the only options I had were student loans or busting my ass and working my way through college on my own. My brother (who got all the smarts in the family) had to take student loans to pay for his engineering school. I saw how quickly they added up to a butt-ton of money and he recently finally paid them all off in his 50's. Instead, I did the following to get my degree from Michigan State:

-Move pianos at a local music store ($5 an hour back in 1991 was good money, even for back breaking labor)
-Hawk pizzas for Dominoes at football games ($1 for each pizza sold - would come home from a football game with $100+ and a bunch of leftover pizza to fill fridge
-Sold spring break trips for a travel company. Earned commissions plus every 25 South Padre Island trips equaled a free one, every 20 Cancun trips sold gets a free one. We were top sellers in the country 3 years in a row. Sold the free ones at a reduced rate for cash.
-started my own advertising company selling ad space on calendars and discount cards. Worked with local print houses to print then distribute.
- Resident manager of our apartment complex for free rent. Rented out apartments and earned extra cash cleaning/painting them when turned over.

Never took one student loan, and after the first semester only bought books once I was sure I needed it. I now am in the same situation as my dad, making too much for my kids to qualify for financial aid.

That brings me to my first daughter, who just graduated from the dual enrollment program. She got her associates degree and her high school diploma at the same time - all paid for by tax dollars. She has been saving since she was 12 for college by doing chores around the house. We pay half in cash and require half to be saved. Sort of like the .gov. She paid her first semester at Liberty using that money and continues to work at the local pool and the YMCA as a life guard. She busts her butt the same way I did, just with a different end-game in mind. She is pursuing Paralegal Studies.

Daughter 2 has been saving the same way and is now lifeguarding as well. She begins Sophomore year at high school tomorrow.

My son has aspirations of military service for his future, but I'd like to push him towards the apprenticeship program at work. Skilled trades with an associates degree all paid for with good paying jobs thereafter.

Crappy part is all that work you did could never pay for college these days. It's that much more expensive than it was back then. I think it's pretty cool you had the work ethic to do all that. I was too busy flunking out on my parents money. I'm pretty ashamed of that, but you can't turn back time.

 

[CasterTroy]

It's that much more expensive than it was back then.

State schools are not that bad at all. I never paid more than $14k a semester for school itself.

 

[justjeepin86]

State schools are not that bad at all. I never paid more than $14k a semester for school itself.

28k per year isn't that bad?

 

[CasterTroy]

28k per year isn't that bad?

Not at all compared to wake or (heaven forbid) out of state, whole college career still less than a new Escalade

 

[justjeepin86]

Not at all compared to wake or (heaven forbid) out of state, whole college career still less than a new Escalade

Well, I'm in a 2004 minvan

 

[jeepinmatt]

I was too busy flunking out on my parents money. I'm pretty ashamed of that, but you can't turn back time.

My brother from another mother! Hence the reason for this thread. It was handed to me, so I didn’t appreciate it and squandered the opportunity in some ways.

 

[awheelterd]

My brother from another mother! Hence the reason for this thread. It was handed to me, so I didn’t appreciate it and squandered the opportunity in some ways.

Same. I didn't flunk out, but I sure didn't optimize my potential at the time. I intend to have much firmer expectations for my boys than my parents did for me. I could.have definitely benefitted from some stronger guidelines.

 

[UTfball68]

dude just say you wouldn't pay for "women's studies"

I mean…yeah…but seriously, there are only about 20 programs from the 2021 UNC degree list that I’d be willing to pay for. Let’s put it another way, if the field your degree is in, can’t pay off the loans for your degree, I’m not interested. I can’t believe some of these are actually a thing…

 

[CLRracer]

So if they get a useless women's studies degree then go to med school and become a surgeon, would you pay for it then? Not that I disagree with your idea, just being a devils advocate. Or asshole, your pick lol.

Duane

 

[RatLabGuy]

Most degrees are bullshit. What % of people actually use their degree?

I usd mine to get another degree. And that one led to another.
But that one I use all the time

 

[UTfball68]

So if they get a useless women's studies degree then go to med school and become a surgeon, would you pay for it then? Not that I disagree with your idea, just being a devils advocate. Or asshole, your pick lol.

Duane

1) the likelihood of that happening would be slim to none, in my opinion. There are still pre-requisites and best practice courses to take to pass the entrance exam(s).

2) in the event they have a gameplan to justify a women’s studies degree, and it kept them on a path to take the next step, I’d hear it out, however unlikely or illogical that path would be…but there are exceptions to every rule.

3) I still may get taken for 2yrs of school, but that’s why I wouldn’t be paying for the first 2.

 

[jeepinmatt]

Speaking of slackers, why are we almost to page 3 and no one has posted this?

 

[RatLabGuy]

1) the likelihood of that happening would be slim to none, in my opinion. There are still pre-requisites and best practice courses to take to pass the entrance exam(s).

2) in the event they have a gameplan to justify a women’s studies degree, and it kept them on a path to take the next step, I’d hear it out, however unlikely or illogical that path would be…but there are exceptions to every rule.

3) I still may get taken for 2yrs of school, but that’s why I wouldn’t be paying for the first 2.

I hate to tell you, but I work with a lot of people that have "weird" bachelors degrees like womens studies, music, theology, literature, etc that make 6 figures a year now.
They all used used it to go to graduate school of some sort. Some law degrees, some PhDs, etc. And 90% of them had no "plan" until about their junior year or so.
One of my best friends got his degre in Journalism, then went to law school.

 

[UTfball68]

I hate to tell you, but I work with a lot of people that have "weird" bachelors degrees like womens studies, music, theology, literature, etc that make 6 figures a year now.
They all used used it to go to graduate school of some sort. Some law degrees, some PhDs, etc. And 90% of them had no "plan" until about their junior year or so.
One of my best friends got his degre in Journalism, then went to law school.

Which should be covered in bullet point 2…I’d be willing to bet the overwhelming majority of folks getting weird degrees, aren’t continuing their education. But I’ll let you pull the stats on that.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Which should be covered in bullet point 2…

Your criterion aren't reasonable for most people though. A lot of kids, and probably 95% of the people I'm thinking of, don't really consolidate on that plan until they are about into that senior year when the details of the career possibilities and network connections and such become evident. Thats past your cutoff point.

Let’s put it another way, if the field your degree is in, can’t pay off the loans for your degree, I’m not interested.

Also, it sounds to me like you're putting all the emphasis on the importance of money as the basis for a career and happy life, and being useful to society. Or at least the first and I'm extrapolating the rest.
Sorry but I think we just have a difference of opinion here. IMO people need to do what they are called for and society needs, not what pays them the best return on investment.
There are lots of very satisfying and societally useful careers that unfortunately the degree cost doesn't match the payout.
Teachers are the obvious one. Social work, forestry sciences, lots of things thats we generally agree are super important jobs that just pay shit.
Of course the obvious answer there is, "don't go to Columbia for $60k/year and get a teaching degree when you can get the same job from a state school for a lot less."

 

[UTfball68]

Your criterion aren't reasonable for most people though. A lot of kids, and probably 95% of the people I'm thinking of, don't really consolidate on that plan until they are about into that senior year when the details of the career possibilities and network connections and such become evident. Thats past your cutoff point.

Also, it sounds to me like you're putting all the emphasis on the importance of money as the basis for a career and happy life, and being useful to society. Or at least the first and I'm extrapolating the rest.
Sorry but I think we just have a difference of opinion here. IMO people need to do what they are called for and society needs, not what pays them the best return on investment.
There are lots of very satisfying and societally useful careers that unfortunately the degree cost doesn't match the payout.
Teachers are the obvious one. Social work, forestry sciences, lots of things thats we generally agree are super important jobs that just pay shit.
Of course the obvious answer there is, "don't go to Columbia for $60k/year and get a teaching degree when you can get the same job from a state school for a lot less."

As I’ve said numerous times before, I personally don’t believe parenting starts when decisions need to be made. I also don’t think parenting ends at 18. In my opinion, if a kid doesn’t know what they want to do until senior year, that’s damn near negligence. While I understand kids flopping around not defining their goals in college is generally accepted, that’s just not something I can support. That’s not to say they can’t be successful or find their way, but a little more support and structure sounds like it could have even helped people in this thread.

And yes, my emphasis is most definitely career earnings, whether underwater welder or world renown attorney or anything that can make bank. Obviously, nothing is guaranteed, not everyone can be a rockstar, but you can be put on a path to become one. I’m working with a guy now who dropped out in 6th grade, can’t read or write and has sold the business twice that I just absorbed, and has $20mil in his pocket…I’m not going to advocate or promote that path either. While I do want my kids to be happy, like I posted the other day ‘find a job you love, you’ll never work a day in your life’, has to be one of the biggest lies ever told, albeit noble. Work is work, no one wants to be there…find the escape button as soon as possible. Best I can tell, there are only two options for that, become a hobo, or make as much money as fast as you can. I’ve been broke, I’ve had money…I’ll take having money every single time.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Back to @jeepinmatt 's question

Mostly 529s. Actually pretty much exclusively up until recently. Son's was started late bc we couldn't afford much when he was born, but been doing contributions all of Daughter's life. A few years ago I did the math and realized the rate was nowhere near enough based on projections so we upped the monthly contributions substantially.
We basically told the kids we'd pay for the first $100k and anything more is on them. Jonas got a nice scholarship at a very affordable private school and it will cover it w/ room & board, but any expenses outside of education is on him (car, gas, food out, etc) so he still has to work summers etc and use his moey for living costs.

It's mind blowing how much it costs, and I often think about the very nice garage I could have. However last I looked not having college debt was the #1 predictor of financial success and independence among young people... and while we consider it an investment in their potential success - and independence from us (e.g. cuttin goff long term leeching) - its also an investment in our care when we're old.... need at least one of these brats to be well off enough to see we are properly cared for later.

 

[RatLabGuy]

As I’ve said numerous times before, I personally don’t believe parenting starts when decisions need to be made. I also don’t think parenting ends at 18. In my opinion, if a kid doesn’t know what they want to do until senior year, that’s damn near negligence. While I understand kids flopping around not defining their goals in college is generally accepted, that’s just not something I can support. That’s not to say they can’t be successful or find their way, but a little more support and structure sounds like it could have even helped people in this thread.

Sorry, I guess we'll just disagree on this.
My parents were - are - absolutely awesome parents, both from firm guidance to allowing just enough room to hang myself.
And gues what, I didn't know wtf I wanted to do until I was a senior. Hell I changed again after getting a Masters.
And I could point to dozens of friends just like me.

And yes, my emphasis is most definitely career earnings, whether underwater welder or world renown attorney or anything that can make bank. Obviously, nothing is guaranteed, not everyone can be a rockstar, but you can be put on a path to become one. I’m working with a guy now who dropped out in 6th grade, can’t read or write and has sold the business twice that I just absorbed, and has $20mil in his pocket…I’m not going to advocate or promote that path either. While I do want my kids to be happy, like I posted the other day ‘find a job you love, you’ll never work a day in your life’, has to be one of the biggest lies ever told, albeit noble. Work is work, no one wants to be there…find the escape button as soon as possible. Best I can tell, there are only two options for that, become a hobo, or make as much money as fast as you can. I’ve been broke, I’ve had money…I’ll take having money every single time.

So would you not pay for a teaching degree, social work, etc? Just because they don't pay well?

 

[UTfball68]

Sorry, I guess we'll just disagree on this.
My parents were - are - absolutely awesome parents, both from firm guidance to allowing just enough room to hang myself.
And gues what, I didn't know wtf I wanted to do until I was a senior. Hell I changed again after getting a Masters.
And I could point to dozens of friends just like me.

So would you not pay for a teaching degree, social work, etc? Just because they don't pay well?

We will have to agree to disagree…and no, I wouldn’t pay for those degrees. They’re noble degrees, and I’d be happy they’re happy, but not something I’d be willing to invest in.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Slight tangent but some tips on 529s for those not in the know.

- the $$ is not taxed on capitol gains. Ever. As long as you use it for educational purposes - and the definition is pretty broad. Soit can save a lot of $$ in the long run.
- 529 $$ can be transferred between family members w/o any penalty. So if kid #1 goes military etc, just slide the $$ into kid #2s account. Or transfer to a nephew. Or save it for a grand child.
- starting this year, up to $35k can be transferred to an IRA. E.g. if kiddo doesn't need it, just transfer to a retirement account. That $$ put itno retirement at the age of say 25 will make a huge difference 40 years later. Hell possibly as much as if they'd had that degree .
- (the big one nobody thinks about) - you don't HAVE to use the NC-based 529 account. Many states allow you to use their investment plan, and they all have different average rates of return. We continued contributing to NC after moving to MD. I haven't looked recently but NC generally performs better than MD. Indiana at one point was way above the others.
- BUT - NC allows up to $2500 in state tax deductions if you do use their plan. MD is similar, and is based on each person, not taxpaying household. So if I contribute $2500 to each kids plan and my wofe does also we can deduct $10k. This means its a math game whether using your own state at a lower performing rate but with a deduction is a better deal or not.
- A student's 529 $$ counts in their income for FAFSA purposes (what determined loan / grant eligibility). But if the account is owned by not them or their parent (e.g. a grandparent) then it doesn't.

 

[DSM Turbos]

As I’ve said numerous times before, I personally don’t believe parenting starts when decisions need to be made. I also don’t think parenting ends at 18. In my opinion, if a kid doesn’t know what they want to do until senior year, that’s damn near negligence.

Well I guess my parents were negligent. I had no freaking clue at 18 years old what I wanted to do. I went through 3 different majors in college, wound up with business because I didn't know what I wanted to do and it seemed like a decent option. When I graduated I didn't really know what I wanted to do either. Hell, I don't know if at almost 40 now, I really know what I want to do.

I have my mba now also, and so I guess i'm the negligent one and not my parents

We will have to agree to disagree…and no, I wouldn’t pay for those degrees. They’re noble degrees, and I’d be happy they’re happy, but not something I’d be willing to invest in.

Clearly what you do works for you and your family, and I can see why based on all your posts, but it seems like you treat everything like a business that has to have some ROI. Hopefully it works out in the long run. Telling my kid sorry I'll only pay for college if they want to do X, Y, or Z I can't imagine, but that's why we are all free to parent differently. I'll invest in their happiness, I hope my kid picks something that makes them happy that pays the bills, I could care less if they make 30k a year or 300k a year, I'll help them the same as long as they put in work.


@jeepinmatt asked a simple question and we can't even stay on track