My take on Ferguson, Brown and Wilson (not so politically correct - be warned)

ManglerYJ

ManglerYJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Location
Lexington, NC
There's so much stupidity surrounding this issue that I don't even know where to begin. I understand that when there is an officer involved shooting, there needs to be scrutiny, but this whole situation has gone from "We want to see justice served" to "We need to find a rope and have us a hanging right here and now". This case has already seen a grand jury where they determined that there was no cause even for an indictment, let alone an actual sentencing. They heard ALL SIDES of the situation. That's the point of a grand jury.

I applaud the grand jury for sticking to their guns and not cow-towing to outside pressure. They knew what kind of tinderbox that they were living in and knew that there would be repercussions (even though there is no cause for them), but they voted their conscience and the decision was thus. Granted, a life was lost. It's a tragedy, but it's a tragedy that he had a hand in. The evidence and the first hand accounts all speak to this. The officer was in the area responding to a report of a crime. His description matched, so he stopped him to question him. If Brown had responded appropriately, this would have been avoided, I am sure. My father in law has a saying, "The guilty dog barks the loudest". In other words, if he didn't have anything to be guilty of, then he shouldn't have been worried about being "hassled by the man".

Now, they make Brown out to be this saintly child who wouldn't hurt a fly. I am a firm believer that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. When the first thing out of your mouth when faced with bad news that you have been waiting on for days is, "Burn this M!#$%^&-F!#$%^& down", then odds are, your child is not a sweet innocent angel either. You wanted justice, the case was heard and eyewitness accounts were discredited and they determined that there wasn't sufficient evidence to indict. It wasn't the outcome you hoped for. Setting fire to car lots, looting the Advance Auto and the hairweave shop won't change anything. It merely exemplifies that perhaps violence is your default response to authority and proves even more that Officer Wilson was justified in his actions.

I feel even worse is the "protests" we are seeing around the country in response. The St. Louis Rams players; Stedman Bailey (West Virginia - majored in "Multidisciplinary Studies"),Tavon Austin (West Virginia - also majored in "Multidisciplinary Studies"), Jared Cook (South Carolina - majored in "Retailing"), Chris Givens (Wake Forest - majoring in Psychology) and Kenny Britt (Rutgers - majoring in ??? he never finished due to being drafted by Titans). I didn't see a law degree on any of them - and what the heck is Multidisciplinary Studies? I think even UNC gives their players a realistic sounding degree!!!!

Ironically, Britt seems to be at the center of the controversy, but yet, he is no model citizen himself. On April 12, 2011, Britt was arrested in New Jersey on three counts (including a felony) following an alleged car chase with police. The charges were later reduced. On June 7, Britt pled guilty to careless driving and was fined. On June 8, 2012, Britt was arrested in Hoboken, NJ, charged with resisting arrest. On January 13, 2013, Britt's close personal friend was involved in a stabbing and Britt reportedly drove him to the Jersey City Medical Center. When police attempted to ask Britt about the incident, he was allegedly not willing to cooperate. The incident marks the ninth time Britt was involved with police since he joined the NFL.

So on we go to the other "protests". Do you really think that disrupting sales at the local mall will actually make a difference? Come on... people will just go home and buy it Cyber Monday instead. Honestly, if you want to make a difference in protest, go do something constructive. Donate blood to the Red Cross in recognition of the blood spilled by Brown. Instead of a "hands up don't shoot" protest, put your hands up and put them to work volunteering at a shelter for at-risk youth. If you want to light something on fire, light a fire for your local homeless shelter to keep them warm.
 
Very well said.
The problem is that most of these people grow up in an area where this is the mentality for everyday life. It's shoot first and ask questions last. But, when this is used against them, they feel threatened. But like I have said before, I blame this mostly on the media....people look at it as a chance to get on TV, show that they are angry....Probably not angry at MB's death, but just mad at the world for whatever reason. They use this as an outlet. They look at it as a chance to get some free stuff, act a fool, and then still say they are being held back by the white man. I personally am getting sick and tired of hearing about how black people don't have a chance or voice in this world...but then you look at well established black folk be it in movies, music, politics, fortune 500 companies and wonder..."what the hell are you complaining about? most of these people came from the same life you are living now and they were able to find a way out"
I have no sympathy for anyone involved. I do feel sorry that a young man lost his life and never had the chance to turn his life around and do something positive...but in my eyes, he caused his own death. I also feel sorry for Wilson, his life as a LEO is pretty much over...he will have to live the rest of his life always looking over his shoulder and sleeping with one eye open.
As others have said, if someone reaches for my gun, its game over. I guarantee that had MB gotten ahold of Wilsons' gun, Wilson would have been the one killed and nothing would have ever been said on the news other than a cover story for a day or two.
I think the city of Ferguson should have handled this better and told anyone that if you so much as threaten to harm anyone or anything, you will be tazed and thrown in jail.
I can appreciate all those who peacefully protested this, because that is your right as an American...but as soon as you cross that line into destruction, then you get what is coming to you.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
As others have said, if someone reaches for my gun, its game over. I guarantee that had MB gotten ahold of Wilsons' gun, Wilson would have been the one killed and nothing would have ever been said on the news other than a cover story for a day or two.
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I agree - you reach for an officer's gun, expect to see the business end of it.
 
These problems are 100% created in the communities by the media and Gov't.

it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the people that are raising the kids and how they have learned to take handouts from big brother ( govt). there are few that are teaching the kids morals or how to act like a human being. the ones that do take action are the ones that get out and make something of themselves.

If you believe that the Gov't/media was not standing by thinking how can we use this to our advantage than you are in the dark.

and I still don't understand how the "average" human being does not see Al, Jesse and all there cronies as race batters is beyond me.
 
Couple counter points for the OP.
1- Brown has been estranged from his Dad since age 3. So you have a nature vs nurture argument. He didn't learn his behavior from his dad. If it is simply a case of apple doesnt fall far from tree, then he couldnt help himself apparently it was in his nature.
2- Yes the grand jury did not indict. The State DA is the son of a LEO killed in the line of duty. He is the one who presented the evidence to the grand jury to see if charges should be brought. He has brought charges against 16 LEO involved in shootings in his career NONE have gone to trial.


Dont mistake my position. Brown is/was a POS, but Im not convinced Wilson acted appropriately either. The goal of LEO isnt to apprehend bad guys immediately at all costs it is to protect and serve. Once they disengaged and an unarmed man ran away I can justify giving chase before back up arrives if you know you cant apprehend him on your own.

Stuff like the Ferguson case doesnt happen in Sharon, SC.
I cant relate. But a lot of people are quick to shrug this off with undertones of racism. "Ive heard that's just Ni**ers being Ni**ers" several times in realtion to this story in my circle of friends. Thats a slippery slope when a LEO can make an assumption and be judge, jury and executioner in the street. I dont want to be judged that way, and I doubt most others do.

That said, the father who incited a riot should be charged to the fullest extent of the law. Any looters who stole, destroyed and burned should be be punished harshly.

But I do not want to see our rights to free assembly nor our rights to a fair trial trampled on by over zealous reactionists either.
 
I'm not trying to single you out but I hope to spark some thought and debate here.

Cherokeekid88 said:
I have no sympathy for anyone involved. I do feel sorry that a young man lost his life and never had the chance to turn his life around and do something positive...but in my eyes, he caused his own death. I also feel sorry for Wilson, his life as a LEO is pretty much over...he will have to live the rest of his life always looking over his shoulder and sleeping with one eye open.
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Confusing post is confusing. I have no sympathy for anyone involved. I feel sorry for everyone involved.

Cherokeekid88 said:
As others have said, if someone reaches for my gun, its game over. I guarantee that had MB gotten ahold of Wilsons' gun, Wilson would have been the one killed and nothing would have ever been said on the news other than a cover story for a day or two.
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The point so many miss. As a LEO he is TRAINED how to handle these situations. He is held to a higher standard. He should react differently than you or I. How you would react is really irrelevant to the conversation.

Cherokeekid88 said:
I think the city of Ferguson should have handled this better and told anyone that if you so much as threaten to harm anyone or anything, you will be tazed and thrown in jail.
I can appreciate all those who peacefully protested this, because that is your right as an American...but as soon as you cross that line into destruction, then you get what is coming to you.
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I agree 100%...unless of course Ferguson wanted what they got.
There were a lot of police cars parked along the streets within 2 blocks of the town hall/police office precinct which had secured parking. Hrmm and they all got burned. Wonder if those were the oldest cars in the fleet?
 
Ron said:
Couple counter points for the OP.
1- Brown has been estranged from his Dad since age 3. So you have a nature vs nurture argument. He didn't learn his behavior from his dad. If it is simply a case of apple doesnt fall far from tree, then he couldnt help himself apparently it was in his nature.
2- Yes the grand jury did not indict. The State DA is the son of a LEO killed in the line of duty. He is the one who presented the evidence to the grand jury to see if charges should be brought. He has brought charges against 16 LEO involved in shootings in his career NONE have gone to trial.


Dont mistake my position. Brown is/was a POS, but Im not convinced Wilson acted appropriately either. The goal of LEO isnt to apprehend bad guys immediately at all costs it is to protect and serve. Once they disengaged and an unarmed man ran away I can justify giving chase before back up arrives if you know you cant apprehend him on your own.

Stuff like the Ferguson case doesnt happen in Sharon, SC.
I cant relate. But a lot of people are quick to shrug this off with undertones of racism. "Ive heard that's just Ni**ers being Ni**ers" several times in realtion to this story in my circle of friends. Thats a slippery slope when a LEO can make an assumption and be judge, jury and executioner in the street. I dont want to be judged that way, and I doubt most others do.

That said, the father who incited a riot should be charged to the fullest extent of the law. Any looters who stole, destroyed and burned should be be punished harshly.

But I do not want to see our rights to free assembly nor our rights to a fair trial trampled on by over zealous reactionists either.
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This pretty much exactly. To add further, I'm tired of every trivial thing whether it be a dog on a chain or someone with a pellet gun--or even someone with a real gun-- become a dead thing just because "feared for my life". If any other citizen would be prosecuted and jailed for it, so should you. With the lack of evidence in his favor I see no reason why this should not have at least gone to trial, being a hood rat piece of shit might justify an ass beating and jail but not being shot down in the street.
 
Ron said:
Couple counter points for the OP.
1- Brown has been estranged from his Dad since age 3. So you have a nature vs nurture argument. He didn't learn his behavior from his dad. If it is simply a case of apple doesnt fall far from tree, then he couldnt help himself apparently it was in his nature.
2- Yes the grand jury did not indict. The State DA is the son of a LEO killed in the line of duty. He is the one who presented the evidence to the grand jury to see if charges should be brought. He has brought charges against 16 LEO involved in shootings in his career NONE have gone to trial.
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Actually, the one inciting the riot screaming "Burn this M-F'er down" was his Step-father. There was a talking head on the news defending him saying, "They should have given him more time to process the information so that he could have made a more rational comment." As though the fact that they did immediately go out and "burn this M-F'er down" actually surprised people. "I just said 'burn this M-F'er down'.... I didn't actually expect anyone to do so!" Yes - likely story.

So, are you suggesting that the DA pulled punches in presenting his evidence? I'm sorry but in this high a profile case, anything less than giving it your all would probably get you disbarred regardless of your personal background. From the sounds of it, the evidence against Brown was pretty damning and when the evidence contradicts "eyewitness" testimony to the point that witnesses recant, it puts the onus on what Brown did to contribute to the situation. Remember, this is not "preponderance of the evidence", it's "beyond the shadow of a doubt".

I do feel bad for Officer Wilson. As stated, he will have a tough time laying low and fitting back into society, even after this blows over. Fortunately for him, he looks like the average Joe. I even thought at times, that he looked like another famous police officer - Jim Goose! Likeness is uncanny, huh?

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awww.madmaxmovies.com_mad_max_cast_and_crew_steve_bisley_mel_gibson_and_steve_bisley_mad_max.jpg


About the only thing I will criticize Officer Wilson of in this case is that he had to fire off 12 shots with a .40 cal pistol to take Brown down. Either he was REALLY freaked out (in which case his training was not sufficient - again not necessarily an indictment of Wilson, but more the department) or he was a horrible shot, in which case it's probably best that he stay out of law enforcement. I guess one other possible scenario played out - at first he was aiming to wound Brown and not to kill. From his testimony, the gun jammed twice as well.

Since there has never been any tox results published from Brown, it's safe to assume he did not have any drugs or alcohol in his system - which also would have explained why he was more difficult to take down. I've seen some pretty scrawny tweakers do some incredible things because of drugs and the need for more. A security guard at a GM frame assembly plant once told me that they were watching a guy who jumped over the fence high on meth. By himself, he picked up a bare frame from a pickup truck and began dragging it over to the fence. He hoisted it up to the fence and was beginning to push it over the fence as the guards just watched. They both figured that if he was strong enough to do that, not much was going to stop him. They waited until he tried to push the frame over the fence and his back bone literally crushed itself severing his spinal cord which allowed them to move in and take him down. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall that day.
 
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Ron said:
I'm not trying to single you out but I hope to spark some thought and debate here.



Confusing post is confusing. I have no sympathy for anyone involved. I feel sorry for everyone involved.





The point so many miss. As a LEO he is TRAINED how to handle these situations. He is held to a higher standard. He should react differently than you or I. How you would react is really irrelevant to the conversation.



I agree 100%...unless of course Ferguson wanted what they got.
There were a lot of police cars parked along the streets within 2 blocks of the town hall/police office precinct which had secured parking. Hrmm and they all got burned. Wonder if those were the oldest cars in the fleet?
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I should have worded the first part better. What I meant to say is that I don't feel sorry for anyone in Ferguson who acted in any of the riots/looting/unpeaceful protesting (if that's a word) But that I do fee sorry that someone did lose their life and an officers' life who will never be the same. I just didn't want to sound like a complete cold hearted sum bitch. :)

He was a trained LEO, BUT he is indeed like all of us in that he's human. I train tactically with my handguns. Practicing malfunctions, one handed manipulations, dry fire drills, proper grip, which in turn creates muscle memory....most of the time. Being in the heat of the moment and your mind running a million miles an hour can conflict with what you know. I'm sure his situation was no different. He had to defend his life, regardless of his position.
Holding him in a higher standard in this case I think is moot. this was a life or death situation. if someone breaks into my house and intends to do harm to myself or my family...my ultimate goal is to stop the threat. not ask the person politely to stand still So I can break off 3 shots center mass.
Again, I try not to assume how a person was thinking because until that moment arises, no one knows how they will react.
 
BRUISER said:
and I still don't understand how the "average" human being does not see Al, Jesse and all there cronies as race batters is beyond me.
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I ask myself that question all the time. I think its because they are working in their favor. They see a reason to cry wolf and everyone jumps on board and is brainwashed into believe that because they are black, they are at an automatic disadvantage. I have always said that its said they these people don't see that Sharpton and Jackson make a living off of others' misfortunes.
 
Cory said:
Lol Ron , the officer should have shot him before he got as close as he did.



http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/

Doesn't happen in SC?
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WOW... fires off 4 shots at less than 10 feet and has to "ask" if he is hit.

Now, in that case the officer DEFINITELY over-reacted. He hadn't positioned himself well enough prior to asking him to produce his ID, so any reaction would have appeared to be a "dive" into his vehicle. He did move a "little" faster than he should have, but the officer had no reason to already have a gun drawn. Hand on the holster? Yes, gun drawn? No. He fired and continued firing into a crowded area even after the "perp" had his hands up in full surrender.

In the perfect world that exists only in my mind, people should pull over when told to, keep hands in plain sight until asked to produce their ID, inform the officer of anything they need to know about (CCW permit, window that will not roll down on your vehicle, driver's license that is in the gym bag in the back seat, etc.) so that the officer is not caught off guard by anything.
 
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braxton357 said:
..... I see no reason why this should not have at least gone to trial, being a hood rat piece of shit might justify an ass beating and jail but not being shot down in the street.
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In a way it did go to trial. The evidence was presented to a jury and they decided no charges should be filed. If the DA made that decision by himself, then maybe it should be questioned. But he did the right thing by letting a grand jury make the decision. If the transcripts that I read online are accurate, I agree 100% with the "verdict".
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
Holding him in a higher standard in this case I think is moot. this was a life or death situation. if someone breaks into my house and intends to do harm to myself or my family...my ultimate goal is to stop the threat. not ask the person politely to stand still So I can break off 3 shots center mass.
Again, I try not to assume how a person was thinking because until that moment arises, no one knows how they will react.
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Understood, but dont forget the established facts.
They fought inside the car and the gun went off.
Brown died 160' from the car from a shot that was taken from less than 8'.

When you "fear for your life" because the guy is "as strong as hulk hogan" you dont give chase on foot solo. You call for back up and go find AND ARREST the asshole.
 
1) he did call for backup, and tried to maintain contact with the suspect while waiting for said backup. Cops just can't let someone run away and hide just because they are not as big as the suspect.

2) he didnt shoot while chasing the suspect, he fired shots when the suspect turned and ran back toward him.

Allegedly.... only one person lived to tell. There were a few "eye-witnesses", all of which were dis-credited with fact.





Hopefully 'discredited' is a word and I didnt make myself look dumb(er).
 
I try to put myself in Wilson's shoes. The gun went off inside the car, the suspect then started to run away, cops chases him and is surely telling him to stop/freeze/don't move/etc. suspect then turns around and starts coming at the cop? I'm guessing at this point MB already had been hit and was coming back for more. and then Wilson pops off some more rounds....perhaps Tunnel vision had already sank in?
 
Ron said:
I agree 100%...unless of course Ferguson wanted what they got.
There were a lot of police cars parked along the streets within 2 blocks of the town hall/police office precinct which had secured parking. Hrmm and they all got burned. Wonder if those were the oldest cars in the fleet?
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Haha, I thought about this too. Then again, if I was running shit I would park old shitty cars there too just because "Niggers will be niggers" and you never know what they will do. Apparently being a realist makes me a racist... but I bet you lock your doors if you drive through the hood too.
Couldn't resist. Really though. I feel no sympathy for Michael Brown or his family. I sleep better at night knowing another thug is off the streets, same as I did after the Treyvon ordeal.

I am so sick of this shit getting main stream media attention, its racist as hell. The same thing happen with roles reversed all the time and it never see's the light of day.

I can't remember the last time white people rioted after a jury trial going the other way.
oj murder.jpg
 
Police officers seem to be in daily crosshairs from the media (and idiots like me putting in their two cents worth). From Cleveland to Brooklyn, South Carolina to Missouri there seems to be more and more "incidents" like this. The one in Cleveland (teen is shot by police because he was playing with a toy gun - according to the media) looks to be a setup from the word go. The gun was an Airsoft that is an exact replica of a 1911 with one VERY notable exception - a bright orange tip that signifies it's a "toy". This one, however, had the orange tip removed. Whether it was him that did it, or the parents who removed the orange tip, someone made it look real. An officer cannot "assume it's fake", instead, they assume it's real. And if they roll up on you waiving around a real looking weapon and when instructed to put your hands up, instead reach for your waistband, guess what the outcome will be.

The situation in Brooklyn is definitely much deeper than the cell phone video shows too. He was in a choke hold, but he also is saying, "I can't breathe". If you can talk, you can breathe. Better still - if he hadn't been selling illegal cigarretes and other contraband AGAIN, then maybe the police wouldn't be hassling him AGAIN.

Why do people feel as though they can continually break the law and then piss and moan about being accosted by police? I don't have police officers knocking on my door, stopping me from waiving a toy gun or stopping me in the street because someone matching my description just robbed a store. If you look like a thug, act like a thug and talk like a thug, expect to be treated like a thug.

I was once hassled by a police officer when I was 15. I was riding my moped home from Boy Scouts at 9:00 at night. I was not in my uniform, but was riding out from behind the church where my troop met. The officer asked me for my ID and wanted to know why I was there. I explained, he checked out my license (Michigan requires a license for moped riders at age 15) and when he didn't find anything, he sent me home. I didn't act a fool and I wasn't treated like one.
 
Exactly like that. Except its nothing like that because they aren't burning buildings to the ground and what not... I find it difficult to compare the two situations.

Hmmm, maybe if we riot like the blacks we will get the same attention they will? Maybe we can shed light on the inequality and racism in the media.

Especially considering the possibility that the attack was related to the Michael Brown incident. Blame all white people... Kill Whitey...


“The last thing he did before he actually died was pull me out of the way and put himself in front of me, basically giving up his life for me,” Begic’s wife Arijana Mujkanovic told KDSK.

Police continue to assert that the murder was not racially motivated despite racial threats reportedly being made before the attack. CNN reports that the incident “apparently started with a verbal exchange.”

However, it was also reported that the same gang approached another white Bosnian earlier in the night, 24-year-old Seldin Dzananovic, who was able to fight off the attackers, suffering cuts to his hands and neck.

“I’m just lucky,” he said. “God is on my side.”

The fact that the same suspects attacked another Bosnian just an hour before the murder of Begic clearly suggests that the incident was not a random event.

Media coverage of the murder has been predictably sparse, with major publications like the New York Times failing to report on the story at all.
 
ManglerYJ said:
Why do people feel as though they can continually break the law and then piss and moan about being accosted by police? I don't have police officers knocking on my door, stopping me from waiving a toy gun or stopping me in the street because someone matching my description just robbed a store. If you look like a thug, act like a thug and talk like a thug, expect to be treated like a thug.

I was once hassled by a police officer when I was 15. I was riding my moped home from Boy Scouts at 9:00 at night. I was not in my uniform, but was riding out from behind the church where my troop met. The officer asked me for my ID and wanted to know why I was there. I explained, he checked out my license (Michigan requires a license for moped riders at age 15) and when he didn't find anything, he sent me home. I didn't act a fool and I wasn't treated like one.
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I have had several run ins with the police over the years... I have met some real dbag cops who treated the badge like a crown. I have also met some great guys who wear the badge for the right reasons.
On Halloween I was at Jakes Billards by UNCG, drinking and having a good time. We were about to leave, standing out front talking to my buddy Zach (Door Guy/Bouncer) when I see a guy get punched in the face, he goes down and 3-4 guys start kicking and stomping him. I ran over to try and break it up with my buddy and actually got punched in the face by a little 5'2 chick, busted my mouth open pretty good with her rings. Couldn't even be mad... She was crying and screaming, because the guy who got jumped was her boyfriend and she was scared.
Betcha can't guess what ethnicity the guys kicking and stomping him were? The guy was in critical condition that night, I never heard about it again but I am sure it didn't go well.

Cops arrived and asked if I wanted to press charges on her, I said "No, I don't like involving the police" and one of the cops said "Well you need to leave now unless you want to get arrested" So I told him to go fuck himself. The only reason he probably didn't kill me is because I am white right? lol.

There are stereotypes for a reason. We didn't just make them up. Thats all I am saying
 
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