Beast Inc Sneak Peak

jrraw23 said:
Yea I might end up swappin on a diff set of tires for when I drive on the road and get a selectable hub for one side but otherwise I'll just do tha dang thang I guess
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Let us all know when you decide to "do the dang thang" then, and please put the selectable hub on the LEFT side, so when you hit the brakes it snatches that Jeep thing into the ditch on the side of the road, and not into oncoming traffic where my wife may be driving...

For the record, my DE full-hydro drives pretty well on the road (up to the 50 or so I had it), it's just very sensitive because the orbital was spec'd to have less than 3 turns lock to lock with a 10" ram. (9.7 cu in. orbital, 2.5" bore x 1.5" shaft ram)

The pinion brake was a little scary at speed though, I wound up taking almost all the pressure off it by almost completely shutting the line lock, letting the front wheel brakes do most of the work.. I did test it with some hard stops first, however.
 
jrraw23 said:
Purpose? To drive it as a DD to campus almost everyday next semester, cause thats how I roll :driver:
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With your level of design, fabrication, and judgement "abilities" that thing has no business being anywhere near a public road, much less a high traffic area like NCSU. :shaking:

Have fun with it off-road, but keep that thing the fuck off the street.
 
ok other than the good point about the selectable hub on one side thing by Rich (duh, lol my bad)

Come on guys, theres no reason why I cant use the Jeep to putt around town in. I never plan on taking it over 45mph ever anyway.

I want to make a reasonable discussion here before we start jumping into calling me an idiot like usual (which I deserve most of the time :shaking: ) but I'm gonna list you guys reasons why I shouldn't drive it on the road with my rebuttal's then take those reasons and try to argue back in a clear consice manner so we can come to some sort of comprimise. Driving it on the road is definitly something I want to do, so Lets work together to come up with a solution to make it reasonable.

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Full Hydro point - I know lots of people that have run full hydro on the street why can't I?

Pinion Brake Argument - to be honest I have no real experience with so I can't make any assumptions about them yet.

Rich - As far as the pinion brakes what do you mean when you say they got scary? Like they didn't hardly do anything or they stopped it so quickly it was hard to control?

My questionable Fab skills - OK, the only thing I can say against this is I will have it at the BDB ride this saturday anyone is free to look at it and make suggestions as to how I should modify something to make it safer I dont really know any other way to discuss that point other then seeing it first hand

My questionable Driving Ability - Sorry but I will just have to say that assumption in general is wrong

I have never gotten into a wreck or Gotten any kind of Driving Citation

Not only that but I have worked at a boat place for the last 5 summers spending alot of time hauling around boats up to 32ft, and here recently quite literally everytime I go from Raliegh to Mooresville I tow my trailer with some type of load, I have completly rebuilt the trailer myself and know what happens when you load it wrong or have faulty parts. I believe my towing abilities are pretty fair.

Granted I have had a good bit of bad stuff happen to me, but I look at them as learning experiences and they havn't happened to me again since, and not a single one of the incidents was due to my driving faults it was due to some type of mechanical failure

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So Reasons why I cant drive it on the road, go.
 
jrraw23 said:
ok other than the good point about the selectable hub on one side thing by Rich (duh, lol my bad)

Come on guys, theres no reason why I cant use the Jeep to putt around town in. I never plan on taking it over 45mph ever anyway.

I want to make a reasonable discussion here before we start jumping into calling me an idiot like usual (which I deserve most of the time :shaking: ) but I'm gonna list you guys reasons why I shouldn't drive it on the road with my rebuttal's then take those reasons and try to argue back in a clear conscience manner so we can come to some sort of comprimise. Driving it on the road is definitly something I want to do, so Lets work together to come up with a solution to make it reasonable.



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Full Hydro point - I know lots of people that have run full hydro on the street why can't I?

Pinion Brake Argument - to be honest I have no real experience with so I can't make any assumptions about them yet.

Rich - As far as the pinion brakes what do you mean when you say they got scary? Like they didn't hardly do anything or they stopped it so quickly it was hard to control?

My questionable Fab skills - OK, the only thing I can say against this is I will have it at the BDB ride this saturday anyone is free to look at it and make suggestions as to how I should modify something to make it safer I dont really know any other way to discuss that point other then seeing it first hand

My questionable Driving Ability - Sorry but I will just have to say that assumption in general is wrong

I have never gotten into a wreck or Gotten any kind of Driving Citation

Not only that but I have worked at a boat place for the last 5 summers spending alot of time hauling around boats up to 32ft, and here recently quite literally everytime I go from Raliegh to Mooresville I tow my trailer with some type of load, I have completly rebuilt the trailer myself and know what happens when you load it wrong or have faulty parts. I believe my towing abilities are pretty fair.

Granted I have had a good bit of bad stuff happen to me, but I look at them as learning experiences and they havn't happened to me again since, and not a single one of the incidents was due to my driving faults it was due to some type of mechanical failure

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So Reasons why I cant drive it on the road, go.
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Ok, Fine.


Hydro: The only hydro that has any business even being near a road is a high quality system with a matched load reactive orbital valve, balanced cylinder with a pump made to maintain the optimal flow rate and line pressure, not to mention a high volume reservoir and adequate cooling and of course proper steering geometry. This is not a cheap setup by any means, and from what I've seen of your previous work, I HIGHLY doubt that's what you have on that Jeep.

Pinion Brakes: They are very easy to lock up and are very prone to fading from prolonged driving at any kind of speed because they are not capable of dissipating the amount of energy being put through them aka heat. Not to mention you are asking for the rotors pads and caliper to handle rotational speeds upwards of 6x what they should see and are really designed for.

Fab work: Using pipe. I'm sorry but that opens up all kinds of questions in my mind about your work, and concerns me for your safety and anyone who might be riding with you.

Driving ability: There is driving "ability" and then there is handling a vehicle such as then one you have, that will have handling characteristics unlike anything you have ever street driven.

Also I never questioned your driving ability, but I do question your judgment, after seen threads on here about you taco'ing a 10" drop hitch amongst other things, and running a trailer with no brakes, or running that same Jeep in this thread with practically no brakes at DPG. I'm sorry but these kind of incidents make one question you ability to make sound judgments especially when other peoples safety is involved. I don't give a shit what you do to yourself because of your own poor decision making abilities, but I do give a shit if you hurt someone, when it could have been prevented, especially when people are telling you what a bad idea something is, but you try to persist with it anyways.

So again, in summation, keep that thing the hell off of any public road, because if something does happen, and someone gets hurt, it will put every single one of us who enjoy off-road driving and vehicle modification under even more scrutiny than we already are in the public eye.
 
madcowdungbeetle said:
Ok, Fine.


Hydro: The only hydro that has any business even being near a road is a high quality system with a matched load reactive orbital valve, balanced cylinder with a pump made to maintain the optimal flow rate and line pressure, not to mention a high volume reservoir and adequate cooling and of course proper steering geometry. This is not a cheap setup by any means, and from what I've seen of your previous work, I HIGHLY doubt that's what you have on that Jeep.

Pinion Brakes: They are very easy to lock up and are very prone to fading from prolonged driving at any kind of speed because they are not capable of dissipating the amount of energy being put through them aka heat. Not to mention you are asking for the rotors pads and caliper to handle rotational speeds upwards of 6x what they should see and are really designed for.

Fab work: Using pipe. I'm sorry but that opens up all kinds of questions in my mind about your work, and concerns me for your safety and anyone who might be riding with you.

Driving ability: There is driving "ability" and then there is handling a vehicle such as then one you have, that will have handling characteristics unlike anything you have ever street driven.

Also I never questioned your driving ability, but I do question your judgment, after seen threads on here about you taco'ing a 10" drop hitch amongst other things, and running a trailer with no brakes, or running that same Jeep in this thread with practically no brakes at DPG. I'm sorry but these kind of incidents make one question you ability to make sound judgments especially when other peoples safety is involved. I don't give a shit what you do to yourself because of your own poor decision making abilities, but I do give a shit if you hurt someone, when it could have been prevented, especially when people are telling you what a bad idea something is, but you try to persist with it anyways.

So again, in summation, keep that thing the hell off of any public road, because if something does happen, and someone gets hurt, it will put every single one of us who enjoy off-road driving and vehicle modification under even more scrutiny than we already are in the public eye.
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Aight,

As far as the hydro part I know several people that run hydro on the road so I'm not seeing any problem there

The pinion brakes, well I'll just have to get em on there and see, if its a problem then I might have to do wheel brakes

If anyone has tried running pinion brakes on the road for a prolonged time before feel free to chime in

Pipe, well, get over it, lol. From my experience the majority of people use pipe on there junk, yes tube is stronger, but pipe seems to work fine for everyone else so . . . . .

And then the comments about me doin stupid stuff, well, the drop hitch thing was dumb I agree but once again I wasnt the one who ran into something I got ran into by someone else

The no brakes at DPG thing, ok, that was probably not the best idea i agree, havn't done it again since



IDK, I usually tend to learn stuff the hard way, but thats why you guys are here, tell me how to do it the right way and I'll do what I can to get it right the first time.
 
Love the tires, just wish they were like 56" tall though.

I'm hydro assist and on the street with rockwells, 60mph is about tops with the low gearing and my tired engine at this point. I've driven backhoes on the street so I'm guesing that would be how full hydro would be on the street, sorta squirrely. I had to high idle my engine so there's no lag in the parking lots.
 
so are you building a DD? Or a wheeler?

Im asking the question why you actually want another truck to drive on the road. Dont you already have 2 that are far too large anyway? If you like driving big trucks, fine...to each his own. Drive the Chevy around. Why do you want to drive the jeep so bad? Its not really built for the road, so why?

No one around here really is going to care anyway that you have something like that. You might scare a few sorority girls...but they arent gonna want to hop in for a ride, lol.

I mean the jeep will work offroad im sure. You have finally built something that will be a decent wheeler (in theory...if you can drive it is another thing :) ) so why would you want to "dumb it down" for the road? Im just not following you here.
 
aaaaand here we go for 3 more pages where people tell ricky what a bad idea things are, give solid reasoning, and he argues/rationalizes back.:flipoff2:
 
I have a friend that learns things the hard way. he is currently taking lesson in ICU.

I would hate for someone else to have to learn your lessons in the same place!

Please dont drive that on the road.

By the way, The North Carolina General Assembly has set no standard as to what defines a vehicle "safe for public use". They have left it up to officer discresion. If you are having this hard of a time convincing 4x4 enthusiast that your compilation of parts its safe, imagine the hell your going to get from any officer that may pull you over.

Also, i have not looked into it, but i feel pretty sure that not having your steering mechanically connected from steering wheel all the way down violates a federal statute. thats why Daimler Chrysler's "fly by wire" joystick design never got approved for american markets.

also.....fabrication ability called into question....your leaf springs stick out further than your stinger...so does your bumper...kinda makes your stinger useless, cool looking, but useless.

and this is trivial....but How does that equate to a z71?
 
Your steering will be fine on the streets it is a non load reactive with an open center (if you want return to center use a damn box other wise a load reactive unit with a closed center will break your hands with big tires on the trail thats why we don't use them in heavy equipment with agg. tires:rolleyes: liability:flipoff2:) you have a balanced cylinder so you have the same turning speed in each direction:huggy: & for those of you who don't have a balanced cylinder try an orifice fitting in the clevis end of the cylinder:beer:
 
practice with the hydro steering and you can probably get used to it. as for the brakes ive driven both on the highway. i had wheel brakes on rockwells and i have pinion brakes on rockwells. i do not get above 30mph with my pinion brakes they are just too grabby and will lock up the tires very easily. go with wheel disk brakes, get with sswaters i am sure he can set you up with safe and reliable wheel disk brakes.
 
Jeff B said:
Your steering will be fine on the streets it is a non load reactive with an open center (if you want return to center use a damn box other wise a load reactive unit with a closed center will break your hands with big tires on the trail thats why we don't use them in heavy equipment with agg. tires:rolleyes: liability:flipoff2:)
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Wouldn't a closed center orbital dead-head your pump?

I'm using a load reactive open center orbital, and a one-way check valve in the pressure line.. no issues whatsoever hitting things at speed. Ask Yager.. :lol:
 
If you are having this hard of a time convincing 4x4 enthusiast that your compilation of parts its safe, imagine the hell your going to get from any officer that may pull you over.
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yep. ESPECIALLY ncsu campus police, who are notoriously more anal than rpd/shp.

Also, i have not looked into it, but i feel pretty sure that not having your steering mechanically connected from steering wheel all the way down violates a federal statute. thats why Daimler Chrysler's "fly by wire" joystick design never got approved for american markets.
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i'm pretty sure there are a few cars in the u.s. now using wire controlled electric power steering racks. not to mention a lot of big trucks, which have been using full hydro for years.

imo, full hydro isn't really any different than a mechanical system from a safety standpoint. it's all about how well designed/safe it is. a 1/2 ton truck with huge tires and the stock 100,000 mile drag link and tre's is no better than the truck with full hydro and mismatched/cheap components.
 
Ricky, everytime something cool is happening I got other stuff going on, this weekend, helping with friends late model at lowes and carolina dirttracks, family yardsale, kids to play practice and I got to go to Savannah for school. One of these days when I finally get a top back on it I'll dig that mudhole out right. But, if you break some shafts this weekend - here they is -
370470c2a6357e20.jpg
- you know where I live and your credit is good.
 
"Granted I have had a good bit of bad stuff happen to me, but I look at them as learning experiences and they havn't happened to me again since, and not a single one of the incidents was due to my driving faults it was due to some type of mechanical failure"

Last 5 words pretty much sum up what I have seen of your work. Not trying to bust on you, but please don't put that thing on the streets.
 
jrraw23 said:
Aight,
As far as the hydro part I know several people that run hydro on the road so I'm not seeing any problem there
The pinion brakes, well I'll just have to get em on there and see, if its a problem then I might have to do wheel brakes
If anyone has tried running pinion brakes on the road for a prolonged time before feel free to chime in
Pipe, well, get over it, lol. From my experience the majority of people use pipe on there junk, yes tube is stronger, but pipe seems to work fine for everyone else so . . . . .
And then the comments about me doin stupid stuff, well, the drop hitch thing was dumb I agree but once again I wasnt the one who ran into something I got ran into by someone else
The no brakes at DPG thing, ok, that was probably not the best idea i agree, havn't done it again since
IDK, I usually tend to learn stuff the hard way, but thats why you guys are here, tell me how to do it the right way and I'll do what I can to get it right the first time.
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Ok lets try this again since reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit...

You are an idiot, who is putting people in danger because of your own ego, and nothing you build has any business being on a public road.
 
OK So from the responses I'm seeing here Hydro is fine (like I thought) the pinion brakes are the only real item in question here. Unless you wanna say that my fab work sucks but unless you see my junk firsthand and point out the areas that need improvement I'm not holding any credit in anyone making that assumption.

I just want to be able to putt around town in my Rig to show it off is what this all boils down too. Its actually almost as important to me to be able to do that rather than wheel (relax I said almost) :lol: but nonetheless very Important to me in whatever I build to be able to drive around in it.

And Scott - I def will be calling you when I break some Rockwell junk :driver: plus I also have some cash for you from the AAM axle my friend used the diff for parts, I need to get it to you eventually, :shaking:
 
first of all, instead of bustin' his ass so much on this, how about some suggestions on how to get that thing on the streets safely, since you know he's gonna anyway.

and ricky, listen to the fellas.

matter of fact, listen to scott. get with him and you 2 figure out how to accomplish your goal.

let me put it in terms you'll like: you can't tame a beast!

seriously dude, it's either a mild but capable trail rig that is street safe/worthy, or a badass on the trail that needs a trailer.

i guess you can't have your cake and eat it too. so it comes down to who you want to impress, nc4x4 or ncsu sorostitutes.

i'm not bustin on you at all...i totally admire your creative drive and enthusiasm. you go all out. just don't let your desire for "pushing the envelope" land you in front of a jury and a family mourning a loss. crazier shit has happened in safer, more controlled environments.
 
I hear ya man, I mean I'm def willing to listen to advice and It seems like braking is the only real issue that needs to be dealt with, which I'm willing to work on, granted not right now as I have no $$, lol. But within a few months or so I'll get it done then I'll be cruisin Impressin all the ncsu sorostitues . . er . . nc4x4ians :lol:
 
tires were also an issue. i dont know the limitations of the sidewall, or how the tread section is going to hold up under road use. if its locked, its going to chunk like hell, and that will make them illegal. I would be worried about how much traction an aggricultural tire will be able to have on pavement, especially wet pavement or in turns (and being locked, if you are locked).

This truck is going to have some wierd characteristics. Please be ready to handle them!

Street tires
atleast one axke with hub brakes
and a suitable steering system.

please do not shortcut or skimp out on steering. have a professional look over your system. and by professional i mean some one who does hydro for a living, not one of your friends who runs it on their own rig and hasnt killed anyone YET.
 
I don't know what kind of steering you have, but full hydro differs GREATLY depending on the parts you use. You may wind up with 2 turns lock to lock or 10, either way road driving will suck.

So don't go thinking full hydro is no problem because other people can drive theirs on the road. It seems you parents have money, and will be a prime target if you run over some fag at ncsu who's father is a lawyer.
 
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