Do-it-yourself fuel injection

fordwheelinman said:
Could the same swap be done on a 78 f150 with a 400 or 460?
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I'm sure it could, but they may need a custom chip burned for it to run right. On my 351 I'm running with the stock chevy 350 tune. The 351m, 400, and 460 use the same distributor. I'd probably look for a chevy with a 454 to get parts from however since the throttle body and injectors are bigger, they'd be better for feeding the larger ford mills. The tbi isn't friendly to wild cams however, so if you're planning on using a cam with more than 218 duration at .050 or less than 112 degrees overlap then you may be better off adapting fords own mpfi onto the 460
 
Tim C said:
I'm sure it could, but they may need a custom chip burned for it to run right. On my 351 I'm running with the stock chevy 350 tune. The 351m, 400, and 460 use the same distributor. I'd probably look for a chevy with a 454 to get parts from however since the throttle body and injectors are bigger, they'd be better for feeding the larger ford mills. The tbi isn't friendly to wild cams however, so if you're planning on using a cam with more than 218 duration at .050 or less than 112 degrees overlap then you may be better off adapting fords own mpfi onto the 460
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Do you think it would be possible to run fords 460 FI intakes and full set up on a carb'ed 460 without changing the heads?
 
fordwheelinman said:
Do you think it would be possible to run fords 460 FI intakes and full set up on a carb'ed 460 without changing the heads?
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I don't know about port matching, but it will physically swap. Check out www.fullsizebronco.com there is a lot of info on that swap on that site.
 
gm tbi

I'm running one of timc's tbi swaps on my 76 f150 and it has been great for me the simplicity of the system and cheaply available replacement parts has served us very well and it runs extremely well on my stock motor and has been very reliable with only a couple minor qwerks I like junkyard solutions so I say run tbi if the motor is close to stock good luck granny whatever u run I liked Ur old jeep why the rebuild
 
Here's my take. I run the TBI on my Jeep, but, I am all Chevy drive train. It's a tried and true, not to mention dependable set up. So one of you guru's need to do a VERY detailed write up, complete with pictures and step by step directions. From start to finish, including what all of the little things you had to do, parts you scavenged, and even throw in some sources, and prices of parts you may or may not want/need to replace. Complete this with a video at the end showing how well it works on and off road.
Then if you want, SELL the instructions to recoup your time and money spent. You may have already done one, so in that case sell your system, and make the efforts pay off. If it's lucrative, start selling them for all type of carbed engines.
 
zombhntr said:
I'm running one of timc's tbi swaps on my 76 f150 and it has been great for me the simplicity of the system and cheaply available replacement parts has served us very well and it runs extremely well on my stock motor and has been very reliable with only a couple minor qwerks I like junkyard solutions so I say run tbi if the motor is close to stock good luck granny whatever u run I liked Ur old jeep why the rebuild
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Thank you... Old Granny gave it up last June, in Harlan, with a broken frame. Build thread: http://www.nc4x4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116224
 
upnover said:
So one of you guru's need to do a VERY detailed write up, complete with pictures and step by step directions. From start to finish, including what all of the little things you had to do, parts you scavenged, and even throw in some sources, and prices of parts you may or may not want/need to replace.
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That would be VERY helpful. I have read (over & over) the list of stuff that is needed when you rip a FI system out of another vehicle, but I don't have a clue what that stuff looks like. The o2 sensor I can figure out as I'm pretty sure it's welded to the exhaust pipe, but the other stuff still remains a mystery to me.
 
upnover said:
So one of you guru's need to do a VERY detailed write up, complete with pictures and step by step directions. From start to finish, including what all of the little things you had to do, parts you scavenged, and even throw in some sources, and prices of parts you may or may not want/need to replace.
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Bill Hamilton has done ALL of this within the Binder Planet FI forums! While I haven't seen it written anywhere, he's been doing it for a LONG time

upnover said:
Complete this with a video at the end showing how well it works on and off road.
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Bill really isn't a wheeler persee (just everyday 4x4 use getting out in the snow, hunting, farm use, etc), BUT there are tons of videos/testimonials about the benefits on & off road.

upnover said:
Then if you want, SELL the instructions to recoup your time and money spent. You may have already done one, so in that case sell your system, and make the efforts pay off. If it's lucrative, start selling them for all type of carbed engines.
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Not sure how profitable it is, but Bill has been selling the complete kits for years too! IIRC, they're more than Howell's kit, but come backed with his knowledge of TBI'ing & tuning everything from antique tractors thru every make/model/cylinder count of engine you can name (my favs are the Corvair and a dual-fuel Scout) to twin-TBI BBC drag motors.
He's now working on adapting later model ECMs & MPFI to the same engines...

Why reinvent the wheel? :lol:
 
I dug this one up again... for a reason. Caver Dave, I hope you are paying attention... I might need ya. This past weekend, at the URE Jamboree, I told several people that I thought I would go ahead and order the Howell Injection. Well, I need to stop telling folks I am going to do something 'cause it seems like every time I do I end up doing something else... no difference here. I went to the boneyard today and got a complete TBI Injection System off a '91 4.3. I got the computer, throttle body, all the wire, and everthing that was attached to a wire. It looks like a big box full of crap. I just hope it doesn't end up being a big box full of crap. I have gathered all sorts of info and will be trying, in the near future, to make it all work. I don't have a lot invested in it so if it fails I will will lose mostly time and not a lot of dollars. Wish me luck. :)
 
Granny said:
I dug this one up again... for a reason. Caver Dave, I hope you are paying attention... I might need ya. This past weekend, at the URE Jamboree, I told several people that I thought I would go ahead and order the Howell Injection. Well, I need to stop telling folks I am going to do som
ething 'cause it seems like every time I do I end up doing something else... no difference here. I went to the boneyard today and got a complete TBI Injection System off a '91 4.3. I got the computer, throttle body, all the wire, and everthing that was attached to a wire. It looks like a big box full of crap. I just hope it doesn't end up being a big box full of crap. I have gathered all sorts of info and will be trying, in the near future, to make it all work. I don't have a lot invested in it so if it fails I will will lose mostly time and not a lot of dollars. Wish me luck. :)
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It's not too hard to figure out. Just post up here and myself and others who have done the swap can walk you through it. You can also pm me if you'd like my phone number I'd be glad to help you out all I can.
 
OK... Tim C or Caver Dave... or anyone else... all info I can find tells me the knock sensor isn't too compatible on the AMC 258. The suggested alternative is to tie B7 to C14 and bypass it. What to do????

Also, just how many wires should I have left in the ALDL cable once all the cutting is done? Thanks Guys!!!!
 
I have 3 wires in my aldl. Terminals a, b, and e. A is ground, b is the diagnostic trigger for lack of a better term, and e is serial data for scan tool communication. Jumping a and b will enter diagnostics and cause the check engine light to flash codes. Those are the only three wires required at the aldl to work.


I left the knock sensor working on my swap, but its still a v8 engine. It may not be tuned to the exact frequency of my block like it is on a chevy truck but it seems to work good enough for me to leave it. In your case I would probably bypass it like you said.

Btw I should be at the open invite at the flats this weekend, if you're there feel free to look me up. I'll be in the f150 in my avatar pic, but with an exocage now, my tow rig is a blue and silver f250.
 
Good enough!... I am also down to 3 wires... same as you. :driver:
I am still debating on trying the knock sensor... if it doesn't work right I can easily snip it off and bypass it... I'm just one of those guys who has to find out for himself. :handed:

We are planning on coming out to The Flats tomorrow... in the car (beige Camry)... I will look for you.
 
what is the issue with not making the knock sensor work? Is there not a good place to screw it into the block? i recently did the swap on an amc 401 and it works awesome.
 
jeepn-jason said:
what is the issue with not making the knock sensor work? Is there not a good place to screw it into the block? i recently did the swap on an amc 401 and it works awesome.
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The knock sensors are "tuned" to pick up the exact frequency where the block resonates during spark knock. That's with a chevy block. Mine works ok even though a ford 351m is way different from a 350, bit they aren't as different as a 4.3 to a jeep straight six block would be, I'd think the frequency of the knock would be way different in that case.
 
Went out to The Flats today... had a good time... and it was nice to see a lot of my friends! :)

I had some really good TBI conversation with Novacayne75 and Daver Dave... Tim C, I looked for you, but didn't find you. :(

Regarding the knock sensor, Caver Dave showed me it is installed on his brother's Jeep (hope that's right) and it seems to be working OK. After seeing that I am going to go ahead and install it on mine. If I have a problem with it I can easily bypass it. I got a lot of good information and advice. ThanX Guys!!! :beer: :beer:
 
Granny said:
Went out to The Flats today... ... Tim C, I looked for you, but didn't find you. :(

:beer: :beer:
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We got there around 9:30 or 10 I think. But we pretty much went straight to the trails. We got back to the parking lot just in time to load up just before the hill climb competition. I tried looking for you the few times we went through the parking area but didn't catch you. Hopefully we'll meet up in URE soon. We go there about once a month.

Glad you got some TBI tech in anyway!:) It's worth a shot hooking the knock sensor up cause if it works, it'll make running cheaper gas even easier. That and keeping the TBI controlling the factory ford EGR allow me to run 87 octane where I had to run 89 or 93 with the factory carb on my truck.
 
OK... it's running and all seems well, but I am now to a point where I need some guidance. I have searched and read, over and over, but I am still unclear as to the procedure for setting the timing.

After I switched the distributor module to the 7-pin to accomodate the TBI I set the timing at 3° BTDC (that is spec). Now I have installed the TBI and the engine is running again. Do I need to reset the timing again or what do I do next?
 
disconnect the bypass plug in the harness (the 1 wire connector somewhere in your harness) and set base timing to 0 deg. then shut off engine and disconnect battery cable to reset ecm while you reconnect the bypass and then you can reconnect battery and fire it back up. if your engine spec is only 3 deg. then the gm timing may be to much but you wont really know what it wants until it's time for datalogging.
 
Thanks Chris. I can remember bits and pieces of some of what you told me when we were talking at The Flats, but I have tried to absorb so much info, so fast, that I got it all jumbled up. Now that you have told me again I do remember. :)
 
novacayne75 said:
disconnect the bypass plug in the harness (the 1 wire connector somewhere in your harness) and set base timing to 0 deg. then shut off engine and disconnect battery cable to reset ecm while you reconnect the bypass and then you can reconnect battery and fire it back up. if your engine spec is only 3 deg. then the gm timing may be to much but you wont really know what it wants until it's time for datalogging.
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^^Ditto!^^

Congrats on this stage bro! :beer: (NOT a rootbeer!)

The "bypass" is the tan wire w/ black connector...hopefully you didn't bury it in the loom? :lol:
I honestly couldn't get Tater's 258 to run worth fooey with the base set on 0*... 5* was OK, but at Bill's (Hamilton) insistence, managed to get it into the 2*-3* range. Ran like arse until the the bypass was reconnected and settled out nicely after that.
Don't forget to run all the KOEO/KOER tests and the pre-run "setup" too! The "setup" is basically tweaking things like TPS (took FOREVER on Tater's due to crappy brass slotted machine screws), but once it was right, it didn't move.
Once you start logging, keep an eye on the voltage column... "old school" Delco alternators are notorious for "dirty" power (surges/spikes) that is NOT very ECM friendly! Hoping my "new" (from PAP :D) CS-144 bridge rectifier will keep the voltage in check (was getting occasional 20VDC readings from the 10SI)...
 
Thank you sir! :)

Another thing I am a bit confused over is the fuel pump selection. The pumps mentioned on BinderPlanet all have high pressure ratings. My understanding is that I need about 12-15 psi. With that in mind, I bought a Master E8094 which is described as "GM TBI Replacement". It was a bit more expensive, but again, it's specified forGM TBI. Here is the Autozone link: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/_/N-8vcz2?itemIdentifier=21866_0_0_

Since I'm a diehard Linux guy, my ole buddy JC said he is donating me an old laptop that I can put Windoze on and run WinALDL from it. I don't have that yet so I will probably amuse myself with some other things for a while... maybe even sprinkle a litle paint around my "project". :lol:
 
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