Another generator thread: Pad mount whole home or portable?

shawn said:
Fun fact: I've been on some jobsites lately that are 95% powered by HF Predator generators.
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I believe it.
I havent used one personally or ever tested one or ran it across an O-scope to look at wave forms etc. But all those gasoline "wheel barrow" generators are the same cheap crap.

There are a few exceptions. kohler, Cat and Generac all make 100% true made in USA models specifically for GSA and DOD bids. Those are nice. All 3. I prefer the CAT and Generac versions to the Kohler one for a few reasons..but even it is 5x the gen that any of the "regular" portables are. Of course 5x is just about the cost premium as well. But they are nice.
 
farmboy said:
Whole house is the only way to go. And I actually have an older (10 year old) kholer unit for propane that I can make you a deal on. Interested?
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I might be interested? PM me some info.

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Ron said:
But all those gasoline "wheel barrow" generators are the same cheap crap.
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They could replace them 3x/wk for all I know. But at that price, it probably still makes sense. If you buy a fancy one, it's just gonna get run over by a Lull.
 
Ron said:
It comes down to duration. Want power for a few hours? The predator will likely be fine. Want power for a few weeks? pad mounted is the only option. If you are a baller liquid cooled pad mounted is the only option.
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Why couldn't a portable run for a few weeks? As long as you kept fuel going to it.
 
I went thru this last night. Not legal, of course, but I back fed thru my welder plug. Switched off the main and put masking tape over it that said, do not turn on until generator is unhooked. Just in case something happened to me. I made a 4 wire extension cord from #8 wire years ago and still had it around. I covered the generator by flipping my lawn mower trailer over it to keep it dry. It has wooden sides on it to make it tall enough and is open on the back for breathing. I turned off all the breakers before powering up and just turned on the ones needed to run a few lights and my fridge and freezer. I was a happy camper with it being the first time I have tried it.

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jeepinmatt said:
Yes
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I don't buy that with the engine part. Pressure washers, mowers, water pumps etc... that all have similar single cylinder engines and last for decades. Why wouldn't the engine on the generator last?

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Stuntman Autoworks said:
I don't buy that with the engine part. Pressure washers, mowers, water pumps etc... that all have similar single cylinder engines and last for decades. Why wouldn't the engine on the generator last?

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First all those things you mentioned cost more and have better engines thanks most Chinese gens.
Second, how often do you start up your mower and run it for 5 straight days at max load wide open? A generator engine is a race engine not a long haul engine. It starts up, goes full throttle and cant vary rpm that in and of itself causes unique stress.

Finally, my point isn't about why it will fall or some secret design flaw. It's about approaching 2 decades in the industry, with 3 different manufacturers, and watching the rate of return and rate of failure. I'm not smart enough to tell you why, but I'm perceptive enough to tell you it will.
 
Got a mower with 2300 hrs on it and is going strong still, a decade old pressure washer used 4 or 5 hrs a day almost every day still going and my generator does have a throttle on it so I can crank it up let it warm up a couple minutes then full throttle so maybe I'm not picturing the type of generator your talking about.

Even still, I'd be willing to bet that if the oil was changed every 100 hrs or whatever the spec is that they would run for years and years continuously.

Just my experience with engines, equipment, vehicles etc... in general. Keep em maintained and you eliminate most issues most other people seem to have.
Ron said:
First all those things you mentioned cost more and have better engines thanks most Chinese gens.
Second, how often do you start up your mower and run it for 5 straight days at max load wide open? A generator engine is a race engine not a long haul engine. It starts up, goes full throttle and cant vary rpm that in and of itself causes unique stress.

Finally, my point isn't about why it will fall or some secret design flaw. It's about approaching 2 decades in the industry, with 3 different manufacturers, and watching the rate of return and rate of failure. I'm not smart enough to tell you why, but I'm perceptive enough to tell you it will.
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That pressure washer has the exact same engine as my generator and it cost less then the generator did so your first point about my examples costing more than a generator isn't correct.

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You win dude. They are the greatest. Rock on.
 
Ok awesome I was just giving examples so you knew where I was coming from so maybe you could help me understand your point of view.
Ron said:
You win dude. They are the greatest. Rock on.
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Ron said:
First all those things you mentioned cost more and have better engines thanks most Chinese gens.
Second, how often do you start up your mower and run it for 5 straight days at max load wide open? A generator engine is a race engine not a long haul engine. It starts up, goes full throttle and cant vary rpm that in and of itself causes unique stress.

Finally, my point isn't about why it will fall or some secret design flaw. It's about approaching 2 decades in the industry, with 3 different manufacturers, and watching the rate of return and rate of failure. I'm not smart enough to tell you why, but I'm perceptive enough to tell you it will.
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What is the expected/realistic lifespan of a pad mounted? What additional costs are involved? Starter batteries, oil changes?

We have a friend that's had one for probably 10 years. I don't know what maintenance is done on it but I know it fires up 8am every Saturday morning and runs for a few minutes. I guess that does a lot for longevity since their not jut sitting idle until needed.
 
Stuntman Autoworks said:
Ok awesome I was just giving examples so you knew where I was coming from so maybe you could help me understand your point of view.

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My point of view..in 18 years I've probably sold ..8-9,000 portables generators. We sold 700 last week. Your 1 data point is statistically insignificant. But every time I have this conversation I hear about my, or my brothers, or daddys gen that is 10 years old and still runs every day, never changed the oil, etc. That's why I started to not even respond. I use a portable, I'm cheap I get it.

The engine should account for about 50-55% of a generator cost. It should account for 75-80% of a pressure washer cost.

Use those and get back to me.

Then tell me about your amazing variable speed generator that maintains constant AC frequency at variable engine rpms.

I know I'm coming off as an ass, and I apologize. I worked 117 hours last week and this week is looking like another one. I've been on design teams, development teams, destructive test teams, I've been a service technician, a project manager, a sales rep, an application engineer, a sales manager, a branch manager and a VP of sales in the gen industry.

I don't have a dog in the fight. Use what you want. But fire your gen up, turn the power off and run your house, all on, non stop for 5 days. Around day 3 when the ass end scaters, the fuel tank cracks, the engine mount separates, the oil consumption passes the fuel consumption and you start having surges that blow up electronics. .then you can say I was right.
 
Ron said:
First all those things you mentioned cost more and have better engines thanks most Chinese gens.
Second, how often do you start up your mower and run it for 5 straight days at max load wide open? A generator engine is a race engine not a long haul engine. It starts up, goes full throttle and cant vary rpm that in and of itself causes unique stress.

Finally, my point isn't about why it will fall or some secret design flaw. It's about approaching 2 decades in the industry, with 3 different manufacturers, and watching the rate of return and rate of failure. I'm not smart enough to tell you why, but I'm perceptive enough to tell you it will.
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Ron, do you know what the common failure is?
I mean, what component usually fails and causes the return or service call? Just curious.

I have very little experience w/ them myself, as I have very rarely needed to use for personal use and never been around during a failure. Only issue I've personally had is w/ a shitty carb that's gummed up from sitting, which of course is a typical user failure. So I'm just curious what to look out for.
 
LBarr2002 said:
What is the expected/realistic lifespan of a pad mounted? What additional costs are involved? Starter batteries, oil changes?

We have a friend that's had one for probably 10 years. I don't know what maintenance is done on it but I know it fires up 8am every Saturday morning and runs for a few minutes. I guess that does a lot for longevity since their not jut sitting idle until needed.
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10 years is the design constraint for resi models. Some last much longer, some won't make it that long.

Manufacturer recommended battery life is 2 years. But like your car some better some worse. Most use a group 27 car battery. Recommended oil change interval annually.

They will auto exercise weekly. That's adjustable but thats the standard. That circulates oil to prevent dry starts, recharges batteries, ( even though there is a constant trickle charger that helps as well) and exercises everything. Really should operate them near full load for 2-3 hours annually to make sure condensate is boiled out of the varnish.
 
Ron said:
My point of view..in 18 years I've probably sold ..8-9,000 portables generators. We sold 700 last week. Your 1 data point is statistically insignificant. But every time I have this conversation I hear about my, or my brothers, or daddys gen that is 10 years old and still runs every day, never changed the oil, etc. That's why I started to not even respond. I use a portable, I'm cheap I get it.

The engine should account for about 50-55% of a generator cost. It should account for 75-80% of a pressure washer cost.

Use those and get back to me.

Then tell me about your amazing variable speed generator that maintains constant AC frequency at variable engine rpms.

I know I'm coming off as an ass, and I apologize. I worked 117 hours last week and this week is looking like another one. I've been on design teams, development teams, destructive test teams, I've been a service technician, a project manager, a sales rep, an application engineer, a sales manager, a branch manager and a VP of sales in the gen industry.

I don't have a dog in the fight. Use what you want. But fire your gen up, turn the power off and run your house, all on, non stop for 5 days. Around day 3 when the ass end scaters, the fuel tank cracks, the engine mount separates, the oil consumption passes the fuel consumption and you start having surges that blow up electronics. .then you can say I was right.
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I didn't say my generator was variable speed that went up and down with demand. I said it had a throttle, I can start it let it idle and warm up then up the throttle to the full speed position then load the generator with whatever I might be hooking to it.

Trying not to come off as an ass either but this generator ran for a week straight during fran and several other days in a row during other hurricanes and just ran 2 days in a row this weekend. So maybe I'm seeing a nicer built unit that I have and I just didn't understand that an engine would just blow after a few days of running. Or maybe I got lucky with one that's just staying together for some odd reason.

Either way I see where your coming from now, so are there any portable generators that are actually made well? There's bound to be nice ones out there that could power a remote construction area for days then be taken home for backup power and be used for many years. Or have they all turned into junk that will only last for a week of cumulative run time?

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Sorry man. Fatigue setting in.

Yes there are good ones out there. Like I said 3 different manufacturers make DOD and GSA approved models that would probably be good for...1,000 full load hours design. Maybe more. But you wll pay for those. They aren't $0.10/watt units.
 
Ron said:
Sorry man. Fatigue setting in.

Yes there are good ones out there. Like I said 3 different manufacturers make DOD and GSA approved models that would probably be good for...1,000 full load hours design. Maybe more. But you wll pay for those. They aren't $0.10/watt units.
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DOD, department of Defense?
GSA??
And no need to apologize


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Stuntman Autoworks said:
DOD, department of Defense?
GSA??
And no need to apologize


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Dept of Defense.

GSA = General Services Admin. That's the Fed agency that's basically in charge of federal purchases. GSA has a list of "preferred" vendors that get quick approval for Fed agencies to buy stuff from.

Quick tip to anyone in a small business... being GSA certified is a very worthwhile endeavor.
 
Somehow I missed that post through the day or forgot that it had models listed.

Thanks.


And the reason I'm asking and trying to learn a little is because I would like to get a larger gen for a couple of reasons but it still needs to be portable.

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RatLabGuy said:
Dept of Defense.

GSA = General Services Admin. That's the Fed agency that's basically in charge of federal purchases. GSA has a list of "preferred" vendors that get quick approval for Fed agencies to buy stuff from.

Quick tip to anyone in a small business... being GSA certified is a very worthwhile endeavor.
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That's good info I had never heard of GSA.

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