I need an engineers opinion

I thought the Bernoulli principle had to do with fluid flow and pressures associated.

What is there to fail?

Crap, I'm not an engineer.... I'm running away now.
 
Need more info than that but I guess it could be possible if the pressure differential from the pipes interior to the exterior is great enough. However I'm not sure if bernoullis principle fits here if my memory serves me correct since it has nothing to do with the flowing of fluid.

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It does have to deal with flow but I'm not sure how to explain how it doesn't fit in here. Somebody else will have to chime in. I could also be wrong, been awhile since I did anything with fluids.

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shawn said:
Is there poo in the pipe?
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Maybe.

hypothetically speaking let's say there's a large basin of water. water enters said basin at the top. The water exits the basin near the top but slightly lower than the water entering it (gravity system). As the water exits it goes down a pipe. The pipe discharges into a large 72" pipe which then discharges to a basin with a parshall flume to measure flow. Let's say, hypothetically, I dropped the level in the discharge basin (2nd basin) thus creating more velocity through the discharge pipe for a short period of time. What would cause the discharge pipe coming from the first basin to crush inward?
 
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McCracken said:
Maybe.

hypothetically speaking let's say there's a large basin of water. water enters said basin at the top. The water exits the basin near the top but slightly lower than the water entering it (gravity system). As the water exits it goes down a pipe. The pipe discharges into a large 72" pipe which then discharges to a basin with a parshall flume to measure flow. Let's say, hypothetically, I dropped the level in the discharge basin (2nd basin) thus creating more velocity through the discharge pipe for a short period of time. What would cause the discharge pipe coming from the first basin to crush inward?
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negative pressure beyond what the pipe can withstand, assuming it's a closed system.
 
Basin would tell me this is open to atmosphere.

Is the pipe that failed laying on the ground or buried?
 
McCracken said:
What would cause the discharge pipe coming from the first basin to crush inward?
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Sledgehammer, large truck, vacuum.... generally anything generating force on the pipe greater than what it was designed to tolerate will result in failure of the pipe.

HTH
 
CasterTroy said:
Basin would tell me this is open to atmosphere.

Is the pipe that failed laying on the ground or buried?
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basin is open to the atmosphere and the pipe is open to the air on one end (that's what the water overflows in to). The rest of the pipe is underwater.
 
So the end of the pipe at the lower basin is open to air, and the end at the upper basin is submerged?

Or is that backwards, if this is an overflow pipe than the uphill end is open to the air? I guess that depends on rate of overflow.. ..er... flow.

Either way, unless both ends of the pipe are submerged, it would be very difficult to create enough vacuum to crush the pipe with an open system like that. Usually the problem would come from having a certain amount of head from height or whatever, then stopping the flow of fluid. You can either create enough vacuum from fluid mass to buckle the pipe, or a shock wave could possibly do it if the flow is stopped very quickly. I don't see how changing the fluid level in an open basin can satisfy a condition like that rapidly enough to create a problem.
 
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Put the negative pressure in your failed pipe and smoke it :huggy:

Pics needed!
 
Fabrik8 said:
So the end of the pipe at the lower basin is open to air, and the end at the upper basin is submerged?

Or is that backwards, if this is an overflow pipe than the uphill end is open to the air? I guess that depends on rate of overflow.. ..er... flow.

Either way, unless both ends of the pipe are submerged, it would be very difficult to create enough vacuum to crush the pipe with an open system like that. Usually the problem would come from having a certain amount of head from height or whatever, then stopping the flow of fluid. You can either create enough vacuum from fluid mass to buckle the pipe, or a shock wave could possibly do it if the flow is stopped very quickly. I don't see how changing the fluid level in an open basin can satisfy a condition like that rapidly enough to create a problem.
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This is what I think happened.
 
McCracken said:
Say I had a pipe that failed inward. This pipe runs through a tank. Is this the cause of the Bernoulli Effect?
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McCracken said:
Maybe.

hypothetically speaking let's say there's a large basin of water. water enters said basin at the top. The water exits the basin near the top but slightly lower than the water entering it (gravity system). As the water exits it goes down a pipe. The pipe discharges into a large 72" pipe which then discharges to a basin with a parshall flume to measure flow. Let's say, hypothetically, I dropped the level in the discharge basin (2nd basin) thus creating more velocity through the discharge pipe for a short period of time. What would cause the discharge pipe coming from the first basin to crush inward?
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Possibly, but not likely. You have to have enough velocity to create suction, and I'm guessing by the pipe sizes you mentioned that it does not flow with tremendous velocity. The BATF probably crushed your pipe.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Possibly, but not likely. You have to have enough velocity to create suction, and I'm guessing by the pipe sizes you mentioned that it does not flow with tremendous velocity. The BATF probably crushed your pipe.
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Try 27 MGD
 
I'm no engineer but it's all I got?


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