Calling on Plumbers/well pump pros please !!!!! thank you

[marty79]

Hello to everyone!! Hope all are well and readying up for a new season of fun!! I really need some legit advise on this new house we moved into with the well pump/pressure tank/power consumption problem we are having so bare with me as I try and explain it in full details, Thank You very much for listening!!
Ok we are in a 3bd 2ba 1400sq ft roughly doublewide. 2 showers, 3sinks, washer, one outdoor spicket, and 2 toilets. Only me, wife and daughter and PLEASE understand first that I'm a huge power nazi!!
The Well pump turns on like all the time...flush a toilet, goes on>>wash hands goes on>>etc...sometimes cuts off within a min or two other times runs for 5-10min...other times doesn't kick on for a while where we have no pressure and then finally kicks on and runs forever till goes off.
Problem: Fluctuating Pressure and very abnormally high Power Bill!!(and I know how much power we are used to using and 202.00 for us is super high without using a electric furnace or bunch of A/C units)...
#1 all my life I've lived in houses with well water and I would never hear the pump run like this...EVER!! and when I would hear it it would take a shower or car washing of the swort to kick it on and still would not run like this thing does.
#2 I believe the 220v well pump is the culprit of high power bill due to it running so much everyday on and off and those long periods of runtime....besides the pressure varying during showers too.
Landlord says system is normal, power bill for his mom who lived here 30yrs was always like that and even 370s during summer with a/c window units running...WTH (we won't go into that)
From some online research, I've come to the conclusion that the pressure tank bladder thing has gone bad, or 2 the cut on switch going bad, or both causing the pump to cycle so much using lots more power!!???
**Also, the blue pressure tank in the well is 8gal (which supposively means only 3gal of water, rest air??) This also, (appears from research), to be too small a setup for this size house and water outlets which I've read will cause pump systems to run a lot more than normal.??? is this correct??
I'm sorry this is long, just trying to explain the situation fully and any and all help would be much appreciated as I'm smart enough to know something is wrong, my landlord disagrees, so I'm looking to figure things out on my own first then proceed with some factual information and even hire someone if need be to assess the system and it's performance or lack of. Thanks to all and blessings to all!!

 

[Ron]

Hi John!
Hope you are well and liking life in SC.

A couple general thoughts and then some specific help.

1- SC power is higher than NC for duke power customers because of... well a lot of stuff. But sc is marginally higher, just know that.
2- mobile homes are notoriously inefficient and poorly thermally insulated. As such mobile homes will use more power than a similarly sized same age stick built.
3- do not modify or alter your landlords home. Don't do it. Don't hire someone to prove you are right. It will simply upset landlord. He isnt required to provide energy efficient homes only liveable. You can't make him fix the water system if it delivers clean safe water. If this is that big of a deal move. Seriously move before you do any of the above.
4- an 8lb pressure tank is 20 gallon equivalent. Not ideal sized but not uncommon at all. I've seen as low as 4 gallon tanks on 3 bath mobiles.
5- if you have a problem, and your description doesn't make it a guarantee that you do have a problem, but if you do I'd suspect your pressure switch not the tank.
6- do not tamper or try to repair this yourself. I know I have said this already. But don't do it. It's wrong, opens you up to civil and legal liabilities , and will turn out bad for you. If you take one piece of advice ever from this forum make this one thing it.

I know a lot of folks who own rental properties in the area and 2 local plumbers...I might can help you if needed. pm me if you want...

 

[RatLabGuy]

OK lets start from the beginning.
1 - you don't own the house so really this is between you and your landlord. Keep in mind that you'll have to really convince him not only is something broken, but that it's actually worthwhile for him to FIX it. It's not his problem if your bills are high.

2 - it's easy to check the tank pressure. There should be a Schrader valve on it. There are lots of tutorials online, just google "how to check pressure tank." Frankly that sounds like the most likely culprit. BUT - it's not your tank and not your job to do anything to it.

3 - yes it's also possible it's too small. But again - technically if it "works" then your landlord has no motivation to replace it. Your best hope is that you can prove the tank is in fact bad, and he'll do the *right* thing and hire a certified plumber to replace it, who will replace w/ a properly sized unit.

 

[RatLabGuy]

ok so Ron just said everything I would have but even better. Listen to him.

btw if you really are worried about power, and knowing what devices are using too much, there are devices you can get to track the average amperage draw over time. But you have to pay for those devices so it's a gamble whether you'll save as much later from using them as you will on buying them

 

[Croatan_Kid]

I was going to say that unless it's a newer double wide, like mine, it's going to pretty much suck to heat and cool.

I love mine though, it's a 2014. It's very well insulated and holds temperature for several hours. Even with temps in the low teens, the highest my electric bill has ever been was 140 bucks.

 

[anvilrubi]

Power bill for a double wide can get up to 500 a month in the heat of the summer, just goes together.

 

[XJsavage]

My mobile home was a 2009 and....I don't wanna talk about it.


Excellent advice above.

 

[rockcity]

Call your landlord and have him fix it. That's your solution.

 

[McCracken]

tl;dr

 

[Chris_Keziah]

Listen to advice given above. However something doesn't sound right with that system. If the pump is on/off a lot that tells me there's either a leak or that the pressure limits are not set correctly. With a well you kinda have to live with the pressure variance but it shouldn't be drastic, that's what the bladder tank it's there for. It helps smooth out any pressure spikes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[marty79]

ok, thanks @Ron for your input and yeah SC has been ok so far, I won't touch anything lol, that is why I'm here!! thanks a bunch
@RatLabGuy that's how I know my power is way too high cause I've had that service for 9yrs now, including Duke power in our previous house we just left a month ago to this more permanent setup and there my bill was 74.00 avg per month on a 1930s old fallen apart house lol so.
I TOTALLY understand Doublewides/trailers suck on insulation BUT, that's pretty much all I've lived in all my life so I've gotten very very used to what to expect from heating and cooling them and that's really what has sprung this up. Anytime my power bill skyrockets like this, I've yet to not find a fault somewhere cause well....yes I'm that big of a power/money saving nazi and yes, my wife and kids at times have not liked me very much for it lol but it's worth it at the end of each month and at this point, she is very much on my side to figure this one out.
and @Chris_Keziah you're right, being on wells all my life mostly, I'm used to the norm but this is way outside the norm so I agree something is off.
I think I've come to 2 conclusions thinking a little more on this:
1: This Doublewide has a completely different (maybe not the "norm") setup with pressure tank size/pump size/cut on/off settings than every other one I've lived in
2: The system is setup kinda in the norm spec but something is bad/going bad/acting up and we just have to patiently figure things out and work things out between us and landlord or plumber.

 

[frankenyoter]

tl;dr

Sorry this is all I can add to this thread. I admit, I didn't read all of this but I did read Ron's response and agree...DONT TOUCH LANDLORDS UTILITIES.

I'd reach out to landlord and if a reasonable effort to correct the issue doesn't happen, pack up and move.

 

[marty79]

so one question remains though unless I missed the answer...would the pump cutting on/off a lot and have long run times use up a lot of power since it is a 220v device?? I guess I'm looking at it like my 220 compressor running a bunch or my plasma cutter running a lot

 

[marty79]

Sorry this is all I can add to this thread. I admit, I didn't read all of this but I did read Ron's response and agree...DONT TOUCH LANDLORDS UTILITIES.

I'd reach out to landlord and if a reasonable effort to correct the issue doesn't happen, pack up and move.

i gotcha I gotcha...yes I've grown up a lot in the past year and no worries, that won't be happening. The Landlord is actually been reasonable so far for 6 weeks that we've been here, it's just this issue he doesn't believe there's a issue and I do and really just trying to get professional opinions about it to see where to go from here. I believe he knows enough to get by but I can tell he mostly doesn't know much more than me on this stuff as far as sizing/pressure setups and what not. He knows the electrics and tomorrow he's agreed to fix/adjust/replace the cut on/off switch and go from there so we will see with that first.....thank you

 

[marty79]

moving is out of the question lol...we just moved here. Clover is VERY hard to find affordable housing in good area for good price and took us 6months to find this beauty with land and shop space/yardage/good price and location so we are very happy with everything but now this....just a little stumbling issue and seeking help and guidance that's all!!

 

[frankenyoter]

i gotcha I gotcha...yes I've grown up a lot in the past year and no worries, that won't be happening. The Landlord is actually been reasonable so far for 6 weeks that we've been here, it's just this issue he doesn't believe there's a issue and I do and really just trying to get professional opinions about it to see where to go from here. I believe he knows enough to get by but I can tell he mostly doesn't know much more than me on this stuff as far as sizing/pressure setups and what not. He knows the electrics and tomorrow he's agreed to fix/adjust/replace the cut on/off switch and go from there so we will see with that first.....thank you

Request a legit plumber diagnose the issue(s) before all of land lords good deeds are used up.

After you groove the pump housing he will be less likely to offer assistance. (Just having a laugh no offense )

 

[marty79]

Request a legit plumber diagnose the issue(s) before all of land lords good deeds are used up.

After you groove the pump housing he will be less likely to offer assistance. (Just having a laugh no offense )

this sounds like the next best step for everyone. Thanks guys for all the input. gotta go sleep, thanks and everyone have a blessed shalom week!!

 

[RatLabGuy]

ok, thanks @Ron for your input and yeah SC has been ok so far, I won't touch anything lol, that is why I'm here!! thanks a bunch
@RatLabGuy that's how I know my power is way too high cause I've had that service for 9yrs now, including Duke power in our previous house we just left a month ago to this more permanent setup and there my bill was 74.00 avg per month on a 1930s old fallen apart house lol so.

I'm talking about actual measurement devices that go either in the wall plug at the end of your cord to measure the draw of a single device, or on the line in or near your breaker to measure the whole circuit. This is a simple one but you can get whole systems, but the price starts really adding up for the fancy stuff
BALDR US Plug Energy Meter Watt Volt Voltage Electricity Monitor Analyzer Power - - Amazon.com

 

[Paul]

"I" am glad to see you back on this fine forum John.
I have no useful advice but the other members on here do.
Good luck solving this problem.
Paul out...

 

[BrianGreen]

John, as someone that owns rental property, don't mess with it. If one of my renters jacks with my stuff, they will be responsible for the bill to fix it.

Please don't open yourself to any problems. If your landlord finds that you even removed the cover on the pressure switch, and then it goes out, he could bill you for the repair.

Not sure on SC laws, but we have to ensure utilities are available. If the water doesn't work, we are responsible for getting it working. That could mean a midnight plumber bill. Not a bill you want to get stuck with for messing with it yourself.

 

[jeepinmatt]

The only way I see that you can "encourage" the landlord to fix anything major on the system is emphasize and leveraging the risk of the well pump going out from excess, unnecessary usage. Even if he realizes that, he may still prefer to take the risk.

 

[lockedup5]

If you have low pressure sometimes and high pressure at others I would say the 1/4" pipe running to the pressure switch is full of sediment. When it gets full of sediment it takes extra time for the switch to cut off because it doesn't allow the volume/pressure to get to the switch. That's how you end up with high pressure.
You end up with low water pressure because the water on top of the sediment holds the pressure on the switch and won't allow it to cut on at the right time.
Do you ever run out of water or does the water volume ever change? It's most likely not gotten that bad yet.
My advice would be to replace the pressure gauge first in order to get an accurate pressure reading because if you suspect sediment may be the problem I guarantee you the gauge is giving false readings.
For $30-$40 I just replace it all usually and there is no question it's fixed.
Check the bladder tank by just barely burping the Schrader valve. If any water at all comes out it's bad.
Also the bladder tank air pressure must be set correctly based on the factory preset of the switch. That's a whole other subject.

P.S. I am a very seasoned landlord with multiple well pumps....
-DO NOT touch my shit!!!!!!
-DO NOT demand me to call a "professional"
-DO NOT attempt to withold rent for leverage if it isn't fixed to your standards(you have the option to move)
-DO NOT demand a midnight plumber/fix you will be alright til the next day

 

[R Q]

Since it's a 220 pump, couldn't one leg of the power or pump be grounded out causing it to run inefficiently? I've had this issue with a pump before.
Before bothering the landlord too much and pissing him off I would propose that y'all hire a plumber/well guy that you both are comfortable with. If everything checks out fine, you pay the service charge fully. If there's an issue, landlord pays.

 

[marty79]

Hey everyone, thanks so much for all the help. He came out to replace/adjust pressure switch and clean that little line along with adding air to the blue tank thing. So far 2days everything is much better, pump cutting on proper and off proper so hopefully will remain. He has agreed to replace pressure tank if continues to give issues so very thankful. Thanks for the input.

 

[a_kelley]

When the bladder goes out in the pressure tank it will cause short cycling and surging pressure as the tank creates the pressure surges due to lack of air space. It keeps the pump from cycling often by basically being a buffer for the water pressure. (Also water will come out of the Schrader valve on the too of the tank if the bladder is blown typically). As others have said, let your landlord handle it. Pressure switch can cause similar issues. Both are usually replaced at the same fine. HTH. Oh and as far as electrical power is concerned, the same amount of water is delivered, so it takes the same amount of electricity, it just contributes more to the wear on the pump by being cycled more often. Most common symptom is changing water temperature/pressure while showering.