Heavy Work Weekend #1, June 17-19th ~ PLANNING

Ah, split rail, now that makes since. I was talking about the 6x6 wood rail that was put up last year, not the split rail. No one took that down and it looks awesome.
 
Der_Rock said:
I was talking about the 6x6 wood rail that was put up last year, not the split rail. No one took that down and it looks awesome.
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Yeah, that was put up by one of the contractors. Looks MUCH better and seems to be quite a bit sturdier than the split rail :) I would rather go that route than the metal but I know they get the metal cheaper :(
 
Eli has stated he will be laying out a detailed work plan after his meeting with the Forest Service. I think we can cut him some slack on that for a bit...

Eli, I too questioned the $500 in fuel/tools, but reserved my questions until you had a chance to lay out the detailed plan. There may be additional work that will require tools we don't have/can't find.

To those who had questions about where the purchased tools go. As has been with all tool donations in the past, the tools are for the use by FOU volunteers. More than likely, Eli would keep them at his house and bring them to each work day. In some cases, the tools might be left with Janet @ Arrowhead to be used for other work days and could possibly be used by other clubs doing work throughout the year. Such is the case with "Big Red", the two man auger.
 
cltdba said:
Eli has stated he will be laying out a detailed work plan after his meeting with the Forest Service. I think we can cut him some slack on that for a bit...

Eli, I too questioned the $500 in fuel/tools, but reserved my questions until you had a chance to lay out the detailed plan. There may be additional work that will require tools we don't have/can't find.

To those who had questions about where the purchased tools go. As has been with all tool donations in the past, the tools are for the use by FOU volunteers. More than likely, Eli would keep them at his house and bring them to each work day. In some cases, the tools might be left with Janet @ Arrowhead to be used for other work days and could possibly be used by other clubs doing work throughout the year. Such is the case with "Big Red", the two man auger.
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Is that different from the one we used to put up the guard rail at Kodak? I don't remember it really being two man and usually man handled whoever was hanging on. LOL!
 
I still have 30+ pairs of gloves I purchased to hand out at one of the work days last year.

I can get them to someone headed that way.

I'm going to start a new thread on other issues...
 
ghost said:
Is that different from the one we used to put up the guard rail at Kodak? I don't remember it really being two man and usually man handled whoever was hanging on. LOL!
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Actually, I've not been to a work day where I've had the pleasure of using Big Red. I seem to only make it to the ones where we use the bobcats... :driver: But that's probably the one!
 
I will start off with the $500 estimate. I will be the first to say that is an educated guess at best, and can almost guarantee won't be dead on accurate. I don't know how much fuel we will go through running 2 machines 16 hours each, and I will find out Friday what tools we may need. We may need to rent some kind of smaller power tools, which is why I the $500 amount isn't less (vibratory compactor comes to mind). Most importantly any of the $500 that would possibly be left over, would go directly to fund the next heavy load work day. Which in all reality would be nice, instead of trying to raise money last minute to fund say a Bobcat rental we would have at least some of the funds there all ready.

I keep reading about not mentioning equipment etc until the detailed plans are laid out. There are 2 factors that went into me posting up about equipment and funds before we had a detailed plan:

1) Raising Money. It was looking like we wouldn't have a detailed plan till about a month out, or maybe a little over a month. I didn't want this work weekend to fall through, because we couldn't raise the money needed in a month. To be honest a "Work Weekend" of this scope I think is a new thing for just about everyone. The original idea was to raise money by doing a "Show N Shine" truck show at the Outpost. We really didn't know how we were going to raise the money. So I got the ball rolling early to make sure this whole thing didn't fall apart simply due to funds.

2)Work completed, and work not completed. I decided I would make an educated guess using past experiences in the work days (and taking my knowledge from the family construction company). Specifically how much work we have been able to do with 1 machine, how much work has been done with 2 machines, and how much work hasn't been done over the past years that we would be trying to make up for.

Someone asked for specifics on what hasn't been done over the past years. The v-notch on Daniel is a perfect example, that is filled in every year but hasn't been touched in the last 2-3 years. The illegal ATV bypass hasn't been addressed in years on Daniel. The hill climb on Dutch John has turned into a 5-6 foot deep half pipe because it hasn't been maintained in over 6 years (and it being a half pipe doesn't make it any harder, it just shows how badly eroded it is). Take a look at some of the obstacles and Tellico and you will see the same thing.This is just to name a couple things. With those 3 things we could spend a week working with 2 machines.

Next I will cover hazard rocks. In general that would be a rock outcropping that when traversed can cause dangerous/harmful situations. The rock that is loose on Kodak (the one blocked with 2 boulders) is one of them. That rock is ready to fall off. It would be great to use a hydraulic breaker and bust off what the rock is holding on to, move the boulders, and re-open that line on Kodak.

As far as purchased tools are concerned 99 percent of them stay at Arrowhead in the Forest Service Tool Shed with Janet Becker. The signs/cones we have, plus the 2-man Auger "Big Red" stay there. That is along with the Forest Service tools like post hole diggers etc. The only thing that has been purchased (which wasn't donations but what came out of my own pocket) that I keep with me is the guard rail dragging kit (three 2' chains, with 6 hooks, and 6 d-rings). And keep in mind the tools we buy from donations are available for any volunteers from any clubs to use. We don't consider them NC4X4 or FOU only tools.

Also about the 2-Man Auger "Big Red". We have only had it since mid last year when CORE donated the money to buy it and the red auger bit (hence the name big red). Its a true 2 man auger (the biggest non-commercial auger Earth Quake offers) with a much larger 9" auger bit. The Forest Service augers are "1 man" (in reality it can take up to 4 to operate them) smaller versions with what I am guessing a 6" bit. Big Red is the best thing we have besides when we have a Bobcat.

Lastly as far as the money being handled by one person goes, its the situation I am in and I am trying to make the best of it. Trust me, handling donations and keeping track of where all the money is and is going isn't a fun job exactly. I have to transfer funds that I get in cash/check into my bank account (which means more trips to the bank). Then I have to transfer it into my paypal, and then from there get it to where it needs to be to pay for the rentals.

This also involves meeting up with people and making extra trips (and using gas) to collect funds/make purchases/etc. Which I have no problem doing, I am not going to ask someone to drive to my house to get me their donation. This was the case with the Auger "Big Red". I had to meet the treasurer of the club that bought/donated the money for the auger at Northern Tool. But that is just apart of the deal, I sure as hell wasn't going to say no I won't meet you there so you can buy us a nearly $600 Auger and 9" Bit. And all the while I do this, I keep it all posted in the donations thread so EVERYONE can see where the money goes.

One thing outside of answering questions I would like to point out one thing. To my knowledge this is the first "Heavy Work Weekend" organized in a while, if ever. Its a first for me and NC4X4/FOU I know that for sure. And its a learning process. I just try to take one thing at a time. Keep in mind a lot is riding on me in all this. I presented this as my idea to Rodney at the June work day back in 2010. And the same when I have talked to Deborah, Terry, and others. So if this falls through, or something happens it comes back on me. And considering we have a huge portion of the OHV community involved in this (because this is a Community work weekend, not just a FOU one) that is a big deal.

I am always happy to answer any questions. And I do thank those (especially in the recent replies) that have been supportive with their responses and tried to be constructive with their ideas/concerns/and even criticisms. And the words of thanks go a long way. A big thanks again to everyone making this work weekend possible.
 
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Where ever you see a blue triangle with "!" is an area confirmed for us to be working in June. There are other possible areas that Terry Savery may flag before June, but the major ones are marked.

Dutch John:

2x Areas of Split Rail Fence: There is an area at the bottom of the hill climb, and a camping area near the beginning of the trails that split rail needs to be installed using a Bobcat with an Auger. There may be areas of guard rail install also not yet flagged.

2x Bridge Crossing Repaired/Replaced: There is one bridge that needs to be adjusted and 20 logs added to it. Half of the logs still have to be transported to the location. There is a 2nd bridge that needs to be removed and possibly rebuilt or a culvert installed. Both areas (especially the one with imbed logs) will require equipment work. There may also be areas that need to be worked over with rock.

1x Mud Hole Removal: There is an area of the trail that isn't draining correctly. The "berm" sides of the trail will be dozed down into the center of the trail raising it up to correct drainage. This will be a 2 machine job. There are also other possible areas were drainage ditches need to be repaired/modified.

Rocky Mnt Loop:

1x Bypass Widening: On Rocky Mnt. Loop the bypass around the ledge will be widened. This will take the use of a hydraulic breaker to create a matching slope to extend the bypass to the left, currently are rocks sticking out that will have to be broken up/removed.

There are other drainage issues that may be addressed. Including where there was contractor work done, but it still has turned into a mud hole.

Just about all this work will require closing off where we are working. We closed off parts of Dutch John the past workday, and will be doing the same this workday. I think the longest we had the trail blocked was 45 minutes to an hour. So we will need people directing traffic away from the area, and around the work area when its possible to let people pass.
 
Eli - what is the blue triangle on Slab Pile? If it's a significant piece of work, I can try to get CNC to provide the equipment and a crew for it. Could also combine it with some other work if that one won't take a whole day. We will more likely have a one-day crew - most of us can't do the whole weekend.
 
thecarman said:
Eli - what is the blue triangle on Slab Pile? If it's a significant piece of work, I can try to get CNC to provide the equipment and a crew for it. Could also combine it with some other work if that one won't take a whole day. We will more likely have a one-day crew - most of us can't do the whole weekend.
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The blue triangle on Slab Pile is a water hole that isn't draining correctly. Its the one in the turn with a water bar. They currently don't know how to fix it, because it has been worked on before. I was told they may come up with a plan by the work weekend. It would require equipment if they work out a way to design it to properly drain water.
 
yager said:
Are there GPS cords for these various points ?
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No there are not. No one in our group (Myself, Deborah, Terry, John, and Scott) had a GPS to my knowledge. I know for sure I didn't. Each spot is flagged with a description of the work written on the flag by Terry Savery. The Forest Service will be there with us for the majority of the work, and I will be there for all of it. So someone that knows all the spots being there, plus flagging, etc will be sufficient for the work weekend.

In the future for the "map project" where people will be on their own we will have GPS coordinates.
 
DRaider90 said:
The blue triangle on Slab Pile is a water hole that isn't draining correctly. Its the one in the turn with a water bar. They currently don't know how to fix it, because it has been worked on before. I was told they may come up with a plan by the work weekend. It would require equipment if they work out a way to design it to properly drain water.
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If its the one I'm thinking about at the top of a hill - yes, we drained it on a workday last year, but that required cutting a notch in the water bar. Our solution was to catch the runoff at the next water bar down the hill and let it hit the silt trap there. I guess that didn't work, because someone filled in the cut in the top water bar, making it a puddle again. Would be good to fill in the depression (so no more puddle) and make a silt trap at the top, if we need to.

Is there someone at the FS I should work with - to find out what equipment we need for it? Or just don't worry about it for June?

Is there any other specific area that you would like me to propose that CNC work on instead?

Thanks!
 
I will be doing my best to be out there with the wife since I have yet to make a work weekend and live 10 min away most weekends.
 
Eli, sorry I haven't sent you the money yet, still need money from 2 guys in the group, and I do not have a paypal. Going to try to get it sent to you atleast a week in advance so it can be used toward the rental, if possible I might just give it to Chris at the BDB Event coming up.
 
thecarman said:
If its the one I'm thinking about at the top of a hill - yes, we drained it on a workday last year, but that required cutting a notch in the water bar. Our solution was to catch the runoff at the next water bar down the hill and let it hit the silt trap there. I guess that didn't work, because someone filled in the cut in the top water bar, making it a puddle again. Would be good to fill in the depression (so no more puddle) and make a silt trap at the top, if we need to.

Is there someone at the FS I should work with - to find out what equipment we need for it? Or just don't worry about it for June?

Is there any other specific area that you would like me to propose that CNC work on instead?

Thanks!
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Eli - any info on this? I asked Terry Savery if she had details of equipment needed so I could try to get CNC to rent it, and she replied this afternoon:
"For the mud hole on Slab Pile we'll be reshaping it and rocking it and then guardrailing the bypass ATVs and dirt bikes are taking. I'll send out more details next week."
Hopefully next week she can give more details so we can figure out what equipment is needed and get our volunteers.
 
thecarman said:
Eli - any info on this? I asked Terry Savery if she had details of equipment needed so I could try to get CNC to rent it, and she replied this afternoon:
"For the mud hole on Slab Pile we'll be reshaping it and rocking it and then guardrailing the bypass ATVs and dirt bikes are taking. I'll send out more details next week."
Hopefully next week she can give more details so we can figure out what equipment is needed and get our volunteers.
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Hey, sorry for my delayed reply. I just got the internet at the house turned back on so I have only had my phone to use which is pretty much only good for reading not replying.

That is more information than what I have on that mud hole. We didn't even stop and look at it on our inventory ride, Deborah Walker just mentioned it briefly as we rode through it. Because the general feeling was they didn't know what to do with it. Its good to hear from Terry that she is getting a plan ready to tackle it.

Anything I can tell you would be about the same anyone else coming from a construction business/background could tell you. You guys are going to need something with an FEL (Front End Loader) to do the re-shaping, and an auger for the guard rail. The rock install can be done by hand or the FEL machine. For the amount of grading that needs to be done a Skidsteer Loader or Compact Track Loader will be ideal for the project, I don't know if a tractor with FEL would have the breakout force to do the grading. Considering that is fairly compacted dirt you are talking at least a mid sized skidsteer or CTL. A bucket with teeth is ideal, a 4in1 Combination bucket would be even better.
 
Thanks! I will start with that and see what we find out.

To double-check - is this something that you would need CNC to rent equipment for? Like it's not covered in the equipment you're already lining up?
 
thecarman said:
Thanks! I will start with that and see what we find out.
To double-check - is this something that you would need CNC to rent equipment for? Like it's not covered in the equipment you're already lining up?
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With 2 Bobcats, a T-190 and a T-300 we should be able to tackle this project also. In all reality if CNC rented a machine just for that project I think it may be overkill. Now if CNC wants to rent a machine to do that project and would use it on other projects (possibly on other trails) that could be helpful. Its up to them really, either way we will plan on getting it done.
 
Thanks Eli. CNC won't rent additional equipment for this workday. I'll let you know the number of volunteers we recruit.
 
For those wondering about the money situation it seems my guessing skills on a total were close and off at the same time. I stopped by RS Braswell Bobcat today and the total for the rentals without having to pay for attachments is:

$1,316.97

So the grand total of us needing $1,300 was close. But in that $1,300 I had an allocation in case we needed to rent attachments. So I have updated the totals and bar/tallies.
Our total money raised is $1,360. So subtract the $1,316.97 from the $1,360 and we have $43.03 after just the rental costs. So we have $43.03 so far to go to fuel and any possible attachment costs. The cabin plans have been scrapped.

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