Another generator thread: Pad mount whole home or portable?

LBarr2002

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Location
SC
My wife wants a generator. I've been putting it off for years, we've never really been inconvenienced by an outage (been in the house for 10 years), but it would ease her storm anxiety so I guess it's time. Question is, how to decide between a whole home dedicated unit or a portable?

House is 2,400 sq. ft. Full basement, half garage half man cave/play room/guest room. Single HVAC, not sure on size off the top of my head. Heat is a dual mode system where it can run heat pump or propane. Gas log fireplace, gas stovetop, gas on demand water heater. No direct gas line, all fed from large propane tank. We're on a well. Plumbing in basement below grade so septic system has a lift pump to drain field.

200 amp service. Sub panel (50 amp) in garage that feeds welder and septic. It would be easy to plug generator in at welder socket and backfeed with generator sitting just outside garage doors.

I only remember the power being off more than an hour once since we've been here, and that was during the night, so like I said never been inconvenienced. My parents are a couple hundred yards away, on a different circuit, and their power goes off if a squirrel sneezes on the line and has been off for days at a time.

Whole home:
Pros
-always ready
-run everything
-no concerns about fuel storage unless we run out of propane

Cons:
-$$$
-only helps me, where if we're good I could take the portable next door.

Portable:
Pros
-cheaper

Cons
-inconvenient
-fuel storage
-probably can't run full house at same time

If I go portable, I'm thinking predator 9K and I probably wouldn't be much over $1k for gen and setup.

So, what would you do?
 
You are also going to need a switch over panel to be legal. So your generator doesn’t back feed the power lines. I’d do it even if you don’t care about legal just to protect the lineman from getting shocked by a line that should be dead.

I also think there are portable generators out there now that are dual fuel (propane and gas) but more expensive than a harbor freight one.

If you plan on using a generator a lot if you get a portable one I’d pick up some spare brushes. We use a portable one at work and have it to hook up to the house. Trust me it sucked when the brushes went out and it was 15 degrees with no power.


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Loganwayne said:
You are also going to need a switch over panel to be legal.
Click to expand...


Technically, to be "legal" his generator will ALSO have to be sized to handle the entire load of what's on the panel (AND sub-panel) if it's going the 100% legal permit/inspection route

Unless SC isn't following the same code that NC now follows

Any permanent pad mounted generator now has to be sized to handle the entire load. I.E. the power goes off while you are at work, and you're not able to tell the wife "honey, switch off the breaker for AC, clothes dryer, welder...etc so the genny doesn't have to try and power them", nope....can't do that now. If this is TRULY legit, and getting inspected, you're looking at a 20kw unit.
 
LBarr2002 said:
My wife wants a generator.
....
So, what would you do?
Click to expand...
Ask your wife what she wants :D

I have a similar situation in that I am on Duke energy, and my parents are a mile down the road on Rutherford Electric. Neither of us lose power often, and the odds of both of us being without power for an extended period is pretty low. If it does happen that we are both without power for an extended period, it will be in a survival mode, not comfort mode, so a portable to power the necessities is all I need.
 
Just typing that and rereading it has me leaning more towards portable. I just can't see the kind of investment of a whole home generator being worth it when we've never had an issue. Then again this is definitely a "you don't need it until you do" kind of situation and if we were out for days over the winter with an ice storm or something I'd be in trouble ;).

I forgot to mention we have 2 small kids, which adds to the wife's stress.
 
LBarr2002 said:
I forgot to mention we have 2 small kids, which adds to the wife's stress.
Click to expand...

Remind her that kids survived without electricity in their homes prior to 1925 quite well :huggy:


Oh, and then duck
 
Loganwayne said:
You are also going to need a switch over panel to be legal.
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Click to expand...

Yeah, and that takes away some of the convenience of the portable. My meter and main panel are on the opposite end of the house from the garage and welder sub panel. If I had to drag a portable around to the other side of the house to connect that would suck.

I can see this scenario...
Power goes out, sit around for an hour saying it'll come back on. Decide to go mess with generator, drag out, fuel up, connect, and hey the powers back on...
 
LBarr2002 said:
Yeah, and that takes away some of the convenience of the portable. My meter and main panel are on the opposite end of the house from the garage and welder sub panel. If I had to drag a portable around to the other side of the house to connect that would suck.

I can see this scenario...
Power goes out, sit around for an hour saying it'll come back on. Decide to go mess with generator, drag out, fuel up, connect, and hey the powers back on...
Click to expand...

You can install a wire underground to where you want the generator to be at and connect it to the panel. That’s near where you store the generator.

How else where you planning on powering the house using extension cords? Or plugging the generator to an outlet?


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Loganwayne said:
You can install a wire underground to where you want the generator to be at and connect it to the panel. That’s near where you store the generator.

How else where you planning on powering the house using extension cords? Or plugging the generator to an outlet?


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Click to expand...

Backfeed at welder, but I know that's not the right way to do it.

I guess I could keep gen in well pump house (which means building a nicer pump house, which is on the list of things to do). Well is probably 25ft from the service entrance.
 
LBarr2002 said:
So what you're saying is dig a well with a bucket on rope, and build an outhouse. Got it.:D
Click to expand...

No silly....tell the kids to grab a pitcher and head down to the spring house and collect the water like maw maw use too :huggy:
 
LBarr2002 said:
Just typing that and rereading it has me leaning more towards portable. I just can't see the kind of investment of a whole home generator being worth it when we've never had an issue. Then again this is definitely a "you don't need it until you do" kind of situation and if we were out for days over the winter with an ice storm or something I'd be in trouble ;).

I forgot to mention we have 2 small kids, which adds to the wife's stress.
Click to expand...
Winter is best case scenario. Add a fireplace if you don't have it. Set the freezer stuff outside. Cook and heat with the fire. Enjoy the family time.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Winter is best case scenario. Add a fireplace if you don't have it. Set the freezer stuff outside. Cook and heat with the fire. Enjoy the family time.
Click to expand...
We have gas logs, but the blower wouldn't run so I dont know how much help they would be. Gas water heater doesnt help when the well water doesn't flow....
 
CasterTroy said:
Technically, to be "legal" his generator will ALSO have to be sized to handle the entire load of what's on the panel (AND sub-panel) if it's going the 100% legal permit/inspection route

Unless SC isn't following the same code that NC now follows

Any permanent pad mounted generator now has to be sized to handle the entire load. I.E. the power goes off while you are at work, and you're not able to tell the wife "honey, switch off the breaker for AC, clothes dryer, welder...etc so the genny doesn't have to try and power them", nope....can't do that now. If this is TRULY legit, and getting inspected, you're looking at a 20kw unit.
Click to expand...
That's only true if you don't use a transfer switch and a sub-panel for things that are on the genny power. E.g. if you want he wiring gto be easy and it just powers the whole box.
The alternative, and more common thing to do, is to have an electrician (...because you're doing it by code, which requires a permit, which requires a licensed guy...) split off the circuits that are on the "backed up" list from those that are not. Those then go in a sub-panel that is powered by the genny while the rest of the house is not.
Doing it this way you can easily get by w/ a 10kW etc.

... but IMO once you're going through the trouble of doing all of that, the difference between a 10k and 20k genset is not substantial.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Winter is best case scenario. Add a fireplace if you don't have it. Set the freezer stuff outside. Cook and heat with the fire. Enjoy the family time.
Click to expand...
Bingo. Hardest part is just keeping the kiddos occupied. We keep old school board games on hand just for this. My son, even as a teenager, still loves Legos and will build stuff for hours on end anyway.
 
We are doing whole house 22kw... lots of lines (and trees) between us and main lines/substation, so higher chance for long outages than where we have lived before.

Plus, we plan to do some travelling, so any several hour outage has potential to ruin a fridge and deep freezer full of food, which would be expensive to replace.

What I'd like, and can't find, is some sort of interval timer to control an autostart generator so it only runs enough to keep fridge and freezer cold, not run 24/7. Or better, monitor fridge/freezer temps, and kick in as needed. Should be easy, with arduino, tied into generator control panel voltage sense.

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RatLabGuy said:
That's only true if you don't use a transfer switch and a sub-panel for things that are on the genny power. E.g. if you want he wiring gto be easy and it just powers the whole box.
The alternative, and more common thing to do, is to have an electrician (...because you're doing it by code, which requires a permit, which requires a licensed guy...) split off the circuits that are on the "backed up" list from those that are not. Those then go in a sub-panel that is powered by the genny while the rest of the house is not.
Doing it this way you can easily get by w/ a 10kW etc.

... but IMO once you're going through the trouble of doing all of that, the difference between a 10k and 20k genset is not substantial.
Click to expand...
I looked into that, and talked to electrican....by the time we did the separation, labor would be more than going to the 22k gen

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Last edited:
LBarr2002 said:
We have gas logs, but the blower wouldn't run so I dont know how much help they would be. Gas water heater doesnt help when the well water doesn't flow....
Click to expand...
I said "fireplace" not "gas logs" :flipoff2:
 
I asked myself this same question over a year ago, and the price finally dictated my choice (well the wife dictated that we were not paying that price :D). I went portable. It is a pain wheeling that sucker out in the rain, but for he price, I can manage for now. Here is the biggest con, if I am not home, my wife doesn't feel confident enough to set it up, if we had the big fixed one, that would not be an issue.
 
Whole house is the only way to go. And I actually have an older (10 year old) kholer unit for propane that I can make you a deal on. Interested?
 
CasterTroy said:
Use to be that way. New code will not allow that any more.
Click to expand...

Not exactly.
Code only requires sizinfg for 100% of the connected load IF using an AUTOMATIC transfer switch. Manual transfer switch is still fine.
Also code allows selective AUTOMATIC load shedding and using an undersized generator.

I'm buried and cant spend as much time as Id like, but Ill be glad to expand and prov ide all the reference sections later if you'd like.


The big question is what is your budget and how important to you is it. For ~$6k you can whole house auto a 22kW installed.
To do a portable anywhere close to right and obtain the portable you will be in the $1,200 range. If you already own the portable that can change the cost dynamics.

It comes down to duration. Want power for a few hours? The predator will likely be fine. Want power for a few weeks? pad mounted is the only option. If you are a baller liquid cooled pad mounted is the only option.
 
Ron said:
I'm buried and cant spend as much time as Id like, but Ill be glad to expand and prov ide all the reference sections later if you'd like.
Click to expand...

When you get time....I would appreciate that. You've got my email. I'm battling a code official here that is all about how HE is interpreting this.
 
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