Difficulty of Daniel

[DRaider90]

Some may have noticed that the Cotton Place parking lot (the entrance to Daniel) is usually quite empty. This is because a lot of people don't like the idea of having to come all the way back down Daniel (especially the ledges) to get back to their trailer.

If they were to re-open Gold Mine (or a new trail using parts of Gold Mine) it would create a loop allowing a way to get back to the other areas of the trail system without necessarily having to go back up Daniel. The fact that Daniel is a "no outlet" trail so to speak is bad for un-licensed rigs, and ATV's/Dirt Bikes. Because there are a large majority of ATV's Dirt Bikes that can't/won't go back up the ledges etc (some won't even go down them, but that would be resolved with a bypass). This is why there are so many spider trails on the bottom side of Daniel.

I do know there are a lot of illegal bypasses on Daniel that need to be blocked. Including the steep one that bypasses the "Gate Keeper" V-Notch right before the first ledge. In my opinion at least if you can't handle the V-Notch you shouldn't be attempting the ledges,Z-Turn, and 3 path hill climb. What I want to do is organize a trail hike of the Gold Mine trail, plus the old Forest Service Rd that connects to Daniel at the Z-Turn. These both could be used (in whole or in part) to open up new trails to make Daniel a loop and extend our trail system.

 

[ghost]

I like that idea. I love to run Daniel but parking there is a pain when you have to come back down those ledges.

 

[drkelly]

What I want to do is organize a trail hike of the Gold Mine trail, plus the old Forest Service Rd that connects to Daniel at the Z-Turn. These both could be used (in whole or in part) to open up new trails to make Daniel a loop and extend our trail system.

Right on. I'd be up for hiking through the woods to find a possible route over to Dickey Bell. Would the Forest Ranger attend this hike? It would be great if there is a civil engineer on this board who could come on the hike. They might be able to give suggestions on routing the trail to best suit the land since from what I heard water run off on Gold Mine was one of the reasons it was shut down.

 

[Don Layton]

Sounds good, I would love to walk the old trail. I have a built YJ, a dirt bike and my son rides an 80 four wheeler so I know what all groups want in a trail. I use to ride gold mine in the late eighty's and the hill climb was very nasty when it was wet. I did not have the waterbars to help slow you down and had very few rocks.

 

[shawn]

The problem with Gold Mine is that it basically ran right up the watershed for one stream, crossed over a saddle, and ran right down the watershed for a second stream.

Looking at the old (50/60s) Uwharrie map, there are probably other suitable roadbeds in that area that could be used in whole or in part to get from the Daniel trailhead over to Dickie Bell. The trick would probably be getting across that stream on the Daniel side, then up and over Daniel Mountain to hit Dickie Bell either up on Shingle Trap Mountain, or somewhere down in the valley once it drops alongside (and through) that stream.

Might even just be able to stick hard to the east and run along the side of Daniel Mtn, kinda where the horse trails are.

 

[drkelly]

I use to ride gold mine in the late eighty's and the hill climb was very nasty when it was wet. I did not have the waterbars to help slow you down and had very few rocks.

Same here! I remember one time coming around the turn at the bottom of that hill, and there were three dudes on dirt bikes sprawled out at different locations on the hill! LOL. I had to wait for all three of them to pick their bikes up and slide back down before giving it a shot myself. It must have been about 1990-1991. Good times!


Maybe they can bury a pipe or build a small bridge across any drainage easements/creeks to limit runoff.

 

[DRaider90]

As many probably know this isn't the first time we talked about doing this. The first few pages of the thread have a slew of older maps that we can use for our hiking plans.

http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76418&highlight=old+map

This time around we have an established volunteering group, plus have better lines of communication with the Forest Service. Hopefully Bruce (deezul), and a couple of the others that have a more historical knowledge of the trail systems are willing to chime in again.

This first question is who all do we need with us on the first hike. In my opinion at least it would be good to have a hydrologist and even a civil engineer (as mentioned earlier) with if possible, along with the historical experts that know where all these trails are. I don't know if we would want the Forest Service along for the first hike. I like the idea of going out there, gathering information and get our ducks in a row. Then go on a 2nd hike later on with the Forest Service to get their feedback on our ideas etc. Any thoughts?

 

[biggoofy]

Im not much help but im in for the hike.

 

[ghost]

I'd like to come hike that too.... just not sure I can make it with all that is going on. Keep me in the loop on when you do it and I'll try and be there.

 

[Don Layton]

Off the subject but I found an old map that showed CCC at the end of 576 and Big Branch connecting CCC to 576 above the current Falls Dam trail. The map was made before Daniel was built.

 

[DRaider90]

Off the subject but I found an old map that showed CCC at the end of 576 and Big Branch connecting CCC to 576 above the current Falls Dam trail. The map was made before Daniel was built.

Do you have a link to this map? The only older map I have shows Big Branch Trail off to the side connected to the Elk Horn Trail, and then the CCC Trail running along the Bobcat Trail and Prison Camp Trail then connecting into the Wolf Den Trail. Would be cool to see the map.

 

[Don Layton]

The maps are in bad shape but i will try to get them scanned. On is from around 1987 and the other was made right after Daniel was opened to jeeps and CCC was closed. I am new to NC4X4 and still trying to learn how to work the site (pics, etc). One thing to note is that an environmental group from Greensboro has started their attacks on the Gold Miners in the Uwharrie River. This is why we need to keep all groups in mind with trail maintenance and planning (jeeps, dirt bikes, ATV),. The needs of many outweigh the needs of a few.

 

[LBarr2002]

Including the steep one that bypasses the "Gate Keeper" V-Notch right before the first ledge. In my opinion at least if you can't handle the V-Notch you shouldn't be attempting the ledges,Z-Turn, and 3 path hill climb.

The v-notch is not hard, its just hard not to loose your back window in a full bodied rig. The XJ in front of me lost his back glass last time I was there, and I hit my mirror. As I said earlier in this thread, the ledges, z-turn, and easier line of 3 path hill was no problem in my open open xj on 31's...

 

[DRaider90]

The v-notch is not hard, its just hard not to loose your back window in a full bodied rig. The XJ in front of me lost his back glass last time I was there, and I hit my mirror. As I said earlier in this thread, the ledges, z-turn, and easier line of 3 path hill was no problem in my open open xj on 31's...

(Sorry if this is a long winded reply)

I don't doubt that the v-notch and other obstacles can be done with an XJ open/open on 31s. Just about any vehicle with a good driver and/or a good spotter can make it up Daniel no problems/very little problems when its dry. Heck, we got a Gen 1 Isuzu Trooper with a 2.3L 4-Banger, open/open, bone stock, on 235/75s up Daniel without being strapped etc. But not every run on Daniel goes smoothly for a varying number of reasons. Including the trail being wet, to just taking a slightly wrong line putting you in a world of hurt. I know from experience having had a lot of perfect runs on Daniel, to the runs where everything and anything can go wrong.

The v-notch (aka Gatekeeper) as you mentioned can bust out rear windows and cause other damage this I know. I was one of the first to find this out back in October 2009 when that notch had just gotten bad and the trail was wet. Judging by my red paint being the only one on the tree root I was probably one of the first to drag across that root. It put two huge dents on each side of my rear window, but it was the grace of god that it didn't bust my rear window. April of the next year when Daniel was dry I went right up the V-notch again, didn't hit the root and everything went smoothly.

After that the 1st Ledge usually doesn't present too much risk/danger but a bad line could put you on your side if your not careful. After that the 2nd ledge has had many a rig roll over from the hole on the right hand side just as you come up over it (where the guard rail used to be). Then the tree after the Z-Turn can wedge you sideways pitching your roof against the tree to the point you have to get winched off it. All that tree bark is missing up there for a reason. Then your off to the 3 path hill climb that has also had many vehicles break or roll down it on the right hand 2 lines.

So in at least my opinion until there are legal bypasses in place for the obstacles on the lower side of Daniel, vehicles shouldn't be allowed around obstacles if they can't handle the risk involved. The V-notch when its dry may not be a challenge as far as vehicle/driver capability but its a challenge to get up it without body damage or a busted window. And if people can't handle that, they shouldn't be tackling any of the other obstacles that have their own risks for damage including rolling which is a lot worse than just a busted window. That is why the nickname "gate keeper" has stuck for that obstacle.

But again this is just my opinion, and it comes from the point of view if someone is going to say "I did Daniel", it should involve all the obstacles that give the trail a Black Diamond "Most Difficult" rating. Its like saying "I drove my truck straight up Kodak Rock", when you took the bypass on the right that goes around it.

 

[92illpony]

closing weekend we got a 4runner wedged on the root right at the window line but didn't bust any of them. I had to get around him on the slick ass bypass to pull him forward. Once past the "Gate Keeper", some folks were headed down in a very nice jeep and a stockish sami. While watching the sami i don't see many vehicles getting past this obstacle without hitting the root/tree combo unless your in the marsfab buggy and crawl over/around the tree IN THE CONDITION it was in the closing saturday. The sami bashed the windshield frame and the root was on the windshield. Pulled him back and got the windshield past but the root was in the cab and beat the hell out of the B pillar.

first attempt on windshield

second attempt will clear windshield but gets stuck on B pillar

Marsfab buggy approach

 

[GotWood]

I have never had a problem there. Just stay to the up hill side and drive by.

 

[Sal-XK]

compliments of V notch

 

[badger]

thats me haha... ill have to post some pics of it beat up. got home and put the door on the pass side and got it to shut lol. thats why i have it.

closing weekend we got a 4runner wedged on the root right at the window line but didn't bust any of them. I had to get around him on the slick ass bypass to pull him forward. Once past the "Gate Keeper", some folks were headed down in a very nice jeep and a stockish sami. While watching the sami i don't see many vehicles getting past this obstacle without hitting the root/tree combo unless your in the marsfab buggy and crawl over/around the tree IN THE CONDITION it was in the closing saturday. The sami bashed the windshield frame and the root was on the windshield. Pulled him back and got the windshield past but the root was in the cab and beat the hell out of the B pillar.

first attempt on windshield

second attempt will clear windshield but gets stuck on B pillar

Marsfab buggy approach

 

[Lrgrnr]

I have never had a problem there. Just stay to the up hill side and drive by.

x2

Never came close to hitting it......but have seen a few tag it.......hitting it Must be a Jeep thing

 

[DRaider90]

x2

Never came close to hitting it......but have seen a few tag it.......hitting it Must be a Jeep thing

There is actually a trail that goes off to the side right above where the gatekeeper (or v-notch) is. We are thinking its the old Long Leaf Pine Trail. Its been looked at as a part of the Gold Mine re-opening project. So hopefully in the future people won't have to go back up the gate keeper after coming down and possibly tag it a 2nd time. They will be able to use the "new" Gold Mine trail in theory.