johns thread again

of course i do but still only welded on just that side therefor similar to me doing it the way i did but i guess plug welding it might be in the future days ahead i suppose....maybe yall won't feel so unsafe around me then LMFAO.
 
So you can weld as good as a Daimler Chrysler robot? Prove it. Please show some X-ray images.
 
Johnn,
I am tired. Ive worked 12+ hours today and am going to do it again tomorrow. I am going to drink a beer, shoot a game of pool with my son and go to bed.
I'm not going to engage a mega debate that you crave.

But let me try to make a point on a leve I hope we can all understand each other.

A given factory piece is engineered, designed and built for its intended application. It is designed with a safety factor. It has to be because if it fails someone will sue and Jeep has big pockets.

So let's pretend the science dictates that a given control arm could see 1,000 units of force in its designed application.
The average US auto maker would use a part designed to withstand likely 2,250 units of force.
Now change the length, angle, direction or use and that 1,000 unit potential suddenly multiplies maybe by a factor of 3x or more.

Now you modify this factory arm and you *think* you strengthen it. The truth is you arm is MUCH weaker than factory. Your extensions are single plane load spreads. Not multi/infinite plane as the factory design. Just because it doesnt fail the first time, or the first 100 times you use it doesnt mean it is adequate and it doesnt mean it isnt failing a little bit every time unbeknownst to you.
"
You keep bragging about 7" of overlap. You dont realize that your design spreads the entire load over this 7" vs the stock design spreading the load over the entire length both radially and laterally. You have created at least 3 (maybe as many as 7 but Id need to disect your creation to state that number) planes of potential failure where the stock design had 1. To compound this problem you have lengthened the lever. You as a self taught mechanic, Im sure you know the power of leverage. A longer pipe on the end of a ratchet equals more power, right? Same thing here. So you are applying more force to a weaker part.

It really doesnt matter that it hasnt failed yet.(let me appeal to the Christian in you) that is akin to someone saying since the Rapture hasnt happened it wont happen. Just because your part hasnt failed yet, doesnt mean it wont. In fact I will go as far as to say it will.

Heck we can even test this.

I'll bring a stock J/K arm. You fab a replica of what you have there. We will load them in a test load vise and see at what point each fails.
If yours wins, I will pay you $1,000 cash. If the stock arm wins you agree to donate the same amount to a Christian charity of the boards choosing. You down to put your money where your mouth is?
 
John Fuller said:
of course i do but still only welded on just that side therefor similar to me doing it the way i did but i guess plug welding it might be in the future days ahead i suppose....maybe yall won't feel so unsafe around me then LMFAO.
Click to expand...

You're getting more surfaced covered when it is fitted around the barrel then just butting them up to each other and running a bead around it. And honestly your welds aren't that impressive either so it's another concern. And just looking at how little prep you did with the lowers is kinda creepy. I'm not a pro fabricator though so I might have no clue what I'm talk
Ing about but I also don't build hacked together stuff.
 
88xj LCAs-1-1.jpg
Don't forget that if a proper weld is not used, then it will fail before anything!!

That is a far cry from even a decent weld! Not trying to talk smack, just saying I wouldn't trust that to hold anything!
 
Tell the truth, you welded that pic above your post didn't you?
 
krehel24 said:
View attachment 190057 Don't forget that if a proper weld is not used, then it will fail before anything!!

That is a far cry from even a decent weld! Not trying to talk smack, just saying I wouldn't trust that to hold anything!
Click to expand...


Then adding to this, you've got a want to be radius arm going on here, you're adding so much torsional force on your angle iron that doesn't fit up snug around the arm at all so there are some huge gaps there. Plus those stock JK bushings are probably screaming their ass off right now when you flex. They aren't adjustable so hopefully you nailed the pinion angle and caster split first time go. Wonder how much torsional load you're putting on those arms and the axle tubes when flexing. Wonder if the caster is set the same on both sides. That's just a death trap and I'd hate to see it on the highway. Sorry I'm pretty blunt about stuff sometimes but dude I've been fabing/welding for about 2 years and mine comes out so much damn better than that boogier turd. Granted I've got more mechanical skills than fab after working at a dealership doing heavy line work for 5 years, but what the hell dude. God that looks horrible.
 
heres the welds on my uppers...
upper arm welds.jpg

and i keep telling yall I didn't use those arms...theywere something to get my pinion angles right and axle centered...drove it to my friend to more sets he had for me then came home and redone new ones that i've shown you.
 
Ron said:
I'll bring a stock J/K arm. You fab a replica of what you have there. We will load them in a test load vise and see at what point each fails.
If yours wins, I will pay you $1,000 cash. If the stock arm wins you agree to donate the same amount to a Christian charity of the boards choosing. You down to put your money where your mouth is?
Click to expand...
I'm gonna do this on my own. i have factory xj arm, factory jk arms, and my hacked up arm and the current arm on the jeep. I will make a video of me taking a 20lb sledge to all of them this week until there is nothing left of each arm and we will see what's so weak and strong. i will pound them to hell at the factory joint welds, bushing ends, middle, and then pound at the welds i made and the angle iron and we will ALL see (including me) what's so strong and so weak. I'm looking forward to this...this is gonna be fun
 
:shaking:
 
^^^^^ well dam
 
Stock control arms bend if you look at them the wrong way.

But duder is (sort of) right about one thing: as hack as his arms may be, the lower control arm brackets will rip off the tube before the arm buckles. Although both may happen at the same time.
 
Sorry... Had to chime in here..... So you're saying that you're going to test them with the proven accuracy of the 20# sledgehammer method.... Well I'm sure that is going to give the end all results that will shut everyone up. I just wanted to make sure I was clear on what you said.......





Carry on......
 
shawn said:
That bullshit with the sledgehammer doesn't prove anything, though. That's not how destructive testing is done.
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ohh then whats the right way? jack the vehicle up on them
 
John Fuller said:
ohh then whats the right way? jack the vehicle up on them
Click to expand...


Ron said:
Heck we can even test this.

I'll bring a stock J/K arm. You fab a replica of what you have there. We will load them in a test load vise and see at what point each fails.
If yours wins, I will pay you $1,000 cash. If the stock arm wins you agree to donate the same amount to a Christian charity of the boards choosing. You down to put your money where your mouth is?
Click to expand...
 
oh well i'll pass then since i would be total moron to waste 1000 of my family's money on such wasteful tests...i think i will continue to take my chances after 15 years of doing my own arms and i will go by this point someone made also::
shawn said:
But duder is (sort of) right about one thing: as hack as his arms may be, the lower control arm brackets will rip off the tube before the arm buckles.
Click to expand...
 
Just picking here for fun, nothing personal John...



I'm going to take one of your welded control arms and my nephews rubber ball and test them with a 20# hammer. After test, whichever held up best must be stronger!
 
shawn said:
That bullshit with the sledgehammer doesn't prove anything, though. That's not how destructive testing is done.
Click to expand...
Bingo
John Fuller said:
ohh then whats the right way? jack the vehicle up on them
Click to expand...
Again like I said before, this easily dictated by physics and engineering. No mysteries here.

Ron already laid it out for you...
Ron said:
I'll bring a stock J/K arm. You fab a replica of what you have there. We will load them in a test load vise and see at what point each fails.
If yours wins, I will pay you $1,000 cash. If the stock arm wins you agree to donate the same amount to a Christian charity of the boards choosing. You down to put your money where your mouth is?
Click to expand...

Testing the failure limit of metals is a well-established process that has been done for over a century. No magic.
Even if not testing to failure, if the goal is the replication of real-world handling, then you add a load that replicates the forces it could actually see.

How much force could you poissble apply wit ha 20 lb sledge? 100 lbs? Lets say you are a really strong fucker and can swing it up to 200 lbs.
How much is the force it actually sees? Lets do some math. Lets say you're just "resting" the vehicle on the arm, and it's even supported elsewhere. Truck weighs, what, 4500 lbs? Thats 2250 lbs on your arm. Now lets say you are dropping/banging it on a rock, you have the upward force from the drop, that will multiply this depending on height/speed etc.

The point is your 20 lb sledge will get nowhere close.

This is basic Engineering 101. Once again, you don't seem to accept the fact that what you are doing is engineering, without actually going through teh steps of doing it properly.
 
John Fuller said:
oh well i'll pass then since i would be total moron to waste 1000 of my family's money on such wasteful tests...i think i will continue to take my chances after 15 years of doing my own arms and i will go by this point someone made also::
Click to expand...

Not sure where this "1000" comes from? I'm pretty sure we could make the testing itself happen for free from somebody else here that hast he equipment. The educational value of doing it alone is worth the effort. Video it for YouTube, share with the world.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Thats 2250 lbs on your arm. Now lets say you are dropping/banging it on a rock, you have the upward force from the drop, that will multiply this depending on height/speed etc.
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i got your whole point,..i get it i get it. and btw, i've already dropped it on the arm several times lol on Easy st and i posted that where my 2x4 crossmember got good dent in it but the arm held up fine and my dubmass did it like 3 times before i finally learned to drive over it properly lol so my factory crossmember dented...my 2x4 crossmember for long arms dented....the arms got scratched from landing and dragging on the boulder...point made. my arms are plenty strong enough for my jeeps' needs. (the guy who was guiding me the first time could vouch for this as he laughed his butt off when i did it lol)
 
John Fuller said:
i got your whole point,..i get it i get it. and btw, i've already dropped it on the arm several times lol on Easy st and i posted that where my 2x4 crossmember got good dent in it but the arm held up fine and my dubmass did it like 3 times before i finally learned to drive over it properly lol so my factory crossmember dented...my 2x4 crossmember for long arms dented....the arms got scratched from landing and dragging on the boulder...point made. my arms are plenty strong enough for my jeeps' needs. (the guy who was guiding me the first time could vouch for this as he laughed his butt off when i did it lol)
Click to expand...

Wait you've been welding/fabbing for 15 years and this is to best work you've done?
 
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