I decided to check this thread on my phone while at the Mars Fab event, shared the then most recent reply(s) with a couple people that are heavily involved in the work days. We had a nice discussion about it, and I have since then went to dinner and had a little time to relax and think about a reply.
Everyone knows I am a very laid back person, and I usually bite my tongue so to speak in most situations. But I am going to go ahead and state this up front, and keep in mind this doesn't apply to those that all ready have a grasp on what I am about to share. I am going to be blunt and to the point, not going to sugar coat anything replying in the same manner in which I was approached.
There is a whole lot of READY, FIRE, AIM in this thread and frankly in everything I read about FoU...Ive thought about getting involved before but frankly I think it would be a less than optimal use of my time.
It all depends on the perspective of the person. The volunteers that are regularly at the recent work days would probably say its ready, aim, fire. Actually I could almost guarantee that. Because while attending the recent work days (the heavy load and light load ones) allows them to see how things are handled online transfer into what we do on a work day.
I am not even going into my whole thought about US paying to support land that IS OURS to ride. Because that is an argument for another time and place.
Having trails to ride is a privilege, and it takes us helping out to keep that privilege. If you don't believe that take a trip out to Tellico and see how far you get on the trails that you are entitled (or "ours") to ride.
Why should I donate to rent equipment?
I don't know what that equipment will be used for. You saying filling in ruts etc. does not tell me anything. When you dispatch a work force they need specific clear concise instruction. I have seen that exactly ZERO times in any of the FoU topics. Perhaps iff we had a complete list of tasks that NEEDED to be complete we could let EXPERTS who run equipment every freaking day tell us how long it would take and then figure our how much that will cost. instead we have a gut feeling that we need "at least 2 but maybe 5 bobcats" and that costs $1300. Sorry I am not game for contributing to that idea.
I am sorry you feel that my generalized description of our work load isn't enough for you. The fact we will be filling in ruts, cleaning out drainage ditches, removing hazards (rocks, trees, etc), blocking/filling in illegal bypasses, repairing trail erosion, re-graveling parking lots, and more is all we know for absolute. Detailed information like certain issues we will be addressing on Dutch John that aren't confirmed yet aren't relevant until confirmed. And I am not going to wait until I sit down with Deborah and Terry and lay out a map to start planning this work weekend. A project of this magnitude takes advanced planning, and this project won't be scrapped because we waited too long to get things rolling.
When we dispatch a work force, (which would be when we are actually on the work day) we will have an exact plan of action. And as far as seeing this done in past work days, you can't see it if you are not there. Because to put it simply the Forest Service doesn't share the exact locations and in depth details of what we are going to do every work day. They go out and mark the spots that need attention with orange blaze markers (this is called TRAIL INVENTORY). Then Terry Savery sends out a work e-mail (the ones I post up on here) with a generalized description of what we will be doing. Sometimes this email doesn't get out until just a couple days before the actual work day. When we make it out to the work day, we then find the first orange blaze marker and work our way forward. This is the way the Forest Service does work days, and in fact it works very well. If you don't agree with generalized ideas of work loads, etc then its out of my hands. This is a volunteer group working with the Forest Service, this is not a construction company with blue prints and paid workers.
Speak of construction companies lets move on to your comment of
"we could let EXPERTS who run equipment every freaking day tell us how long it would take and then figure our how much that will cost." Well lets count the years here. My family owned a construction company for 10 years. In those 10 years I logged hundreds if not thousands of hours operating equipment (mainly skidsteer loaders, terramites, and other compact equipment). I think I am qualified to make estimates on how much compact equipment it will take.
Lets say you don't agree with my educated estimates, which is purely up to you. You may recall I mentioned that this work weekend will be covering the maintenance that a contractor usually does in the off-season, PLUS what maintenance has been needed after a couple months of heavy traffic. The contractor in the off-season spends a dedicated week of 8 hour days with one piece of equipment doing this maintenance. 2 machines running 2 days-2 1/2 days doesn't come close to making up for the work load of 1 machine for a week. Not to mention that doesn't even cover the additional maintenance that is needed due to usage during the open season. So when I say we need at minimum of 2 machines, to being able to put 5 machines to work its not something I am spewing out the side of my ass.
And for the record the cost of $1,300 only covers the rental of a T190 and T300 for 2 days (16 hours each), and some fuel. The rental company is helping us with the attachments, and other people are flipping the bill of hauling the equipment etc.
Next, lets say you know we have 8 holes to fill in on trail X and 17 holes to fill in on trail Y and 12 pieces of guardrail to install on trails A,B,C and D..do you have a sign off from the FS that we will be allowed to do that once we show up? In the other thread wwe have one person saying we will have carte blanche and another (who I happen to know and respect a great deal as does 99% of this board) saying that is not the case.We/YOU need to get the shit together and have in writing from the FS what NEEDS to be done and what they will ALLOW us to do. Why are we responsible for maintaining trails again?
There aren't any sign offs from the Forest Service. They mark where the work needs to be done, and then we go do it. And a lot of the time we do it without any Forest Service reps being there. Something volunteers that attend the work days all ready know. There has never been anything in writing on what "needs to be done" and "what they will allow us to do". Its a verbal discussion that is held at the Hunt Camp (that is why we have the Hunt Camp meetings, so we can go over verbally in detail what needs to be done) before we head out on the work day. Considering this is a work weekend, there POSSIBLY might be a general list because the work load spans multiple days instead of one. Believe it or not the Forest Service trusts us to use common sense and do the work they ask us. Again, many trips we don't have a Forest Service rep there even. And I can almost guarantee we won't have a Forest Service rep with us the entire time we are working.
I will give a quick run down of how it has went in the past, and will go for the work weekend. The Forest Service gets us all together for a meeting at the Hunt Camp. They will lay out what work needs to be done on what trails. We don't even look at a map usually, actually I don't think we have in the last year or so. We head out on the trails and find the areas marked with orange blaze ties and using the information we were given at Hunt Camp get to work. Even in the case of guard railing we have a ESTIMATED number of railing we will need. Sometimes we have too much, sometimes not enough.
I have my shit together. You have unreal expectations on what the Forest Service will supply us with.
