14 bolt front tech

Van-go

Van-go

Not an old man
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Location
Greensboro
School me on building a 14 front axle.
Did some digging and didn’t see any good info on NC4X4.
according to this thread https://nc4x4.com/forum/threads/pirate-is-over.197751/ there’s not any new tech here :flipoff2:

Also don’t tell me to go search pirate...

What I want to do:
Driver drop.
14 bolt center section.
05+ superduty outers.
40 spline (stock SD length) shafts
ECGS has 40 spline SD front shafts for a good deal with big 1550 ctm joints...

what specific 14 bolt is best for donor?
Ribbed? Dually? Dual ribbed? Old? New?
How do you get big round thingy into small hole?
(Big SD Dana 60 tube into small 14 housing)
How do you make sure you have the correct axle tube length to run stock length shafts?
What parts do I need to buy?
What do I need to dig out of the junk yard?
Seals?
Am I asking too many questions?

D199D3C3-DDBA-4935-B734-C3E675C2021B.jpeg
 
I've done a little bit of research off and on on this topic out of curiosity. Looking forward to see input from those more knowledgeable than me. As far as seals, this is what I've found.

Seals:
There are two common designs. One that seals on the ID of the tube, and one that replaces the spanners and seals inside the pumpkin. The ones that seal on the ID of the tube seem to be beneficial for rear axles that are being converted to unit bearings. It allows the seal to be placed on the ends of the axle for more fluid volume that is typical with rear axles. 14 bolt 40 spline axle seals

The other style is once that Crane came out with (Revolution 40 Spline 14 Bolt Inner Seal Kit). I think the advantage of this is that it is a similar design to most front axle seals and places the seal in an area of reduced deflection of the axle shaft (which would mean less wear of the seal).
 
Van-go said:
School me on building a 14 front axle.
Did some digging and didn’t see any good info on NC4X4.
according to this thread https://nc4x4.com/forum/threads/pirate-is-over.197751/ there’s not any new tech here :flipoff2:

Also don’t tell me to go search pirate...

What I want to do:
Driver drop.
14 bolt center section.
05+ superduty outers.
40 spline (stock SD length) shafts
ECGS has 40 spline SD front shafts for a good deal with big 1550 ctm joints...

what specific 14 bolt is best for donor?
Ribbed? Dually? Dual ribbed? Old? New?
How do you get big round thingy into small hole?
(Big SD Dana 60 tube into small 14 housing)
How do you make sure you have the correct axle tube length to run stock length shafts?
What parts do I need to buy?
What do I need to dig out of the junk yard?
Seals?
Am I asking too many questions?

View attachment 318945
Click to expand...


Ribbed dually.

With that housing you may not have to retube. Solid makes inner c that’s fits this tube size and somewhat affordable.

Wide enough you can prob just cut off extra tube.

Seals all tube seals. Use them already in my front 60 as superior seal. Press into tube from outer. Gets tight where tubes press into center chunk. Cover od with rtv , then fill inside with good waterproof grease before inserting shaft.

Any other housing, just retube it from the get go.
 
Mac5005 said:
Ribbed dually.

With that housing you may not have to retube. Solid makes inner c that’s fits this tube size and somewhat affordable.

Wide enough you can prob just cut off extra tube.

Seals all tube seals. Use them already in my front 60 as superior seal. Press into tube from outer. Gets tight where tubes press into center chunk. Cover od with rtv , then fill inside with good waterproof grease before inserting shaft.

Any other housing, just retube it from the get go.
Click to expand...
I see people using super duty C’s which have tubes that are bigger than every 14 bolt I have. How do you make the big tubes fit into the housing?
I have a newer ribbed dually 14 bolt (I think I sold you one identical a while back??). The tubes do look long, but if I put super duty C’s on it they are too big to fit snug on the stock 14 bolt tubes.
 
Van-go said:
but if I put super duty C’s on it they are too big to fit snug on the stock 14 bolt tubes.
Click to expand...

The way I see it is there are 2 options;

One, you could cut the axle tube off and leave it inside the c. Then you could have the tube board to the size you need. When installing you would weld both tube and c to the axle tube.

Two, you save all that headache and buy these.......

Ultimate Dana 60 Inner Knuckle
 
Van-go said:
I see people using super duty C’s which have tubes that are bigger than every 14 bolt I have. How do you make the big tubes fit into the housing?
I have a newer ribbed dually 14 bolt (I think I sold you one identical a while back??). The tubes do look long, but if I put super duty C’s on it they are too big to fit snug on the stock 14 bolt tubes.
Click to expand...

To make the super duty stuff work, you need ball joint eliminators.

Skip this step use solid king pin inner C’s that fit the 14b dually rubbed housing.

The cost savings of the solid inner c’s and not needing Ball joint eliminators can be put into the Reid outer knuckles that work with king pins and unit bearings.

No good real solution to using super duty inner c’s without either matching slugs to make diameter correct or retubing the axle.

I’m using KP inner /outers, spindle, stubs and hubs, so I’m not 100% on using the Reid super kp outers with solid inner C’s but that’s how I theorize it.

That’s the whole reason I got that ribbed dually housing from you, so that the solid inner C’s go straight onto the tubes rather than a bunch of lathe work making the correct step up/ step down on large tube to get the diameters to play nice with each other.
 
Mac5005 said:
To make the super duty stuff work, you need ball joint eliminators.

Skip this step use solid king pin inner C’s that fit the 14b dually rubbed housing.

The cost savings of the solid inner c’s and not needing Ball joint eliminators can be put into the Reid outer knuckles that work with king pins and unit bearings.

No good real solution to using super duty inner c’s without either matching slugs to make diameter correct or retubing the axle.

I’m using KP inner /outers, spindle, stubs and hubs, so I’m not 100% on using the Reid super kp outers with solid inner C’s but that’s how I theorize it.

That’s the whole reason I got that ribbed dually housing from you, so that the solid inner C’s go straight onto the tubes rather than a bunch of lathe work making the correct step up/ step down on large tube to get the diameters to play nice with each other.
Click to expand...
Can you still go 40 spline with 1550 joints with these? If I read correctly you have to use regular KP stuff. Which I have some solid KP knuckles... just figured if I’m going 14 front, why not go all out.
 
Van-go said:
Can you still go 40 spline with 1550 joints with these? If I read correctly you have to use regular KP stuff. Which I have some solid KP knuckles... just figured if I’m going 14 front, why not go all out.
Click to expand...

I don't know if you can with Solid, but you can with Reid. The catch is that you have to buy the kingpin specific knuckles at $489 a piece that will allow the use of the unit bearing. When the factory SD knuckles are plenty strong, it seems the most cost effective solution would be to use the inner C's that @NCJeeplover posted with a set of BJ eliminators.
 
NCJeeplover said:
The way I see it is there are 2 options;

One, you could cut the axle tube off and leave it inside the c. Then you could have the tube board to the size you need. When installing you would weld both tube and c to the axle tube.

Two, you save all that headache and buy these.......

Ultimate Dana 60 Inner Knuckle
Click to expand...
I was also thinking of finding a tube from a 2wd f450 or f550 cause the tubes will be long enough to cut Where needed and press into the housing. I’d just have to have the housing bored out to press the 3.75in tube in. Or turn down the tube if there was enough meat on it.
 
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Van-go said:
I was also thinking of finding a tube from a 2wd f450 or f550 cause the tubes will be long enough to cut Where needed and press into the housing. I’d just have to have the housing bored out to press the 3.5in tube in. Or turn down the tube if there was enough meat on it.
Click to expand...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't DRW and C&C 14 bolts use 3.5" OD tubing? I'm basing this on the 14 bolt bible BillaVista.com-14-Bolt Bible Tech Article by BillaVista
 
The ribbed dually housing is 3.5” OD tubes. Not sure about c & c

I don’t think 1550 joints and shafts will fit into regular 60 KP knuckles. Pretty sure you have to use the larger super 60 size stuff.

I can’t say for sure bc I’m just using regular 60 1480 stuff.

There is a thread on hardline about doing such and get the Rockwell size Rcv bell in the ultimate KP Reid outer knuckle and 450 ub.

Never looked into doing the ultimate 14b front bc I don’t have the budget.

I was going for easier and cheap(er) option.

Pretty good success with ECGS axles and super joints in our wheeling group, no Real reason for me to personally go beyond.
 
To know how long the tube needs to be, you can measure from the inner side gears out. The center of the inner shaft yoke should be inline with the kingpins/balljoints.

I would cut the tubes as long as possible and take a measurement. That will tell you approx how much you should remove.

Going DSD will allow you a longer tube on the short side, since the 14b is offset to that side. I have heard of challenges when trying to go PSD and stay chevy shaft lengths.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
Currently looks like ARB or spool are the only options for 40 spline.

Basically the same options to go 35 spline as well.
Click to expand...
paradisePWoffrd said:
To know how long the tube needs to be, you can measure from the inner side gears out. The center of the inner shaft yoke should be inline with the kingpins/balljoints.

I would cut the tubes as long as possible and take a measurement. That will tell you approx how much you should remove.

Going DSD will allow you a longer tube on the short side, since the 14b is offset to that side. I have heard of challenges when trying to go PSD and stay chevy shaft lengths.
Click to expand...
That’s good to know. I appreciate it
 
NCJeeplover said:
The way I see it is there are 2 options;

One, you could cut the axle tube off and leave it inside the c. Then you could have the tube board to the size you need. When installing you would weld both tube and c to the axle tube.

Two, you save all that headache and buy these.......

Ultimate Dana 60 Inner Knuckle
Click to expand...

This would be the ticket since they should be for 3.5" tube size already. $200 is worth not having to figure out how to adapt 3.75 tube to 3.5 tube.


If you don't feel like messing with it at all you can buy steering 14 bolt housings with stock 05 up ends on it using stock shafts for ~$1500 but that kinda defeats the budget part to a certain extent.
 
Chris_Keziah said:
This would be the ticket since they should be for 3.5" tube size already. $200 is worth not having to figure out how to adapt 3.75 tube to 3.5 tube.


If you don't feel like messing with it at all you can buy steering 14 bolt housings with stock 05 up ends on it using stock shafts for ~$1500 but that kinda defeats the budget part to a certain extent.
Click to expand...
Do those people who make them use the C’s mentioned or use stock ones somehow?
I’d be curious to know how they use stock ones if they do.
 
Van-go said:
That looks so easy to make. I wanna know how lol
Click to expand...

It looks retubed. Probably took and knocked the stock 14 bolt tubes out and bored the housing for 3.75" tubes. Other ways to do it but that way you could prob save the stock 60 tubes.
 
Chris_Keziah said:
It looks retubed. Probably took and knocked the stock 14 bolt tubes out and bored the housing for 3.75" tubes. Other ways to do it but that way you could prob save the stock 60 tubes.
Click to expand...
I’d like to keep my 60 housing complete and find a beam axle from a 450 or 550 to use.
Probably get one cheaper than new 3.75 DOM
 
Chris_Keziah said:
you can buy steering 14 bolt housings with stock 05 up ends on it using stock shafts for ~$1500
Click to expand...

I believe busted knuckle will do this for similar cost as well. It would probably be even cheaper with a 14 bolt and inner c's to turn in as "cores" also.

Van-go said:
find a beam axle from a 450 or 550 to use.
Click to expand...

Be careful with the 450 and 550 stuff, the brakes are different. Might be hard to find a smaller brake package to fit a 17" wheel. I know my 450 will not fit a 17" wheel for sure....
 
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