4x4 Park Ideas - Thoughts?

Or, you find someone that already has the land and makes a ton of cash anyway. Then you can take them a well thought out business plan highlighting the tax incentives and showing how they turn their investment in land into a steady income untill they are willing to sell it for the original profit they bought it for. They get the added bonus of land management, and you could outlaw riding on portions of it that they will use for hunting. I think that 250k for 4 people working full time is over the top. You might end up with 2 people working part time and they might make 50k between then two. The place would probably only be feasibly open on the weekends all year and then maybe a few weeks a year for an extended trip or competition. I am lucky enough to get to ride on 260 acres north of wake forest and fish there too. No way it would be opened up to wheel on for others, but it is perk of where I work. But I am sure that there are people that would open up their land if the business plan was in place.
 
Down&Dirty said:
Or, you find someone that already has the land and makes a ton of cash anyway. Then you can take them a well thought out business plan highlighting the tax incentives and showing how they turn their investment in land into a steady income untill they are willing to sell it for the original profit they bought it for. They get the added bonus of land management, and you could outlaw riding on portions of it that they will use for hunting. I think that 250k for 4 people working full time is over the top. You might end up with 2 people working part time and they might make 50k between then two. The place would probably only be feasibly open on the weekends all year and then maybe a few weeks a year for an extended trip or competition. I am lucky enough to get to ride on 260 acres north of wake forest and fish there too. No way it would be opened up to wheel on for others, but it is perk of where I work. But I am sure that there are people that would open up their land if the business plan was in place.
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2 people part time may work on your idea but for the other idea about buying land it would probably be more. Also or people that own land, the idea of someone "distroying it" with trails, and tires marks everywhere is not a good idea. My Grandmother has 10K acres in South Texas and she laughed at me when I talked to her about exactly that, having people pay for access to wheel. And that was only on 500 of her 10,000+ acres, Most load owners dont like the idea unless they too are wheelers. I think this idea could work i all the cards all into place though
 
I can appriciate everyone's opinions, but if you are going to be negetive and you are not looking to be a part of this, then why leave a comment.

I am 26 years old, I have owned businesses, helped with projects like this, and accomplished a lot in the years that I have been on this earth. The only way that things like this ever get done are due to a persons dreams. I am not saying that it will make it, and I am not saying that it won't, but there are ways to get things done!

I am with uzi100 on this thing. If anybody else is, then pm one of us and lets get together and talk in a civil manner and really look into it. Once again, maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but I've some stocks that I can cash in and be a part of it!
 
This thread brings me back to my thinking of a few years ago. I had planned out the perfect "dream" complex. Of course most of the land would be devoted to the trail system, however it is hard to imagine that an unsubsidized 4x4 park would be profitabe/self-sustaining. To make up for this, a "moneymaker" would have to be included in the complex.
Firstly, camping. I would have a small campground (with limited facilities) 25-50 spots, some tent only, some campers. Affordable 5 or so a night for tent only, 10 to include facilities, 15 or so for campers. Also including a parking area, 5ish a day for tow rig and trailer.
Secondly, since the flat streach is no fun for 4x4s, a drag strip. This will be a larger income segment. There are as many if not more markets for the strip, plus if I could get at least one major race weekend per year it would almost cover yearly maintenance costs. Track days are very popular and it keeps the crazy folks (ones who actually go faster than a crawl) from hitting my Jeep when i drive too slow. My original plan also called for a dirt 1/2 mile oval, but that was when i was in New York where dirt ovals are big money.
Thirdly, everyone needs to fuel up before and after hitting the trails (both gas and grub) so it is time to build the mini-mart. Depending on location, this may even bring in some out of park buisness. Then if your at a motorsports complex, performance is always on your mind, so where better to have a performance/4x4 shop? Complete with (and you military folks should relate to this one) a hobbyshop/ do-it-yourself garage area. This would be a per/hour basis and give those of us that live in the "you can't work in your driveway" neighborhood folks a place to wrench.
Lastly, of course recovery would be offered both for the trails and the track. "I would be happy to tow you to the hobby shop, sell you the parts to fix your vehicle, and I'll even wrench on it with ya". Vehicle rental would be available also, Not only will this help get folks into bigger/better, it will also let one "try out" different configurations, also, the guy with the honda accord who thinks runnin off road might be fun can give it a try, fall in love with it, and poof a new enthusiast is born therefore helping to perpetuate and grow the sport.
If some of these points sound at all money driven, that is due to the fact that managing all this would have to be a full time job with full time employees. so if anyone has around 1.5 to 3 million laying around, just let me know and we can get started, lol.

Oh to dream

Thanks
Tony

Wow, this is a hot topic, 4 more posts just as I typed this one.
 
andysleds said:
I can appriciate everyone's opinions, but if you are going to be negetive and you are not looking to be a part of this, then why leave a comment.
I am 26 years old, I have owned businesses, helped with projects like this, and accomplished a lot in the years that I have been on this earth. The only way that things like this ever get done are due to a persons dreams. I am not saying that it will make it, and I am not saying that it won't, but there are ways to get things done!
I am with uzi100 on this thing. If anybody else is, then pm one of us and lets get together and talk in a civil manner and really look into it. Once again, maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but I've some stocks that I can cash in and be a part of it!
Click to expand...


Not sure how much stock you have but just the idea that you would sell off your stock or a non-profit makes me wonder. I am not saying it woudl not work either. Hell, I hope i does before i leave. I am saying, "The original idea would not." quote me on it. I have owned businesses too, the current one does very well and I will retire in a few years because of it. I know about these things too. I just turned 25 and am doing a similar venture in TX.

And personally, dont sell your stock to do something like this. This WILL NOT MAKE YOU RICH, unless you had about 1500 acres of mountains in downtown NEW YORK, L.A., CHICAGO, etc. Thoughs types of places have enough people to make this work. NOT NC
 
redjp said:
This thread brings me back to my thinking of a few years ago. I had planned out the perfect "dream" complex. Of course most of the land would be devoted to the trail system, however it is hard to imagine that an unsubsidized 4x4 park would be profitabe/self-sustaining. To make up for this, a "moneymaker" would have to be included in the complex.
Firstly, camping. I would have a small campground (with limited facilities) 25-50 spots, some tent only, some campers. Affordable 5 or so a night for tent only, 10 to include facilities, 15 or so for campers. Also including a parking area, 5ish a day for tow rig and trailer.
Secondly, since the flat streach is no fun for 4x4s, a drag strip. This will be a larger income segment. There are as many if not more markets for the strip, plus if I could get at least one major race weekend per year it would almost cover yearly maintenance costs. Track days are very popular and it keeps the crazy folks (ones who actually go faster than a crawl) from hitting my Jeep when i drive too slow. My original plan also called for a dirt 1/2 mile oval, but that was when i was in New York where dirt ovals are big money.
Thirdly, everyone needs to fuel up before and after hitting the trails (both gas and grub) so it is time to build the mini-mart. Depending on location, this may even bring in some out of park buisness. Then if your at a motorsports complex, performance is always on your mind, so where better to have a performance/4x4 shop? Complete with (and you military folks should relate to this one) a hobbyshop/ do-it-yourself garage area. This would be a per/hour basis and give those of us that live in the "you can't work in your driveway" neighborhood folks a place to wrench.
Lastly, of course recovery would be offered both for the trails and the track. "I would be happy to tow you to the hobby shop, sell you the parts to fix your vehicle, and I'll even wrench on it with ya". Vehicle rental would be available also, Not only will this help get folks into bigger/better, it will also let one "try out" different configurations, also, the guy with the honda accord who thinks runnin off road might be fun can give it a try, fall in love with it, and poof a new enthusiast is born therefore helping to perpetuate and grow the sport.
If some of these points sound at all money driven, that is due to the fact that managing all this would have to be a full time job with full time employees. so if anyone has around 1.5 to 3 million laying around, just let me know and we can get started, lol.
Oh to dream
Thanks
Tony
Wow, this is a hot topic, 4 more posts just as I typed this one.
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:D funny while reading I was think ok, about 1.5 to 3 million would do it and you typed exactly that.

LOOK< I totally agree that this would be awesome but until more people catch on to rockcrawling and 4wheeling it will not happen. In Texas, and Cali it woudl work, ONLY, because they already have so many wheelers and the sport is much bigger there. San Antonio has a monster truck show at the 80,000 plus seating Alamo Dome and it fills with wheelers. there are like 20,000 4x4 in the parking lot. Build a place like that outside san antonio and I would sell my stock too, Hell, I would not even tell anyone I would finance it on my own. Find me 20,000 4x4s in one parking lot in NC and I'm in
Well, just my 2 cents. dream dream dreammmm,
 
I was just trying to say that if I had to throw in some cash to get something like this started i would. In an earlier post someone said to get a 100 or so people together and go from there......well, make me the 1st of those 100 people. I understand that this wouldn't be a money making project to get started, but it would be fun. I think that there is enough interest there to look at it. What about some type of corporate sponsorship????
 
Diane said:
I have an idea, why don't you just shut the f**k up ?
Click to expand...

That's nice....do you kiss your mother with that mouth. LOL

:flipoff2:
 
Well I think it would be nice to have some other places to go besides Uwharrie and Tellico. Because for the every weekend wheeling Uwharrie is the only place close enough for me to go. It would be nice to have something else closer then 4 or 5 hours away. I am not a buisness man, but I think this could work on a small scale. There just simply are not enough people here to support a large purely offroad road park. You would need some other things mixed in there with it. Now what I want you guys to do is put your heads together and prove me wrong. Without a dream we have nothing. If this is your dream hold on to it and figure out how to make it happen.
 
You guys rock and have great ideas, keep them coming.

I am thinking about land that does not perk, dealership/corporate sponsors, yearly/lifetime memberships, lots of parking, tons of camping, mild to wild trails, daily fee per vehicle vs per person.

I was thinking ropes course, obstacle course and rock climbing walls thrown in for fun.

Think BIG! (Highly recommend the book entitled "Think Big" - I wish I would have read this book when I was just out of college back in 92)

Back in 1986 (when I was 16), I thought it would be sweet to have a race track near by to drive on and about 16 years later someone came up with www.virclub.com - That place is a ton of fun.

Lets keep up the good discussion and get a plan together.

uzj100
 
Let me throw some numbers in the air like other...

Not sure abou the Triangle area, but in the greater Charlotte area and upstate SC, there are track available in the $2500-$3500 /acre range for non-perk, non zoned (zoned RUD or lower), sites.

So lets start with a nice 200 acre site at $3500/acre
$700,000 needed
Lets clear cut it day one... if site type is AVERAGE old growth or mid-aged planted pine
$100,000 easily

Net investment
$600,000

200 "investors/club starters"

paying $3000 each in an organized business land trust

nets $600,000

Next we'll cover it under agricultural/non constructive clause use

Now taxes are all but eliminated

What are upkeep costs?

Trail prep yearly?

Hell worst case scenario, you better get bigger and badder equipment(vehicles) each year ;)

A few gates and signs and there isnt too much annual cost.

If this sounds at all like it comes from experince, I currently manage 3 such "hunting trusts" only our numbers are a little more elevated:
Average invstment of $25,000 each fewer members/acre
And annual dues of $1000

I know few would pay these numbers to wheel, but 3k one time and $250-$300/yr?
With 200 members thats 60K/year in operating funds...

With our hunt lands we have a certain number of mandatory work days each year for members with a "fine" for not meeting "quota"


FWIW, I expect to unveil a similar venture next year in upstate SC... if anyone wants some direction/detail help PM me....
 
ShyHiK5 said:
Let me throw some numbers in the air like other...
Not sure abou the Triangle area, but in the greater Charlotte area and upstate SC, there are track available in the $2500-$3500 /acre range for non-perk, non zoned (zoned RUD or lower), sites.
So lets start with a nice 200 acre site at $3500/acre
$700,000 needed
Lets clear cut it day one... if site type is AVERAGE old growth or mid-aged planted pine
$100,000 easily
Net investment
$600,000
200 "investors/club starters"
paying $3000 each in an organized business land trust
nets $600,000
Next we'll cover it under agricultural/non constructive clause use
Now taxes are all but eliminated
What are upkeep costs?
Trail prep yearly?
Hell worst case scenario, you better get bigger and badder equipment(vehicles) each year ;)
A few gates and signs and there isnt too much annual cost.
If this sounds at all like it comes from experince, I currently manage 3 such "hunting trusts" only our numbers are a little more elevated:
Average invstment of $25,000 each fewer members/acre
And annual dues of $1000
I know few would pay these numbers to wheel, but 3k one time and $250-$300/yr?
With 200 members thats 60K/year in operating funds...
With our hunt lands we have a certain number of mandatory work days each year for members with a "fine" for not meeting "quota"
FWIW, I expect to unveil a similar venture next year in upstate SC... if anyone wants some direction/detail help PM me....
Click to expand...


That sounds a lot more reasonable, though I still dont see 200 people doing it. The main reason

The whole point was to fine something closer to everyone. Why would someone travel the same distance to the areas you spoke about when they would be driving straight though URE.
 
Jeeper you may be confused some.
My current venture in Chesterfield county is backed by folks in that area, I was merely using it as an example that something similar could be done in Raleigh.

Some have even bought in at a double or triple share, with the intentions to sell shares like stock in the future...

None the less, it doesn't take as long to fill up 200 folks as you might think.
We handed out 1500 flyers on this campain and got all 200 in 6 months
 
ShyHiK5 said:
Jeeper you may be confused some.
My current venture in Chesterfield county is backed by folks in that area, I was merely using it as an example that something similar could be done in Raleigh.
Some have even bought in at a double or triple share, with the intentions to sell shares like stock in the future...
None the less, it doesn't take as long to fill up 200 folks as you might think.
We handed out 1500 flyers on this campain and got all 200 in 6 months
Click to expand...


Got yeah! ;) I thought you meant from people around here. So that is for hunting correct?

I wonder what people around here would pay that much for wheelin. Hell, some guys dont spend or have that much into there rigs. It could happen for wheelin but highly unlikely with thoughs kinds of numbers. I know hunters are a bit differnce. My Gma has a lot of land a leases it out and makes a killing.
 
The ideas that I like the most so far are:
the on site gas station, them thing make money on thier own
not for profit status
different trails-different rates
camping spots.


i'll go where ever it is, except east of raleigh, it's flat and boring

MF-that's what i get for searching and reading and then posting i forget his badboy was a year old
 
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