D-6

Bebop said:
6L80/90e do this native already with a classic shifter. Why reinvent the wheel ?
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Im not saying I agree with it, but his answer will be cabin layout. A mechanical shifter takes up room, a considerable amount in a tight cabin
 
Ron said:
Im not saying I agree with it, but his answer will be cabin layout. A mechanical shifter takes up room, a considerable amount in a tight cabin
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Dirt track shifter doesn't hardly take any room. But we could beat a dead horse on theory, and this whole "thing" is brain farts anyway.
 
MetalCraftSolved said:
Well I like your Idea, and I'll tell you why I like it, and why I don't like it.

I absolutely do not like the turn shift knob idea. In a racing scenario this will be a nightmare. There's just not enough space in between the angles where the knob needs to be turned to be in the particular gear or neutral or "park" or wherever it needs to be. Definitely see an adrenaline rush turning the knob way past where it needed to be shifted.

On the other hand.....

If I could press a button.....

We'll say I can just press a button and be in drive or first, second or third gear. Neutral, reverse , or park.

This would be amazing.

Although I don't like the concept of relying on the electrical shifter, the Bomber way is to knock out two birds with one stone and this may be one of those things.

It would be cool to not have to deal the shifter gate!

I'm going to put some thought into this over the course of the week and maybe decide who I need to talk to about it.

Any more details about it would be nice. I think it would be cool to hit a button and automatically be in 1st gear, or reverse.

Pretty neat! @Ron
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Have you looked into RADESIGNS shifters? They do some neat things with electronic controls and alternate shiters.
 
braxton357 said:
Y'all are all fuckin dumb. Why not a neurofeedback shield on an arduino and use your mind to control the shifter.
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Or a little sphincter probe that you sit on. When it senses a sudden compression, it automatically shifts to reverse and floors it.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
Have you looked into RADESIGNS shifters? They do some neat things with electronic controls and alternate shiters.
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A whole page of this crap is solved with a winters shifter with rad designs kit for tap shifting a 6L series.

Design cock pit around the shifters and done.

Levi uses a combo, rad designs and a up/down momentary lever to the right of the wheel for tap shifting. Just takes some muscle memory to hit the reverse gate in a hurry.

The last thing I want in a dependable and easy to troubleshoot and fix race rig, would be push button electrical switches, when there is a mechanical solution.

The thought of being able to run on only battery if an alternator fails, is idiotic when thinking of electric fans and electronic shifter control.

Just as in the way that psc/stazworks rear steer momentary “sealed” switches get stuck in heavy dust.

This is like solving 1 problem, with a solution that creates 6 more problems, vs a real solution.

All of this dumb stuff doesn’t help finish races lol. May be trick in line at tech, but that’s about it.
 
Mac5005 said:
A whole page of this crap is solved with a winters shifter with rad designs kit for tap shifting a 6L series.

Design cock pit around the shifters and done.

Levi uses a combo, rad designs and a up/down momentary lever to the right of the wheel for tap shifting. Just takes some muscle memory to hit the reverse gate in a hurry.

The last thing I want in a dependable and easy to troubleshoot and fix race rig, would be push button electrical switches, when there is a mechanical solution.

The thought of being able to run on only battery if an alternator fails, is idiotic when thinking of electric fans and electronic shifter control.

Just as in the way that psc/stazworks rear steer momentary “sealed” switches get stuck in heavy dust.

This is like solving 1 problem, with a solution that creates 6 more problems, vs a real solution.

All of this dumb stuff doesn’t help finish races lol. May be trick in line at tech, but that’s about it.
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Eric Miller finished the teardown in Tennessee couple months back switching batteries because his alternator went out.

I'm falling in love with the idea that I can touch a button and instantly be in reverse.

I doubt it takes much electricity to run that actuator.
 
MetalCraftSolved said:
Eric Miller finished the teardown in Tennessee couple months back switching batteries because his alternator went out.

I'm falling in love with the idea that I can touch a button and instantly be in reverse.

I doubt it takes much electricity to run that actuator.
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Or shove the shifter forward against the gate, and it’s in reverse.

That’s literally the reason a rock crawling gate for a winters shifter exists.


The aop lap is probably the shortest lap out of any race, I don’t recall actually lap distance vs dtor,

The aop lap can be done in 30 mins ish.

Also why you see extra alternators bolted onto cars same as spare driveshafts and fuel pumps.

A spare alternator probably weighs less than a spare battery. Definitely for a spare belt.

If it’s designed/built correctly, a belt change should take around the same time as a tire/wheel change.

How many winters shifter failures have you seen?

How many electronics failures have you seen?

Sure a battery change is quicker than an alternator change.

Are you “building” a race car or a show car?

Needs an actual b pillar with gussets to pass tech.

https://www.ultra4racing.com/sites/default/files/2020 Ultra4 Rulebook V5.0.pdf

Rule Books | Best In The Desert

Car/Truck/Moto Technical Regulations | The Mint 400


I’m all for reinventing things to try to create a competitive edge, or new solution, but really?

Why not create shifter space by using electronics to shift the case vs the trans?

Atlas shifters take more space than the winters.

I’m wondering if you have ever drove anything under stress with a winters shifter, in real life?

For anyone else following, another alternative is the Moab Offroad 4x4 shifter. Also has detents and a lockout to slam forward for a positive reverse engagement.

Better yet, if you are planning to race this, I’m all for the overly complicated electronic shifter. If that rig is in the pits, it’s less cars to pass on course.

Or get some shifter and gauge space by not using a 12” gps.

Or perhaps even better a 9” with a 6” back up one in case one fails. Or an iPad for leadnav with voice over intercom guidance?

It’s all a good plan until things start failing without notice or reason on the lakebed....
 
Mac5005 said:
Or shove the shifter forward against the gate, and it’s in reverse.

That’s literally the reason a rock crawling gate for a winters shifter exists.


The aop lap is probably the shortest lap out of any race, I don’t recall actually lap distance vs dtor,

The aop lap can be done in 30 mins ish.

Also why you see extra alternators bolted onto cars same as spare driveshafts and fuel pumps.

A spare alternator probably weighs less than a spare battery. Definitely for a spare belt.

If it’s designed/built correctly, a belt change should take around the same time as a tire/wheel change.

How many winters shifter failures have you seen?

How many electronics failures have you seen?

Sure a battery change is quicker than an alternator change.

Are you “building” a race car or a show car?

Needs an actual b pillar with gussets to pass tech.

https://www.ultra4racing.com/sites/default/files/2020 Ultra4 Rulebook V5.0.pdf

Rule Books | Best In The Desert

Car/Truck/Moto Technical Regulations | The Mint 400


I’m all for reinventing things to try to create a competitive edge, or new solution, but really?

Why not create shifter space by using electronics to shift the case vs the trans?

Atlas shifters take more space than the winters.

I’m wondering if you have ever drove anything under stress with a winters shifter, in real life?

For anyone else following, another alternative is the Moab Offroad 4x4 shifter. Also has detents and a lockout to slam forward for a positive reverse engagement.

Better yet, if you are planning to race this, I’m all for the overly complicated electronic shifter. If that rig is in the pits, it’s less cars to pass on course.

Or get some shifter and gauge space by not using a 12” gps.

Or perhaps even better a 9” with a 6” back up one in case one fails. Or an iPad for leadnav with voice over intercom guidance?

It’s all a good plan until things start failing without notice or reason on the lakebed....
Click to expand...

I appreciate all the information I'll definitely take it into consideration.
 
A typical trans shifter is also a good rest for your wrist when trying to use a gps at speed over crap terrain. It’s especially worse with the newer touch screens.

Trying to do things with taptics, with gloves, at speed, on a touch screen is nearly impossible with a good wrist rest, and doesn’t get easier while driving, and with no steady rest.

The older non touch screen units have that advantage of real buttons, that you actually have to press and hit the micro switch inside.

As far as gauges. Check out the autometer pro gauges.

Programmable to control relays for anything. Programmable gauge face, can change color if within spec or flash if way out of range.

Ex:

I don’t even have to look at temp gauge.

If it’s blue, fans off, below 175°

If it’s white, I know low speed fan is on, and we are between 175-200°.

If it’s red, hi speed fan is on, 200°+

If it’s flashing red, over 225°


You can change color, flash or not, etc. fully programmable and waterproof. I don’t have to look at gauges to know if everything is 100% or not.

Plus it changes dramatically in my peripheral vision if something is wrong.
 
Mac5005 said:
A typical trans shifter is also a good rest for your wrist when trying to use a gps at speed over crap terrain. It’s especially worse with the newer touch screens.

Trying to do things with taptics, with gloves, at speed, on a touch screen is nearly impossible with a good wrist rest, and doesn’t get easier while driving, and with no steady rest.

The older non touch screen units have that advantage of real buttons, that you actually have to press and hit the micro switch inside.

As far as gauges. Check out the autometer pro gauges.

Programmable to control relays for anything. Programmable gauge face, can change color if within spec or flash if way out of range.

Ex:

I don’t even have to look at temp gauge.

If it’s blue, fans off, below 175°

If it’s white, I know low speed fan is on, and we are between 175-200°.

If it’s red, hi speed fan is on, 200°+

If it’s flashing red, over 225°


You can change color, flash or not, etc. fully programmable and waterproof. I don’t have to look at gauges to know if everything is 100% or not.

Plus it changes dramatically in my peripheral vision if something is wrong.
Click to expand...

Nice.... Sound like you really tear up the competition out there behind the wheel. I always like learning new things about going fast from others.
 
Keep it simple when it comes to electronics.

The desert section of a race shook all of the bolts out of my alternator. That lead to 2 dead yellow top batteries and my co-driver riding with a jump box in his lap.
 
Mac5005 said:
Design cock pit around the shifters and done.

Levi uses a combo, rad designs and a up/down momentary lever to the right of the wheel for tap shifting. Just takes some muscle memory to hit the reverse gate in a hurry.
Click to expand...

I think my words got ahead of my brain when I said we were going to run paddle shifters. We're not going to run paddle shifters.

I can set the automatic transmission shift points and aggressiveness to the Bomber spec, and call it good.

I have to settle on a way to go from 1st gear to Reverse in one movement.

I think that Moab shifter is pretty cool, but I'm still hot on this push button.
 
Mac5005 said:
A typical trans shifter is also a good rest for your wrist when trying to use a gps at speed over crap terrain. It’s especially worse with the newer touch screens.

Trying to do things with taptics, with gloves, at speed, on a touch screen is nearly impossible with a good wrist rest, and doesn’t get easier while driving, and with no steady rest.

The older non touch screen units have that advantage of real buttons, that you actually have to press and hit the micro switch inside.

As far as gauges. Check out the autometer pro gauges.

Programmable to control relays for anything. Programmable gauge face, can change color if within spec or flash if way out of range.

Ex:

I don’t even have to look at temp gauge.

If it’s blue, fans off, below 175°

If it’s white, I know low speed fan is on, and we are between 175-200°.

If it’s red, hi speed fan is on, 200°+

If it’s flashing red, over 225°


You can change color, flash or not, etc. fully programmable and waterproof. I don’t have to look at gauges to know if everything is 100% or not.

Plus it changes dramatically in my peripheral vision if something is wrong.
Click to expand...


Those gauges are awesome... As long as there is a STEP file of them on grabcad. Otherwise, better keep them out of this build.
 
pitbullcruiser said:
Keep it simple when it comes to electronics.

The desert section of a race shook all of the bolts out of my alternator. That lead to 2 dead yellow top batteries and my co-driver riding with a jump box in his lap.
Click to expand...

Back when I used to work in a off road race prep shop in Riverside. These cars would come in after a race and get prepped just to go back out to get fucked up. We would take all the parts off the car and place them on specified shelves for that specific car. We would clean all the parts and then inspect them for damage. If the part were damaged, it would be fixed or replaced. Long story short about the electrical connections..... We would end up dabbing a dot of clear silicone on all of the non-locking electrical screws and nuts. It would keep them from vibrating loose.
 
braxton357 said:
Y'all are all fuckin dumb. Why not a neurofeedback shield on an arduino and use your mind to control the shifter.
Click to expand...
That shit'll never work.
You need a Pi 4b or osmething else with an ARM or better.

Because, well, um... experience.
 
RatLabGuy said:
That shit'll never work.
You need a Pi 4b or osmething else with an ARM or better.

Because, well, um... experience.
Click to expand...
Please tell us more about this experience.
I think thats something that should be shared with all, doesnt sound classified or anything.
 
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