D-6

Mac5005 said:
Or shove the shifter forward against the gate, and it’s in reverse.

That’s literally the reason a rock crawling gate for a winters shifter exists.


The aop lap is probably the shortest lap out of any race, I don’t recall actually lap distance vs dtor,

The aop lap can be done in 30 mins ish.

Also why you see extra alternators bolted onto cars same as spare driveshafts and fuel pumps.

A spare alternator probably weighs less than a spare battery. Definitely for a spare belt.

If it’s designed/built correctly, a belt change should take around the same time as a tire/wheel change.

How many winters shifter failures have you seen?

How many electronics failures have you seen?

Sure a battery change is quicker than an alternator change.

Are you “building” a race car or a show car?

Needs an actual b pillar with gussets to pass tech.

https://www.ultra4racing.com/sites/default/files/2020 Ultra4 Rulebook V5.0.pdf

Rule Books | Best In The Desert

Car/Truck/Moto Technical Regulations | The Mint 400


I’m all for reinventing things to try to create a competitive edge, or new solution, but really?

Why not create shifter space by using electronics to shift the case vs the trans?

Atlas shifters take more space than the winters.

I’m wondering if you have ever drove anything under stress with a winters shifter, in real life?

For anyone else following, another alternative is the Moab Offroad 4x4 shifter. Also has detents and a lockout to slam forward for a positive reverse engagement.

Better yet, if you are planning to race this, I’m all for the overly complicated electronic shifter. If that rig is in the pits, it’s less cars to pass on course.

Or get some shifter and gauge space by not using a 12” gps.

Or perhaps even better a 9” with a 6” back up one in case one fails. Or an iPad for leadnav with voice over intercom guidance?

It’s all a good plan until things start failing without notice or reason on the lakebed....
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Air shifters or linear actuators on the tcase. With a 6spd trans, I almost wonder how fast you can run in low range, and would a single speed tcase be a better option?
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
Air shifters or linear actuators on the tcase. With a 6spd trans, I almost wonder how fast you can run in low range, and would a single speed tcase be a better option?
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I'm not a gear ratio pioneer like Randy Slawson, but I know we can run any race without having to shift the four speed box out of low range. So there's no shifting of the transfer case. That LT5 will laugh at 130 mph, and get up to that speed quickly.
 
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MetalCraftSolved said:
I'm not a gear ratio pioneer like Randy Slawson, but I know we can run any race without having to shift the four speed box out of low range. So there's no shifting of the transfer case. That LT5 will laugh at 130 mph, and get up to that speed quickly.
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If that is the case, why not run an SCS or other single speed transfer case? Or setup a standard case to run electric/pnematic actuators for shifting. Gets rid of a shifter that you dont use.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
If that is the case, why not run an SCS or other single speed transfer case? Or setup a standard case to run electric/pnematic actuators for shifting. Gets rid of a shifter that you dont use.
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Maybe that's a good idea, and maybe that's something he can look at implementing but I need to keep designing around this four speed Atlas because it's the longest setup.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Is there not a better way to accomplish a longer driveline?
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I think about it all the time. The way this chassis is set up, it would probably be a good idea to bolt a turbo 400 and a short transfer case to the LT5. "Only" and I'll repeat "only" if I was going to race in the Baja 1000 or Vegas 1000. Like a true desert race. Otherwise, I'm rolling with the setup we have now, going full attack on Johnson Valley trails, and woods races. If we end up doing that, it gives me a spare transmission to haul to the track. I'll worry about inspecting the drive shaft when the car gets back to the house.
 
I should probably start mocking up with a turbo 400 and a 2 speed transfer case before I nail down the dimensions on the fuel cell.
 
MetalCraftSolved said:
Back when I used to work in a off road race prep shop in Riverside. These cars would come in after a race and get prepped just to go back out to get fucked up. We would take all the parts off the car and place them on specified shelves for that specific car. We would clean all the parts and then inspect them for damage. If the part were damaged, it would be fixed or replaced. Long story short about the electrical connections..... We would end up dabbing a dot of clear silicone on all of the non-locking electrical screws and nuts. It would keep them from vibrating loose.
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Good idea, I pulled all of the bolts out of the new one and red loctited them.
 
New momentary shifting buttons are ready for battle. I may decide to change it up some, but the two top-center buttons above the steering wheel are 1st gear and full drive. I should probably go ahead and throw the 1st & 2nd gear drive button up there in the center. Both the far left, and the far right side buttons above the steering wheel are reverse buttons. Also, I have a full set of shift buttons under the mid-rail near the A-Pillar.

That's 3 reverse buttons. 2 sets of drive buttons, and 1 set of Park & Neutral.

Might put Park & neutral on a 1 or 2 year replacement schedule.

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Alright, so what I've ended up with is 2 sets of all the shift buttons, plus a 3rd reverse button. My plan is to run them til they don't work, and replace them as the break. I think next, I will strategically place the on/off switches. I think it would be cool to hear from all the quiet people out there that don't post because off all of the ass hole reply's on the internet. Speak up. The hell with them people. I know your out there. There are no bad idea's, because they always relate to something. The first lesson I learned if off road racing school is that there is no right way to do off road. Man it would be cool to hear how many electrical switches you run.

I'm thinking like,

- Master Power Switch (which is my dual battery switch)
- Accessory Switch
- Lights switch
- Transmission & oil cooler switch (So I can turn them off)
- Winch
- Coffee maker

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Ron said:
Please tell us more about this experience.
I think thats something that should be shared with all, doesnt sound classified or anything.
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Happy to tell you whatever you want. Probably its own thread... I'd hate to derail this masterpiece.
 
So rather than go through all the ergonomic nightmare of pushbuttons on a panel... why not just use paddle shifters?
The performance cars world figured that out a long time ago. Just get a wheel that already has them on it.
 
83oldyoda4x4 said:
So when can we expect to see this beauty on the trails? or track? Or when is the first piece of tubing going to be ordered?
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Alright, so I just checked and I've been drawing for about 4 months. The process I have to follow starts by making everything in the CAD file life size. Before I cut the first piece of tubing, I will have to build the IFS system. Now.... for me to accomplish that, I have to virtually bend all of the sheet metal and assemble everything like it's real life in my 3D drawing. Then what I'll do is save each, and every little piece of sheet metal as a different file. After I have my bank of files correctly organized, I will E-mail them to the girls down at Moto-bilt. What they will do is take the files of my 3D bent pieces, and enter them into their computer system to be stored on their server. Their computer software will "unfold" my virtual bent material. This is when the computer software recognizes how thick the material is I need. As the files reach the laser machine, the laser machine recognizes the thickness of the material. It then mechanically removes the sheet from it's own storage rack, then slides it into the box where my pieces will be cut out. After the cutting is done, it will drop the whole sheet of material on a pallet that will be picked up by a forklift and moved to the staging area where they sort stuff. After that my pieces will make it to the press brake machine where the guy who operates it will have a blueprint of each different piece of sheet metal I am drawing. He will bend those to the proper angle, and then they will ship them back to me.

At this point, I can build the fixtures for the control arms, and the bulkhead that holds all of the control arms, shocks, and steering together. ( which, those fixtures will be designed in CAD and laser cut also ) Alright, so now after I've build my fixtures, I can weld up the control arms, the bulkhead and the steering knuckles.

The first thing I will order is the front differential housing, the CV's for it, the RCV big bells, and the front hubs. Before I cut parts, I'm gonna need those particular parts physically in my hands, so I can measure them and make absolutely sure everything matches the drawing.

After I've accomplished all of this, and the IFS system completed, then I can start on the chassis.

So, to answer your question. We won't be ordering tubing until this virtual walk around is thoroughly assessed, and all of the second guessing is gone. Only then, when the blueprint for the car is completely immaculate, and everyone involved is on the same page..... Then we'll go to work.


RatLabGuy said:
So rather than go through all the ergonomic nightmare of pushbuttons on a panel... why not just use paddle shifters?
The performance cars world figured that out a long time ago. Just get a wheel that already has them on it.
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I like that buttons on the steering wheel idea. I know on this car, I won't have to deal with the steering wheel slowly, and continuously rotating around, and around, because I've got hard linkage from the steering wheel to the power rack. After I spent an hour sifting through simulator steering wheels on the internet just now, I realized that all the process involves is laser cutting a piece of aluminum that bolts in between the steering wheel and the quick attach hub. So, if I laser cut a piece of aluminum, and put some buttons on it, all I have to do is wire them into the dash with a coil wire.
 
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jeepinmatt said:
How long are his thumbs? How far is it from the OD of the wheel to the center of the buttons?
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The buttons on this 12 inch steering wheel ended up right around 3 inches from the center, which is about 3 inches from the outside of the steering wheel.

The steering wheel contains these buttons.....

2 - Red - Reverse
2 - Yellow - 1st gear
1 - Blue - 1st & 2nd gear
1 - Green - Full Drive
1 - Black - Neutral
1 - Black - Horn/Siren

Typing this out makes me realize I need to trade out one of those toggle switches on the dash for another Park button which is white. Then I'll have 2 full sets, but I have 3 reverse & 3 first gear switches, and only 1 horn/siren button.
 
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This just went Nintendo. K.I.S.S. was blown out pages ago, but this just looks like failure waiting.
Might as well be the Mars Rover out on the track. It will take NASA to trouble shoot that thing if one wire or harness gets chaffed up.

For shits and giggles.....relays, ground active, positive ran through out, or modules with cascading priority when the voltage drops for primary functions?

Cicuit breakers, bus fuses, or radio shack twist locks and glass fuses?

All these switches and stuff are great but drawing woefully miss represents the amount of wiring or custom harnesses that will be required.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Your buttons are on the wrong side.

Let me repeat myself.
The performance car world has thus figured out.

All you have you do is get a steering wheel from a car that already has shift paddles on it.
There's a whole lot of ergonomics you're overcooking.

Heres a randomly chosen one
https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-pe...MIm9L1pder7AIVEbbICh2JNQagEAQYCiABEgK6YfD_BwE
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WARRIORWELDING said:
This just went Nintendo. K.I.S.S. was blown out pages ago, but this just looks like failure waiting.
Might as well be the Mars Rover out on the track. It will take NASA to trouble shoot that thing if one wire or harness gets chaffed up.

For shits and giggles.....relays, ground active, positive ran through out, or modules with cascading priority when the voltage drops for primary functions?

Cicuit breakers, bus fuses, or radio shack twist locks and glass fuses?

All these switches and stuff are great but drawing woefully miss represents the amount of wiring or custom harnesses that will be required.
Click to expand...


Alright so, now I've got "push to talk" to the pit entered into the equation.

Steering wheel/

2 red - reverse
2 yellow- 1st gear
1 blue - 1st & 2nd gear
1 green - full drive
1 black - horn/siren
1 black - push to talk

Dash/

1 black - push to talk
2 white - park
1 red - reverse
2 black - neutral
1 green - full drive
1 blue - 1st & 2nd gear
1 yellow - 1st gear

I don't think there are any fuses, or relays, or circuit breakers, bus fuses, radio shack twist locks, or glass fuses for these switches. They just take over duty for the switch box that comes with the actuator setup. I feel like the extra set of buttons ensures, I won't have to deal with it til I get home. Maybe one will break annually. Maybe not. Even then, this part of the wiring harness would be easy to track. I don't think the wires would get chaffed though. During the wiring process, we would go to great lengths to ensure the wires are routed, and solid mounted where they don't ever move or rub. Of course with the exception of the coil wire to the steering wheel.

I like that Ford Raptor steering wheel. I was actually looking at some from Ferrari ones. Maybe if I don't use them, I can get away with not having to send them off to the dealership for repair.

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So first I’m going to say the push buttons look like they will take your hands off it for whatever reason you hit a hole or rock and it jerks the wheel more so if it’s just on a sheet of metal.

If one of the wires were to get cut and create an open loop would it effect the other buttons you have from working?


Personally I’d just want the essential things on the wheel. Paddle shifters and a com. button and a horn button one each in the top corner of the wheel on the outside edge so you can swiftly and easily slide your thumb over and touch without thinking about it


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