Easley protests Bush's plan to sell N.C. national forest land

Trebissky

Active Member
Joined
May 16, 2005
Location
Durham, NC
Charlotte Observer

Charlotte, NC, 03.14.2006
Easley protests Bush's plan to sell N.C. national forest land Paul Nowell

Gov. Mike Easley issued a formal protest Tuesday against the Bush administration's plan to sell nearly 10,000 acres of national forest land in North Carolina, saying "selling our valuable natural land is not the answer'' to the long-term challenge of financing rural schools.

"You are proposing to sell 9,828 acres in North Carolina, or nearly 9 percent of our total National Forest acreage,'' Easley wrote in a letter to U.S. Department of Agriculture Undersecretary Mark Rey and national park officials. "This proposal comes at the very time when North Carolina is in the midst of a decade-long effort to conserve land and add to our system of public parks and forests.''

Last month, the Bush administration proposed the sale of more than 300,000 acres of national forests and other public land to help pay for rural schools in 41 states. The land sales, ranging from less than an acre to more than 1,000 acres, could reap more than $1 billion and would be the largest sale of forest land in decades.

The proceeds would then be used to finance the Secure Rural Schools and Community Self-Determination Act, which was created to help rural counties make up for declines in revenue from timber harvests. The program would be phased out after five years.

The proposed land sale includes 895 acres in the Croatan National Forest, 3,836 acres in the Nantahala National Forest, 2,780 acres in the Pisgah National Forest and 2,317 acres in the Uwharrie National Forest, the governor said.

Environmentalists praised Easley's stance on the issue.

"This proposal does neither the forests nor the rural schools any good,'' said Cat McCue of the Southern Environmental Law Center. "It's a no-win for everybody because all it does is extend the (educational) program a few more years. Then what do you do, sell more land?''

North Carolina has been trying to preserve forest land, not sell it, Easley said.

"This proposal violates all tenets of good public policy,'' he said. "It disposes of valuable, sometimes priceless public resources, removing them from public access for all time to provide a modest, one-time infusion of funds for the ongoing needs of rural schools.''

Easley also said North Carolina would get far less per acre than some other states.

"For example, Oregon and North Carolina both have similar acreages up for sale,'' he said. "But the Bush Administration plan proposes sending more than $162 million to Oregon while North Carolina would only receive $1 million.''

North Carolina would get only $103 per acre, while Oregon would receive $1,539 per acre from the sale, Easley said.

"I look forward to finding other, more sustainable ways to meet the needs of our rural communities without jeopardizing our irreplaceable resources for future generations,'' the governor wrote.

A 30-day public comment period on the administration's proposal ends March 30.
 
Fawk Mike Easley
 
So then, you're actually FOR letting Bush sell off thousands of acres of ground YOU like to ride on? And for only a hundred bucks an acre, too?

Whatever the hell you say, pal.

Oh, and.... who would Dubya be selling it TO? The article doesn't seem to say. Maybe it'd go to a bunch of nice, friendly real estate moguls who want to build housing tracts and strip malls, where all the residents and customers can bitch about the off-roaders right down the hill from them.

Yeh. Fawk Easley. Absolutely.
 
How about we try this thread again, a little more civilly this time?

Perhaps you should start by reading this thread on the subject. It takes a slightly more thoughful approach to the problem than has been demonstrated here so far.
 
Come on SHEEPLE...Get all of the facts and don't ASS-UME you know what Franklin meant by 'FAWK MIKE SLEAZELY' I am sure Franklin doesn't want to see any of the Uwharrie land sold that we ride on. Don't think the land would be sold for $103 per acre. $103 per acre would be the money the state would get back after the money mongers in Washington get their share.

Don't believe everything you think. ;)

<><Fish
 
What happened to mine and the prev posts?

And, yeah, at $100 per acre... put me in for 500!
 
What I THINK is that if this sale does go through, it means exactly 2,317 acres in the Uwharrie National Forest that NONE of us will ever be able to use again. (And no, we won't be able to hold a yard sale and buy it back.)

Hell, I've never had a chance to get out there yet, but I don't want to lose it before I even GET that chance!
 
Trebissky said:
What I THINK is that if this sale does go through, it means exactly 2,317 acres in the Uwharrie National Forest that NONE of us will ever be able to use again. (And no, we won't be able to hold a yard sale and buy it back.)
Hell, I've never had a chance to get out there yet, but I don't want to lose it before I even GET that chance!
Click to expand...

The land that is being talked about is landlocked.. which means YOU cannot get to it...surrounded by private property. The only folks with access to it now are private property owners who have land backing up to it.

Yes..I am for selling land locked properties that are doing zip...

Sam
 
SHINTON said:
Yes..I am for selling land locked properties that are doing zip...
Sam
Click to expand...


Sam, While I agree with that statement alone, I disagree with how those lands got Land locked in the first place.... By the Gov't selling off bits an pieces as they are doing now. I'm affraid it'll happen again.... and again.... and then eventually encroach on to our trails, Historic Sites and Recreational resources.
 
Nothing pisses me off more that a bunch of people who know nothing of what they speak perpetuating gossip and rumor, so RANT MODE ON -

Beg your pardons, but I'd suggest you get the truth about the proposals before engaging conversation. If you haven't been attending the forest meetings and reading the Dept of Agriculture/Forest Service documents, all you have is a bunch of BS from the media and unfounded rumors.

You're all way the hell off-base on what lands are actually proposed for sale, especially in NC, and how the lands got landlocked and became worthless to the forest management system. You obviously have no clue as to how the USFS acquires land and for what purposes. As long as you're depending on the half-truth media and Billy Bob knee-jerk rumors, you'll never understand what's really at stake here.

There is absolutely no truth to the media-fed frenzy and rumor that the Fed is going to sell off anything resembling the diatribe here and what's on the media. There is no proposal to sell any of the contiguous lands except those that don't and never did meet any of the forest management guidelines. What is proposed is just that, a proposal. Each and every parcel will have to be reviewed to determine if it will be suitable for disbursment, and before that happens, I'm sure every uninformed Dick will have his say on the whole affair.

1) Much of what's proposed for sale is land that was acquired for the specific purpose of like/kind exchange or for sale to raise money, not forest management. It is reviewed periodically for suitability to remain in the system. Some of it is purposely acquired to trade to timber companies or other interests for lands that do fall within the desireable guidelines. This is part of the forest plan and has been going on for many decades, but for whatever reasons it wasn't judged as newsworthy.

2) Much of what is proposed for sale is lands that were willed to the US upon death of the owners, and is land that has never, ever been within the criteria for suitable forest management lands. It was retained because some of it could be useful for other purposes, but mostly because there is no legal mechanism for selling any lands, suitable or not, that have been willed in perpetuity to the people of the US. Yes, your USFS has to use your tax money to manage parcels that they cannot legally spend budget money to acquire under the forest management guidelines.

As I stated in a previous thread on this very same subject, the complete ignorance of the public is absolutely astounding at times.

And Mike Easley is just another political shit whose salary we're wasting, and he's enjoying the public's blatant ignorance on the subject of federal lands and policies. He's only concerned that it would be politically unattractive to support a cause that would force him to cough up the free ride money for the schools your state government is currently sucking out of the federal coffers. Bottom line is that the money has to come from somewhere, so for the taxpayer, it's mostly a matter of picking another Peter to rob to pay Paul.

Truth is, if government was doing what government was formed to do, we wouldn't have to sell a damn grain of soil to find money to replace what's already been pissed away on some politicians' frivilous pork barrel bullshit and undeserved entitlement programs. George Bush needs to go looking elsewhere to make up for mismanaged pissed-away money. On that point, I agree with Easley.

RANT MODE OFF -
 
Oh, and I understand that if there are significant archeological sites and geological sites on the specific property, it won't go on the block.
 
wow, great info. guys. ive been wondering what is going on with the land. i know you cant believe everything the reporters say . I dont know jack about it. but i learned a little here. for the most part i think people get so ticked off that a place like this might be getting taken away from them that they are uncertain of whats really going on. i know i was pissed when i seen it on the news. but now i think its more un-likely to happen. whatever were to be sold , the trail areas would probably still have public access. but like i said ,i dont know jack. my 2 cents>> later guys.
 
I'm up to my eyeballs in the whole thing now at Uwharrie, and I intend to stay in it. You've got the old veterans like Scott Fields, Mark Hall, me, and several more from other user groups staying right with the program, so help us out all you can.

Here's the skinny on something that might make us all feel better. The success of the fee based access to the recreation areas like the trails at Badin Lake Rec Area have become the steadiest income producing properties the USFS has. Unlike renewable forest products, the rec areas produce income annually, a bunch of income in fact, and you can bet yer ass the fed ain't gonna cut the throat of the golden goose. The bread and butter income helps get through the renewable resource waiting period and affords them the luxury of some real planning.

Now then, with that said, there may be changes at the Badin trails in the next coupla years, but there will be compensating moves elsewhere. One of those could be the closing of or a rerouting of a portion of Saw Mill and the horse trails in the same area due to a rather serious complaint about projectiles from the firing range falling a bit too close to prominent USFS personnel while on those trails. A rerouting onto the older original trail bed is the preferred method, but there's also the possibility of opening one of the older trails in another area that has been closed for several years if Saw Mill is closed. Maybe both will happen.

Other possibilities are a legitimate ATV bypass route constructed for the hillclimbs on Daniel, a legitimate separate "non-clogging" bypass for Kodak Rock, and the rerouting of portions of Dutch John to eliminate the environmental nightmare of the big hillclimb. Everybody here has to admit the challenge there isn't that great unless you can't drive or it's wet, and that the hill is virtually impossible to stabilize as is. For the newbies in the bunch, that trail cut was only a two foot or on the uphill side with a two foot elevation fill on the right when it was done. Now it's six feet deep.

Whatever happens, the steady income has them thinking of ways to perpetuate that income and to come up with whatever can be done within guidelines to keep us buying those passes. Trust me, one of the side-effects of the heavy trail use is the accompanying surge in income from the campgrounds, and don't think they don't see it. The surge is largely responsible for the reality of the huge upgrade of the boat landing at Arrowhead and the new showers and toilets at Group Camp and Badin Lake Campground

Note: If you don't think the media is a bunch of scum-sucking, half-truth telling assholes, Fox 8 News was seen videoing at the boat landing at Arrowhead. What they were videoing was the lake and the shoreline and the facilities of the landing. Then they went on air with the story while showing the footage of the lake and the landing and of some file footage they had from the past summer seasons. What's important is that the lake and the shoreline aren't even part of the UNF. The lake and the shoreline for one hundred feet inland belong to Yadkin, Inc., a property subsidiary of Alcoa. Included in their footage were pictures of the pristine sections of the Uwharrie River which were also not part of the UNF, and of private timberland that has been logged by private timber companies. Now then, if you hadn't known the truth and you heard that the UNF was for sale and then saw that "news" coverage, how could you be expected to know apple butter from bullshit?
 
radioman said:
how could you be expected to know apple butter from bullshit?
Click to expand...


Apple butter is delicious. :eek:
 
Bruce, please keep us informed. I really appreciate your insight and intelligence on the subject but even more so your reaction to those lacking the latter. ;)
 
thanks for the knowledge
 
Well, the greenies and the mis-informed have pissed me off, and I'll be damned if they're gonna futz up my weekend fun without a damned good fight.;) We've got two meetings and two pre-opening work weekends coming up before opening day, the trails are being groomed as we write here, and progress is being made on future plans, and we will definitely keep everyone informed. What we need is someone to keep up with the goings-on at Tellico, Croatan, Brown Mtn, and other public areas. Since there are so many here that patronize the Uwharrie and Tellico areas, maybe we could have a section on the board for discussion and a sticky for updates on what's happening. Hmm....

Oh, and I hope I didn't PO anybody here for ignorance on these issues during my rant. It wasn't really directed at anyone in particular, it's just the mounting frustration at what the various factions are spewing as fact, when the reality is that no one can expect to know what's actually going on without getting physically, mentally, and socially involved in the processes of public land management. I've decided to do that because I'm tired of being told one thing by one faction and something else by another, and I'm very tired of having my fun threatened by inaction and overreaction. There's probably nothing that can be done with inaction, but if the energy of overreaction can be steered in a positive direction, things can get done. There's not enough time for me to try to work with all the OHV areas, so I'll concentrate on one. I just hope that some of us who are willing can at least be a part of making the Badin Lake Recreation Area better.
 
I definitely appreciate not only the good information, but also your hard work at protecting what we *do* have and enjoy. Thanks!
 
radioman said:
Oh, and I hope I didn't PO anybody here for ignorance on these issues during my rant. .
Click to expand...
I said Fawk Mike Easley:flipoff2: But i have multiple reasons, lottery, saltwater fishing resources, gas tax, ect.
If no one steps forward on Brown Mtn I am positive me or uglyjeepoffroad will volunteer for that. I know several people who live there year round (retired, not mouth breathers:D ) and more that are weekend only people. I am usually up that way 1-2 a month, actually going camping there this weekend.
I just need to know who to contact and any other info needed.
 
SHINTON said:
The land that is being talked about is landlocked.. which means YOU cannot get to it...surrounded by private property. The only folks with access to it now are private property owners who have land backing up to it.
Yes..I am for selling land locked properties that are doing zip...
Sam
Click to expand...
Well, how about THIS, then...
Buy It Ourselves and Build A Road

All that would be needed would be for just ONE of those owners to either sell enough of theirs for a way in, or to just allow an easement like they would for a Utility Company.

After all, what would be the point of ANYONE buying land they can't even get to? But if you COULD get to it...

EDIT: Okay, that was before I read all the other posts that have been added since I was here last. Soo... is that still a feasible, desirable or even necessary option?

I saw, somewhere up there, that a lot of this land was willed to the State in perpetuity. Does that mean the State actually CAN'T legally sell that portion at all? Does it mean it must be preserved as wilderness, not developed?

All I really know about this whole thing is what I've read here or at Muddevils. But I want to know as much as I can about it.
 
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