Lots of interesting news today

obullfish said:
At this point it’s a lose lose situation and I feel sorry for the honest good cops that do the job for all the right reasons. I will not blame any cops that walk away from the career they devoted their lives to.
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I think all cops should put in for two weeks leave right about now.

Just say shit, sorry, I'm sick, my kid has COVID, I need to mow my lawn, whatever the fuck...

Just don't show up on the streets.. 911, sorry we are experiencing unusually high call volume. Please press 9 and we will investigate the action after it has occured...

Once people look at our leaders and say, enough put the blue guys back in, they can come off leave and do their job.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
we will investigate the action after it has occured...
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That's basically the ways it's always been for the most part. Correct? I mean sometimes they get lucky and can be where they are needed right then, but that's kinda rare.

My safety and the safety of my family are my responsibility. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.
 
drkelly said:
And they are pushing for the officer to be fired. So the Police cannot defend themselves now? He was supposed to stand there and allow himself to be tazed? I predict a lot of cops turning in their badges and finding new careers.
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The dude was running away from them, and had a taser, which is a limited reach weapon. I don't think the use of deadly force will be justified in this case. Will charges be filed? Maybe. Will he lose his job? Probably.

Duane
 
The whole mess has just taught a whole mass of people hate is rampant. Its all we are getting out of this mess.
Right or wrong law enforcement in mass should just walk out.
 
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drkelly said:
It could have been a gun. Dark, heat of the moment.
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It could've been, except he took it from a cop while they were trying to arrest him, so they knew what it was. Saw this morning where the cop has been fired.

Duane
 
mommucked said:
UNCW students upset over 'all lives matter' comment made by chancellor :: WRAL.com

:shaking:
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So the "BLM" response was:
"“Although we too believe that all lives matter, our Chancellor must realize as well as those who think the same that all lives can’t matter until black lives matter,”
“We cannot and shall not support a university whose leadership cannot stand with us, because this is not just a movement; this is a fight for our lives. Just know, we are aware, we are listening, and we are active. The Revolution is here.”"

Sounds like hate speech or something. Maybe they need to act in line with NC State and deaccept those students.
 
jcramsey said:
What happens if dude tases cop and gets his gun?
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But you can't judge on the what ifs. What if taking the taser was just a protest? What if the cop was a Democrat?

My opinion is as follows:
1. We don't have all the facts yet.
2. The (presumably black) store management felt compelled to call the police on the guy based on his actions.
3. The guy chose to escalate the situation instead of complying.
4. The guy "only took his taser", which is completely irrelevant because A. In the heat of the moment the cop might not know that, B. The suspect probably didn't know that it was just a taser, and C. The suspect forcibly took a weapon from the cop (would it be OK if he just stole the cops flashlight and then beat the cop with it?)
5. The pursuing officers did not fire until after the suspect turned and tried to "shoot" them.

Keep in mind ALL of that happened within 10 seconds or so. So every decision for each party is made at full adrenalin with no time for contemplation and evaluation.
 
obullfish said:
Atlanta police chief just resigned due to this event. WTF does that solve?
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It solves the fact that a moderate liberal will not take further blame for being ineffective at dealing with the crisis from either the right or the more radical left. The Portland police chief did the same thing.

I don't want to stereotype them but they both appear to be white female police officers that were appointed to their positions by liberals trying to enhance community policing. Because they can't execute their duties and meet a liberal agenda they see the writing on the wall for their own careers and are walking away.
 
jeepinmatt said:
So the "BLM" response was:
"“Although we too believe that all lives matter, our Chancellor must realize as well as those who think the same that all lives can’t matter until black lives matter,”
“We cannot and shall not support a university whose leadership cannot stand with us, because this is not just a movement; this is a fight for our lives. Just know, we are aware, we are listening, and we are active. The Revolution is here.”"

Sounds like hate speech or something. Maybe they need to act in line with NC State and deaccept those students.
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Who ever said black lives don't matter? So many of these people are so smug to the point that they don't care about anyone that is not black.Meanwhile they kill each other more and more everyday.
 
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drkelly said:
Could have had his own gun.
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He could have, but he wasn't holding it. He was holding the taser. He "could have" done or had a lot of things, but it's hard to justify deadly force on a man running away by what he could have done.

jcramsey said:
What happens if dude tases cop and gets his gun?
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If he had been running toward the cops with it and they shot him, or even just standing there pointing it at them, that would have been different. But he was running away.

jeepinmatt said:
4. The guy "only took his taser", which is completely irrelevant because A. In the heat of the moment the cop might not know that, B. The suspect probably didn't know that it was just a taser, and C. The suspect forcibly took a weapon from the cop (would it be OK if he just stole the cops flashlight and then beat the cop with it?)
5. The pursuing officers did not fire until after the suspect turned and tried to "shoot" them.

Keep in mind ALL of that happened within 10 seconds or so. So every decision for each party is made at full adrenalin with no time for contemplation and evaluation.
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The cops might not have been aware of what the suspect had, but it was a bright yellow taser, and it was one of theirs. They should have been aware. As for the flashlight, if he had taken the flashlight and just threw it behind him as he was running would that have warranted deadly force? That is going to be the crux of the encounter: the suspect was running away with a less than lethal weapon, and was killed. We can "could have" and "heat of the moment" and whatever it to death, but given the evidence presented so far it appears to me that deadly force will be hard to justify. I'm not saying it won't be as the investigation continues.

Duane
 
CLRracer said:
He could have, but he wasn't holding it. He was holding the taser. He "could have" done or had a lot of things, but it's hard to justify deadly force on a man running away by what he could have done.



If he had been running toward the cops with it and they shot him, or even just standing there pointing it at them, that would have been different. But he was running away.



The cops might not have been aware of what the suspect had, but it was a bright yellow taser, and it was one of theirs. They should have been aware. As for the flashlight, if he had taken the flashlight and just threw it behind him as he was running would that have warranted deadly force? That is going to be the crux of the encounter: the suspect was running away with a less than lethal weapon, and was killed. We can "could have" and "heat of the moment" and whatever it to death, but given the evidence presented so far it appears to me that deadly force will be hard to justify. I'm not saying it won't be as the investigation continues.

Duane
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I guess this lays out the problem. From my experience with rules of engagement and threat escalation (24 years in the Army), if a man who is acting as a belligerent engages you in a potentially deadly manner, disengages, and then turns to point something at you, you engage. You do not question, you do not hesitate, not if you want to go home to your wife.

@Wes has far more experience and training at this. But I would say I have about the same level as your average beat cop. I also have had to look at things from a safety standpoint when only seconds were available to assess crew actions on helicopters. So, I can see it from the point of view that the team had to make a call. They made it based on wanting to live through the 10 second engagement. The call resulted in a dumb man dying. The timing sucks. But it was a justified engagement
 
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jeepinmatt said:
So the "BLM" response was:
"“Although we too believe that all lives matter, our Chancellor must realize as well as those who think the same that all lives can’t matter until black lives matter,”
“We cannot and shall not support a university whose leadership cannot stand with us, because this is not just a movement; this is a fight for our lives. Just know, we are aware, we are listening, and we are active. The Revolution is here.”"

Sounds like hate speech or something. Maybe they need to act in line with NC State and deaccept those students.
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This. What is the word polarized?? Nah! When your personal agenda over rides all others, when your king, when you subject others to your ideology, when no one else is important til your grievance is equalized or payback in full plus some, when you celebrate yourself, when you isolate and demand special preference, when you deny others the right to participate.......well your also a racist.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
I guess this lays out the problem. From my experience with rules of engagement and threat escalation (24 years in the Army), if a man who is acting as a belligerent engages you in a potentially deadly manner, disengages, and then turns to point something at you, you engage. You do not question, you do not hesitate, not if you want to go home to your wife.

@Wes has far more experience and training at this. But I would say I have about the same level as your average beat cop. I also have had to look at things from a safety standpoint when only seconds were available to assess crew actions on helicopters. So, I can see it from the point of view that the team had to make a call. They made it based on wanting to live through the 10 second engagement. The call resulted in a dumb man dying. The timing sucks. But it was a justified engagement
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Whether LEO should be trained to the level of the military is a pandora's box for another day. I'm not LEO or military, and I also won't speculate on what I would do as one in that situation. But if he is charged and goes to trial, the "jury of his peers" most likely will also not be LEO or trained as such. I get the "go home" mentality, and I have a lot of friends who are LEO who have said they would've done the same. But from the outside looking in or from my little bubble or high tower or whatever cliche you want to use, in my opinion this one wasn't as clean as it should've been.

Duane
 
100% Agree on it was justified. I'm sorry dude turned and fired a weapon that could incapacitate an officer and allow the perp to obtain the officers firearm. Yes, its a what if, but he has already stolen one weapon, wouldn't be too difficult to steal another. This is an open and shut case.
 
87TPIYJ said:
100% Agree on it was justified. I'm sorry dude turned and fired a weapon that could incapacitate an officer and allow the perp to obtain the officers firearm. Yes, its a what if, but he has already stolen one weapon, wouldn't be too difficult to steal another. This is an open and shut case.
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If you're gonna play What If, then at least consider the important facts that affect that future scenario.
The cop wasn't alone. There were two there. So even if he DID incapacitate one, from several feet away AND THEN made a lunge for the the cops gun, dont you think the other would definitely shoot him then?
It just seems like a real stretch to even see the perp getting his hands on a lethal weapon.
 
I’m not saying it was justified or it wasn’t, but I’ve always wanted to try and take a gun from a cop in front of me in a line just to see if I could. You know they got all them fancy holsters where your not suppose to be able to. BUT IM NOT STUPID it’s a lose lose.
You go for it don’t get his gun your getting shot or beat. You get his gun your getting beat or if he has a backup gun getting shot. He’s not going to wait and see if you give it back. I would completely expect if I reached for his gun to get shot and the cop to think it was justified he doesn’t know my intentions.


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