Controlling Weak Points

ckruzer

ckruzer

Infidel
Joined
Jul 2, 2015
Location
asheville nc
Tried researching but usually such a question is answered by "go bigger". Trying to understand the hypertechnical

That said...

What is the order in axle anatomy to control weak points? From what i gather, if you can control where the weak point is, you can control the financial dent when the break happens. It appears having the dhsaft yoke be the optimum weak point?

Here is some info I have gathered on moving around weak points

-Hubs vs Flanges(w/ selectable)
-oem vs chromo vs rcv
-oem vs cryo r&p
-13XX vs 1350 yoke joint
-weaker outers vs inner shafts & vice versa
-chromo shafts but weaker ujoints (prevent r&p weak point)
 
I will add a "fuse" in my driveline but only one that causes the least damage to surrounding parts. Driveshafts are sketchy sometimes because when they break under power they can take out a ton of shit. Safest place it at the transfer case imo. Axle U joints will ruin shafts and spit ball joints, so make sure those are sound. Inner shafts are a safe bet for a fuse usually. Best fuses by far are locking hubs.
 
If a driveshaft or yoke is your fuse, you risk a heavy, spinning object damaging other items. You never want an internal part as your fuse, such as a ring and pinion, axle shaft, etc.
If you MUST engineer a fuse, make it something like an OEM lockout hub that rarely has collateral damage.

Or build and wheel in a manner where there isn't one...Didn't we have this talk while riding in my Ranger last weekend? :flipoff2:
 
I run D60 and a 14 bolt on 42s. As someone who beats the crap outta his rig, I have always chosen the driveshafts. I have never damaged anything, (except one time punched a hole in the floor from the rear transfer-case output shaft failed and the rear driveshaft hit the floor during a hi-rpm flogging after dropping it on a rock!) And in all my years I have only ever bent one 1/4" wall driveshaft (at the spline)!.

In fact I run 1350 joints in the rear and 1310 joints in the front! I fail both front and rear occasionally but have never failed one more often than the other. And Im willing to bet that most of my ujoint failures have been from rock impacts and not true joint failures. Joints are the easiest to carry and driveshafts are the easiest to repair or replace when you're wheeling!

Hands down...Driveshafts/joints are the best fuse!
 
Jody Treadway said:
... OEM lockout hub that rarely has collateral damage....
Click to expand...

Even a lockout has a inherent risk of damaging the stub when they fail. I have seen this too often. I would add that a catastrophically failed lockout sucks to dig out of the hub on the trail, and its a pretty expensive spare to carry as well.
 
XJsavage said:
Best fuses by far are locking hubs.
Click to expand...

Does anyone else remember when Warn actually created and marketed a "hub fuse" designed for just this purpose.
 
Ron said:
Does anyone else remember when Warn actually created and marketed a "hub fuse" designed for just this purpose.
Click to expand...
I have seen them. Once. However, pretty much any hub warn makes is about as weak as Coors! I have the golds in mine for now.


Yukon is a great hub but be cautious with what combination you go with in axles when using those. They are very strong. Debatable as to if stronger than some chromo shafts. I know for sure they are stronger than a stock Dana 60 dually inner. Found that out at the flats.
 
Interesting note as well. Imported alloy stubs made a good fuse on my dana 60, (I ran these for a while), because the seemed to always break clean at the yoke! Just sucked so much to change em out, I went with the best axles and joints!
 
I fuse whatever costs the least to replace and is the easiest to repair on the trail. For me I think it's the driveshaft joints and maybe the front stubs on the D60. Both are pretty easy to change out.
 
If you are planning to have a fuse in your system, the lockout or driveshaft is the easiest to fix. just becuase those are the planned fuses doesnt mean they will work though. I have seen a number of chromo shafts break with warn lockouts, 1310 driveshafts, and spicer joints.

Another option is to leave the front open. This may not be the most fun, but will minimize potential for damage.

I do not suggest spending money on chromo shafts and running stock style joints. When the joint fails, so will your shaft.

If your gears are setup well, I dont see them being the weak point until everything else is built. Even then, depending on the axle, there are other chromo things that will likely break before a R&P.

I dont see Cryo R&Ps being worth the money. Just set them up well, and they will likely not break.
 
Jody Treadway said:
If a driveshaft or yoke is your fuse, you risk a heavy, spinning object damaging other items. You never want an internal part as your fuse, such as a ring and pinion, axle shaft, etc.
If you MUST engineer a fuse, make it something like an OEM lockout hub that rarely has collateral damage.

Or build and wheel in a manner where there isn't one...Didn't we have this talk while riding in my Ranger last weekend? :flipoff2:
Click to expand...

Indeed we did! And I fully intend to implement the concluding hypotheFact from that that convo! lol. Im also a knowledge freak. i crave it. lol. If you only accept what a guru or "master of the craft" tells you, then youre forever married to them and you yourself can never become something greater than a follower of the Do'ers. :cool:

Hoping to understand the hypertechnical so i can understand to the fullest extent "why" I will be doing what I will be doing. :beer:

iirc, the plan is: chromo, welded tubes, selectable, and drive flanges. and simply enjoy the rear as it is ( :poop: ) lol. Im all for it! and when there are enough dents/scrapes and a tow pig, upgrade to 60+14b. Viola!
 
At what point is failure acceptable? Put in chromoly shafts and joints with full circle clips. If they fail they will be under warranty and you can always resell them. I haven't found any significant differences in ring and pinions. Keep your bearings lubed and your seals fresh. I found the 70-80's full turn warn hubs to be virtually indestructible. The warn premiums break easy. Moog ball joint are fairly good. When you get the point you are damaging the housing or get tired of worn out ball joints then it's time to upgrade to a 60.
 
ckruzer said:
These oem ford ones on mine are the ones you speak of correct?
Click to expand...

The way to tell, is as he described. Can you switch them in and out with a quarter/half turn or do you need to turn it a fulltime around?
 
Jody Treadway said:
If a driveshaft or yoke is your fuse, you risk a heavy, spinning object damaging other items. You never want an internal part as your fuse, such as a ring and pinion, axle shaft, etc.
If you MUST engineer a fuse, make it something like an OEM lockout hub that rarely has collateral damage.

Or build and wheel in a manner where there isn't one...Didn't we have this talk while riding in my Ranger last weekend? :flipoff2:
Click to expand...
other words dont wheel a dana 30 like you got 30 more danas
 
ckruzer said:
Indeed we did! And I fully intend to implement the concluding hypotheFact from that that convo! lol. Im also a knowledge freak. i crave it. lol. If you only accept what a guru or "master of the craft" tells you, then youre forever married to them and you yourself can never become something greater than a follower of the Do'ers. :cool:

Hoping to understand the hypertechnical so i can understand to the fullest extent "why" I will be doing what I will be doing. :beer:

iirc, the plan is: chromo, welded tubes, selectable, and drive flanges. and simply enjoy the rear as it is ( :poop: ) lol. Im all for it! and when there are enough dents/scrapes and a tow pig, upgrade to 60+14b. Viola!
Click to expand...
i would do nothing but gear it (which i think you have) put a cheap lunch box locker in it and run it) otherwise you'll get in a situation where im at. ive got a fully built 30 for close to the cost of a stock 60 and its nowhere near as strong as the stock 60, it wont have a high resale value so whatever you put into the 44 you wont see much of a return. i think if you learn to wheel your rig modestly and get use to your rig you will be fine. with stock shafts and spicer joints for now.
 
Loganwayne said:
other words dont wheel a dana 30 like you got 30 more danas
Click to expand...

Don't listen to him....many idiots have sunk money into dana 30's (he and I BOTH are that dumb) and there's tons of them for spares :cool:


Kidding


Well, not about the part where Logan and I are both stupid for investing in Dana 30's
 
CasterTroy said:
Don't listen to him....many idiots have sunk money into dana 30's (he and I BOTH are that dumb) and there's tons of them for spares :cool:


Kidding


Well, not about the part where Logan and I are both stupid for investing in Dana 30's
Click to expand...
stop lying to yourself if its gonna be a trail rig only dont spend a dime on a 30..... mine was gonna be a duel purpose till i got mad i couldnt keep up
 
Loganwayne said:
it wont have a high resale value so whatever you put into the 44 you wont see much of a return. i think if you learn to wheel your rig modestly and get use to your rig you will be fine. with stock shafts and spicer joints for now.
Click to expand...

thats what jody and i concluded. just gunna rock it out and go have some fun, and be smart. optionally ill look into some chromos due to their nominal cost. a lunchbox for now for sure. and whenever i have spare 100 bucks laying round in the jeep jar, ill optionally toss in a selectable and drive flanges as a final step before going 60, but that was ante'd with that being approximatley the total cost of a used 60 only needing another few bones to regear.

right now i need to put my money first towards

-intake filter routing
-steering box
-rockers (picking up next week)
-front shaft (picking up next week)
-skid plate (ordering next week)
-front bumper (picking up a front in a weekend or two)
-rear bumper with hitch
 
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