johns thread again

Somebody told me one time Jesus walked on water.
I bet he didn't have cut thornturds.
 
McCracken said:
another question, who wrote the bible?
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Individuals led by The Holy Spirit, lol. My dad was an ordained minister, I'll never forgot my PSGs face when I told him my dads email address when they need it for some next of kin stuff. It was priceless.
 
If you did al your shop yourself, and it passed inspection, then I'd say that is your nitch in this world. Somewhere along the line, you were taught how to do that. My have been someone, may have been from a book. IDK. But the same principle's apply here. Listen to these guys, ask questions. Some of the best builders are on here, and WILL give your guidance. All these other guys are telling you how, and why. How do they know? simple.....They have made the mistakes(like me for example) they have listend to the builders, and they have applied what they have learned. That is something that you don't seem to realize, something that you won't listen to. You argue every point. I myself seem to think that if everyone who posts here, tells you something, can you be the only one who's right? and, every single one of them are wrong? Think about it.
And just for the record, the admin(owner of this board) in not 15, he's 18, and has three awesome kids, and a gorgeous wife. Yeah she's a little older, but not by much.
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
Individuals led by The Holy Spirit, lol. My dad was an ordained minister, I'll never forgot my PSGs face when I told him my dads email address when they need it for some next of kin stuff. It was priceless.
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exactly. the same people that are fallible and are with sin. something to ponder John when you're spouting off.
 
John Fuller said:
hey i think i figured out how to clear my thread....start talking about God and what do ya know....everyone left and no more responses. I guess that does always clear the room!! well, happy sabbath and fathers day weekend folks. Peace
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Or... it's Saturday, and people actually have other things to do that sit around answering your BS talk.

I'm still waiting for a reply to my challenge to you about finding other recent examples of other people being ragged on like this.
 
shawn said:
Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus didn't shit talk?
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In fact I'd say the opposite, Jesus was quite the rebel and challengers, always talking smack to the local religious leaders...
 
dead-horse.gif

I usually don't chime in on these threads but I've read most of them. I just want to say that if your not happy with the site than leave. If you like the site than stay around. Lots of good folk around here.

I've been out of wheeling for several years due to not having time/money to finish my rig. I've met several guys on here through parts swapping and have several friends on here. I ask for help/advice every now and then and always receive it(usually in a matter of an hour or so).

I say all this just to say stop going back and forth with people on stuff. If you post anything to a public forum your asking for opinions. If you don't want or like opinions than don't post anything.

Wish you luck in either direction you choose. But please choose one.
 
upnover said:
I myself seem to think that if everyone who posts here, tells you something, can you be the only one who's right? and, every single one of them are wrong? Think about it.
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i just want to comment on this only: guys please stop thinking it's about me saying you're wrong...i never said you're wrong. Actually i know you're 100%right with how to properly build a control arm. Having that said just as anything else in the world, there are many other ways to do something to get the same outcome and building a square control arms and wrapping it with some thick angle iron which is really strong is also another way of doing something and it's not in disagreement with you...it's just what i've done, what i do and it works plenty fine when considering what the factory junk is made from and look what they hold up to. I don't doubt one bit that your sound advise, professional advise and expertise is right and true and honest but i made some arms that are 10x stronger than stock and in all reality....they would never brake under any circumstance on this jeeps life of what i would put it through. You know and have to admit this as builders: the XJ unibody mounts, leaf mounts, factory crossmember mounts, leaf spring boxes, even upper control arm mounts would give WAY before these arms ever would so that is all my point. i wish everyone would stop thinking I'm calling you out as being wrong cause i don't think that at all. You build crawlers, you build truggies, you build roll cages and axles and all kinds of cool crazy stuff and i respect that very much. I just don't think this control arm is so unsafe and in such danger of breaking and i believe a lot would agree if they really wanted to be honest enough and not just agree with everyone.
new-upper-jk-arms-jpg.184561
that is sleeved with DOM overlapping each side 5"
new lower arms jk.jpg

not the greatest picture but the angle iron overlaps the cut in the arm about 7" and is boxed in with 1/4" angle iron and the original box arms are 3/16" and the bottom part of angle iron as you can see runs almost full length of arm...all is welded along every inch of the seam. I really really am mind boggled to understand how these arms are so "unsafe" and weak when yet they are at least twice as strong as they were and probably 10xstronger than a stock XJ arm could ever be. yet these arms is what makes me such a deuche????i'm lost cause this to me is not that hack of a job at all and others have said same so either that person is full of it (and i know he's not) or u guys are just pickin to be pickin which in that case these 11pages was all for nothin but trash talk.
 
John,
Let me ask you a question.
There are two pieces of metal. Both are the same length. Both are the same thickness. One is flat,one is bent into a semicircle.
Which is stronger with a load applied to the longest side?
Which is stronger with the loiad applied to the shortest side?

Once I hear your answer I will better know how to answer your above question.
 
Ron said:
John,
Let me ask you a question.
There are two pieces of metal. Both are the same length. Both are the same thickness. One is flat,one is bent into a semicircle.
Which is stronger with a load applied to the longest side?
Which is stronger with the loiad applied to the shortest side?

Once I hear your answer I will better know how to answer your above question.
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honestly i really don't know the correct answear to that and would rather spare sounding like a dummy. this is where we get into the Hypathetical mathematics of metals and science but c'mon dude....you know deep down that arm would never give before something else on the jeep would (especially for what i do and will ever do) but go ahead.
 
Jody Treadway said:
But there are some really good woodworkers on here who he could bounce ideas off of. Then the advice given would be taken as criticism and that would be a whole new thread.
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I'm getting the hang of things...
 
John Fuller said:
honestly i really don't know the correct answear to that and would rather spare sounding like a dummy. this is where we get into the Hypathetical mathematics of metals and science but c'mon dude....you know deep down that arm would never give before something else on the jeep would (especially for what i do and will ever do) but go ahead.
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See I think we are getting to the root of the problem right here.
This is not just "hypothetical math of metals and science". It is well-known, established tried-and-true laws of physics and engineering.
The problem is that you seem to treat engineering and physics as though there is a lot of leeway and unknown, and that it's not really possible to be "wrong" about how to do things.
But that is simply not true. There is a wrong way - the way that causes a higher probability of failure is in fact the wrong way.
And yes it is quite easy to know what is the wrong way - based on principles of engineering and physics.
John Fuller said:
Actually i know you're 100%right with how to properly build a control arm. Having that said just as anything else in the world, there are many other ways to do something to get the same outcome .
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This is an example.
You're right, there are many ways that it could be built - but there are NOT many ways that it could be done and still have the same outcome.
Plain and simple.
In this case, physics dictates the strength of the part when a force is applied along its length. And guess what, as the arm lengthens, so does the leverage on the arm - making it MORE susceptible to failure.

There are a lot of guys here who know this because they are engineers by trade and training, they have spent many many many hours of their lives calculating this kind of thing, spent years in training learning how it all works. There are guys who are professional fabricators who have SEEN the results, first hand, of what happens when the fab is not done according to the laws of engineering (applied physics).
I am a smart guy - but I'm not an engineer. I don't have the experience and training of the many folks here that have done it, and seen what happens.
So, I rely on their advice on what does, and does not work.

Do you realize that what you are doing is trying to be an engineer?
 
RatLabGuy said:
The problem is that you seem to treat engineering and physics as though there is a lot of leeway and unknown, and that it's not really possible to be "wrong" about how to do things.
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i don't really call it that...that's going way to fancy with the words. I just use plain jane basic common sense: factory arms = cheap cheap sheet metal and have been lengthened for roughly 12 years never had issue and factory length hold up for 30 years without breaking even off road. JK arms = double the thickness...lengthen with even thicker metal overlapping minimum 7-8" on all sides and welded shut....idk you tell me, don't take metal physicist to figure out which one is going to be stronger. this is my way of thinking and so is for a lot of people...they just are smart enough to not post it up i guess but there's a lot of it out there and been done. moral of the story common sense goes a long way.....and we aren't all building "rock crawlers" to beat the hell out of you know!!! If i was building a "real heavy duty trail machine/rock crawler/buggy",,,....well we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
John Fuller said:
i don't really call it that...that's going way to fancy with the words. I just use plain jane basic common sense: factory arms = cheap cheap sheet metal and have been lengthened for roughly 12 years never had issue and factory length hold up for 30 years without breaking even off road. JK arms = double the thickness...lengthen with even thicker metal overlapping minimum 7-8" on all sides and welded shut....idk you tell me, don't take metal physicist to figure out which one is going to be stronger. this is my way of thinking and so is for a lot of people...they just are smart enough to not post it up i guess but there's a lot of it out there and been done. moral of the story common sense goes a long way.....and we aren't all building "rock crawlers" to beat the hell out of you know!!! If i was building a "real heavy duty trail machine/rock crawler/buggy",,,....well we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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I've seen those stock JK control arms bend like a bitch. Now you're adding a seam in them. Then slapping angle iron over the seam without plug weld to bond them in the center writhing and inch or so of that seam. Your angle iron isn't an fisher plate to add more ridgity to it but a hack job bandaid to help it not split. Hell those ares are maybe 1/8" and kink bent which is why it doesn't take much to bend them fockers. The uppers you made need plug welds because now you've just got butt welds on the sleeve which could pull apart and the tube is still flexing in the center because they are at the most just butt welded together.
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
The uppers you made need plug welds because now you've just got butt welds on the sleeve which could pull apart and the tube is still flexing in the center because they are at the most just butt welded together.
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ik now i wanna learn on this. aren't the factory end links on the upper arms butt welded also therefor creating the same affect of what i did...i'm confused here
 
John Fuller said:
ik now i wanna learn on this. aren't the factory end links on the upper arms butt welded also therefor creating the same affect of what i did...i'm confused here
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From what I've seen they actually pass through and welded on both sides from the factory. But also they are meant for 31" tires at the most. You're running some comp cut thornbirds and that's a pivot point that gets stressed a lot more with the more traction and in my opinion less than optimal gearing.
 
ai552.photobucket.com_albums_jj335_jrhxj1_Mobile_20Uploads_754828_zpszid6jeby.jpg
I don't think this is what you'd call a butt weld.
Not an exact depiction but similar idea.
I'm assuming you mean the bushing sleeves welded to the tube?
 
XJsavage said:
View attachment 190054
I don't think this is what you'd call a butt weld.
Not an exact depiction but similar idea.
I'm assuming you mean the bushing sleeves welded to the tube?
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ok guys yall confusing me now...so is your picture proper joint then...so what you're saying is i need to drill some holes in my upper dom sleeve and plug weld those arms for that extra super security
 
iwaxmyjimmy said:
From what I've seen they actually pass through and welded on both sides from the factory.
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not on all the ones i've taken apart..when i've removed bushings in the past, it's always smooth as whistle on the other side
 
John Fuller said:
not on all the ones i've taken apart..when i've removed bushings in the past, it's always smooth as whistle on the other side
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On jk uppers on the axle side? The bushing on on the axle themselves so you really have no clue wtf you're talking about or what the different kinds of welds you're talking about.
 
no ^^^the bushing side dude. duh
 
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