My answer to safer schools

RatLabGuy said:
You said the SCDs ARE teachers.They will be..I just took your post to mean let all teachers get armed. Only SCD'S can be armed

Keep in a secret? Great theory. Example..Pres. Obama spoke in CT. Everyone knew the secret service was there and ARMED. But I bet noone could ever detect EVERY armed Secret Service member. The ''secret'' lies in the training. Just like the S.S. training or cia,fbi. There'll be an oath.
Now lets think of a small town like.. .say... Mocksville.... How many "secrets" are there really that last?none, probably..but keeping this secret will be detrimental to job security..ITS JUST THAT DAMN IMPORTANT. Come on, in schools there's nothing that spreads faster than the slightest hint of a secret, be it true or not. So what do you do when the secret gets out that scary ol' Ms. Wiles is packin' heat? It depends on if the secret is only rumor..ignor and it'll go away..or if the teacher was showing off..or claiming to be a SCD to wow the cute teacher in the next class...this will be a major part of the training. Yes..a teaching job can be lost if the SWORN SECRET CAMPUS DEFENDER lets the cat out of the bag. Take it away and train somebody else? This training won't be cheap to do properly.True...but isnt it worth it? Your kids are your life right? [/quote]
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just as much emphasis, will be placed on secrecy during training, as there will be on target practice...maybe even more.
 
i hear what you're saying, i've had the same sort of thoughts lately to be able to make schools less of a soft target. the main problems i see with this is getting it enacted with the current liberal gun hating crowd. the other problem is always maintaining control of weapons-you're dealing with the human factor and mistakes or accidents can (and will) be made.
the other solution i've come across for schools is making pepper spray and non lethals available to the faculty, it's not an instant solution, but it can incapacitate the individual long enough to overwhelm him and limit casualties. it's non lethal, so it would stand a chance from a legislative perspective and even an accident with kids would not be fatal.
Another possibility i've come up with is that most schools already have a school resource officer on site. Why not better utilize this capability and expand their role to a K9 function?? Even if you have a gun in hand, a properly trained dog will make your life hell unless you get lucky. On a side note, this could have a dual role for drug detection and deterrence in the school.
 
ratlab...the teacher keeping his/her "arrangement" under wraps is part of the extra classes, range requirements expressing to them the importance and the fact that there is no room for accidents, an accident is still a better outcome than a decimation in a hallway....just sayin


flatblack....dogs is another good idea, but would get spun the wrong way, the amount of illegal searchs and frisks would be through the roof ultimately turning the nations school system into a ultra super low security prison, in either case the kids in our kids are loosing more rights than we are.....and non lethals......well they just cant shoot an arc quiet like a 9 does, doesn't travel as far, and half these people doing these shootings have some form of gas mask in or on their "tactical coward suit" which would make pepper spray useless for anything except breaking up a fight
 
flatblackzj said:
i hear what you're saying, i've had the same sort of thoughts lately to be able to make schools less of a soft target. the main problems i see with this is getting it enacted with the current liberal gun hating crowd.This is the big problem...they seem to lack the ability to even listen to reason. THIS CAN WORK. the other problem is always maintaining control of weapons-you're dealing with the human factor and mistakes or accidents can (and will) be made.I cannot deny this..accidents will happen..its the premeditated mass killings I want to stop. Id trade a few (across the board) accidents over mass shootings any day. We shouldnt let the ''possibilities of accidents'' argument get in the way of a much bigger picture.
the other solution i've come across for schools is making pepper spray and non lethals available to the faculty, it's not an instant solution, but it can incapacitate the individual long enough to overwhelm him and limit casualties. it's non lethal, so it would stand a chance from a legislative perspective and even an accident with kids would not be fatal.This is fine and dandy...should be in place already. But we are after the few good men or women ,that we hope never need to use their training, to stop the 3rd 4th or 20th kid from dying. As stated earlier, we cant stop the surprise attack..someone has to die..lets make it ok to have a ''limiting factor''SCD
Another possibility i've come up with is that most schools already have a school resource officer on site. Why not better utilize this capability and expand their role to a K9 function?? Even if you have a gun in hand, a properly trained dog will make your life hell unless you get lucky. On a side note, this could have a dual role for drug detection and deterrence in the school.[/quote/] This is America..home of the free. I dont want our children to feel imprisoned at school. Resource officers are still needed. school fights,smoking in the bathroom,pot in the parking lot, drinking in the boiler room, violent kids, kids hitting teachers, bullying...lots of need for SRO's. But none of which will require the SCD to reaveal him/her self..no reason for them to even leave the classroom. ONLY when someone opens fire on/in the school will the SCD leap into action.
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boatedwagon said:
i have a good feeling that a teacher can do a better job than the G O V when it comes to handling firearms and secrets.......Fast and Furious ring a bell?
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AH..the gov. is full of secrets. You'd never know secret servicemen were implanted in your town 5 weeks before the pres. arrives. And our soldiers are proof that government firearms training kicks ass.

I feel your sentiment..but in reality....
 
actually its easy to tell when they show up, i live around raleigh and everytime BO came random people popped up on top of most of the buildings around here, i do commercial HVAC on roof tops and have witnessed that, and i must say we do train phenomenally in firearms, and well yea cant deny they have secrets, its everyday we find out they cant keep them though.
 
I like your idea Dylan in theory but Im afraid there too many moving parts and too long of an extended timeline for it to work effectively.
To use the old KISS logic, I think this is a more effective and immediate solution that I stole from a members Facebook.

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EdJonesJeeper said:
I like your idea Dylan in theory but Im afraid there too many moving parts and too long of an extended timeline for it to work effectively.
To use the old KISS logic, I think this is a more effective and immediate solution that I stole this from a members Facebook.

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Nice.
 
Edjonesjeeper, I cant deny thats a great idea.Start them asap. My only response would be..He cant stand outside in front..he'll be the first target..he cant hide inside in uniform, the kids will see him as armed guard in school..(which may be fine) but it will certainly play into the minds of students. In my scenario, i hope to keep the kids minds on ''other than'' school shootings and defenders and soldiers and guns and...you see where Im going?

But In no way would I deny having a soldier at the schools, Its better than a ''NO FIREARMS ALLOWED ON THIS PROPERTY SIGN''

Id assume the retired soldiers would require being paid, after all, they'd need to stand or be there all day.. In my scenario A SCD would not need pay....they're already there getting paid.

As far as the timeline and moving parts go...you gotta start somewhere,sometime. Teachers have a lot of down time every summer...Training starts soon after graduation...THIS YEAR! Just dont see this point as being a deal stopper. At least it shouldnt be.
 
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I could get on board with this idea.
 
Dylan W. said:
Edjonesjeeper, I cant deny thats a great idea.Start them asap. My only response would be..He cant stand outside in front..he'll be the first target..he cant hide inside in uniform, the kids will see him as armed guard in school..(which may be fine) but it will certainly play into the minds of students. In my scenario, i hope to keep the kids minds on ''other than'' school shootings and defenders and soldiers and guns and...you see where Im going?

But In no way would I deny having a soldier at the schools, Its better than a ''NO FIREARMS ALLOWED ON THIS PROPERTY SIGN''

Id assume the retired soldiers would require being paid, after all, they'd need to stand or be there all day.. In my scenario A SCD would not need pay....they're already there getting paid.

As far as the timeline and moving parts go...you gotta start somewhere,sometime. Teachers have a lot of down time every summer...Training starts soon after graduation...THIS YEAR! Just dont see this point as being a deal stopper. At least it shouldnt be.
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You have a good heart Dylan.
 
boatedwagon said:
actually its easy to tell when they show up, i live around raleigh and everytime BO came random people popped up on top of most of the buildings around here, i do commercial HVAC on roof tops and have witnessed that, and i must say we do train phenomenally in firearms, and well yea cant deny they have secrets, its everyday we find out they cant keep them though.
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The idea of a SCD will not and should not be a secret. In fact..lets post billboards,tv adds..even a large sign at every school. 'This school is armed with SCD's''.

Guess what..the sign itself, or the idea of armed schools will be responsible for a certain percentage(probably high) of detering would be mass shooters.

SCD's inside? Hell, If I wanna kill a lot of folks..I know thats not where Im going. So boom...the schools fall off the list of favorite places to kill lots of innocents. The policy works without firing a shot in defense..And that the main beauty of it!
 
Dylan W. said:
^^ cant deny thats a great idea. My only response would be..He cant stand outside in front..he'll be the first target..

Id assume the retired soldiers would require being paid, after all, they'd need to stand or be there all day.. In my scenario A SCD would not..they're already there.
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Standing out front is the whole idea. Keeps him away from kids and the first target to see thus being a deterrent.


And I would think an SCD would want to be paid more for the responsibility. But Maybe not.

When I was in high school we had an armed police officer everyday that hung out mainly in the front lobby. After a while he became just part of the scenery. I'd like to think that I had a somewhat normal high school experience;)
 
redneckcj5guy said:
You have a good heart Dylan.
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Thank You! And I have a 7 year old and a two year old. They give me my heart. This latest shooting has really really stirred emotions that I have never felt.

Ive read ''guns dont kill people, people kill people'' and stuff like that till im sick of it. These sayings are so true..it starting to remind me of the folks who cry that wrestling is fake...lol Duh?..but cant we go a little beyond a very meaningful,simple saying?
 
EdJonesJeeper said:
Standing out front is the whole idea. Keeps him away from kids and the first target to see thus being a deterrent.Could go either way..adding a soldier to the ''I just ambushed and killed 20 kids and a soldier that was looking the other way'' list would only add to the infammy and make it even worse than the last shooting. Now I can also see this working in the WAY better than nothing category. However, if the potential school shooter did know the soldier was there...planned a little better( seems most if not every mass school shooting has been premeditated) then shot the soldier..The Soldier then would have essentially caused the shots to be fired/heard a little earlier than usual...Now the SCD has even more time to react. Again...In a surprise attack..some will die. This scenario possibly places an Honorable Soldier as the first to die.

And I would think an SCD would want to be paid more for the responsibility. But Maybe not. It'll be in the fine print on the application...NO PAY. The applicants that rise to the top and make the list..WONT expect pay. Such as a vol. fireman who does his job out of sense of duty and to help others.

When I was in high school we had an armed police officer everyday that hung out mainly in the front lobby. After a while he became just part of the scenery. I'd like to think that I had a somewhat normal high school experience;)
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When I was in highschool, we didnt have police there unless someone was in bad trouble..I agree..sro's became part of the NORM. But everyday when you saw the officer..ask yourself if some or all of the following thoughts entered your mind:
he'll arrest anyone caught with drugs!
He''ll arrest anyone fighting or assaulting anyone!
If I skip school in the football stadium..he'll bust me! He will bust anyone caught drinking..smoking.. or ASS GRABBING..

Did you ever look at him and think MASS SCHOOL SHOOTING and deal with the accompanying images and fears related to that? I want this idea to slowly fade from my childs mind..not have to think about it everytime they see the Soldier out front.(this may be impossible idk)

by the way my caps lock dont mean yelling..lol
 
kaiser715 said:
good read.... http://www.policeone.com/active-sho...ol-Dave-Grossman-to-cops-The-enemy-is-denial/

edit: couple of things don't make good sense to me...1) popping smoke in a school & 2) using FD as an offensive tactic
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That is very good reading. . The fire alalogy is spot on. Very true also, denial is a major problem. This Goes for me too, I dont want the kids thinking about school shooters which =denial on my behalf to an extent.

smoke in the school ,I think, would just be a smoke screen to help one move to a better location undercover..
dont really see a FD water hose helping quickly enough..

Keep a cop in school, just add several SCD's for that same double quadruple redundantcy as the fire ext..the fire alarm, the fire proof walls, the fire dept down the street.
I liked that article.
 
Grossman is very well spoken-check out the date on this 2010-we've been sitting on our thumbs for years. he's right about the multiple layers, not relying on just one magic pill to fix everything, very cool link.
 
Alot of the multiple layers cost money..when those layers were being applied, moeny wasnt as bid of an issue as it is now.

Remember the SCD's are basicly free after training. Just trying to keep the would be '' it'll cost to much money'' naysayers at bay..take the money out of the equation and they have to find another idiodic way to deny that SCD's are the best all around option.
 
I like the ideas going around. I'm all about it. Responsible gun toters are the key, I believe. If they were serious enough to make the final cut, they would certainly be dedicated enough to keep it a complete secret. I know I would.


I also think we need a media ban. The founding fathers never knew we would have mass media and communication like we do now. It's just getting rediculous. I want real news, not just the stuff that makes ratings and money. If a principal in MS stopped a kid with a .45 he had in his car, tell me (true story, btw, that you'll NEVER see on tv). Don't just tell me about some depressed, white supremicist, that shot up a bunch of Muslims because his daddy never hugged him as a child. I could give a rats ass. Send him to Texas, they'll hang him, and I'll sleep just fine.

I have a very realistic view on things. I have compassion for many things, yet others none at all. Don't use a gun to scare somebody, it should only be revieled if you intend to use it!
 
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