New HVAC

Had a couple people come out and turns out, the company that we have been using was the cheapest and honestly, would rather use them since we have used them for years and my wife's family knows them.
A Question that has asked me was if we would be interested in opening up the return to our system to be a larger opening vs what we have now which currently holds a14x20 filter. He said that they would do it for no extra charge if we wanted to upgrade. This needed?

Trying to think of things that can be done to give a little more power to our new system.

Also, Our current outside unit gets a good amount of direct sunlight and this new unit is going to be taller and we currently have a small fence built around it and wondered if trying to protect it from the sun any was even worth thinking about?
 
Go as large as possible on filter size and use a decent pleated filter
 
rockcity said:
A larger opening wouldn’t hurt anything at all.
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Bigger is better. Quieter, and you can run a better filter with less pressure drop. 14x20 is pretty small if that's the only return.
 
I'm with dumber and dumberer...bigger return is better.

I would not waste time or energy worrying about sun exposure. I'd prefer no fence and more air flow to sun shade
 
shawn said:
That has no warranty, per the Bryant warranty card. Unit must be installed by a licensed installer, and equipment purchased over the internet has no warranty.
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Okay, so what? You just saved probably over double what an installer would charge you for the unit. I have a licensed, LLC individual that will put one in for me for $500. So you pay the man 500 or a grand, and if the whole thing blows up and turns to dust and there's nothing left, you can buy another one for same price, have it installed again and you STILL are ahead.

Or you can buy a Goodman unit from Amazon, still a good product, and those most certainly are covered by warranty if a licensed installer does the work.
 
Pacfanweb said:
Okay, so what? You just saved probably over double what an installer would charge you for the unit. I have a licensed, LLC individual that will put one in for me for $500. So you pay the man 500 or a grand, and if the whole thing blows up and turns to dust and there's nothing left, you can buy another one for same price, have it installed again and you STILL are ahead.

Or you can buy a Goodman unit from Amazon, still a good product, and those most certainly are covered by warranty if a licensed installer does the work.
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Well, you said it had a full factory warranty, for starters.

I had a Goodman installed last year for $3k, and it has a 10 year parts warranty and a 1yr labor warranty. If I bought it over the internet, it wouldn't have any warranty, per the warranty registration requirements.

Maybe the parts warranty isn't worth $500 to you. Maybe it is. But buying one off the internet and having somebody do the install for you is costing you something, mostly the warranty.
 
I'd love to fight that warranty claim in court ...that it was voided based on point of purchase seems like a pretty clear violation of interstate commerce.

I wonder if they are doing the "light deviation model number game"
 
Ron said:
I'd love to fight that warranty claim in court ...that it was voided based on point of purchase seems like a pretty clear violation of interstate commerce.

I wonder if they are doing the "light deviation model number game"
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Playing devil’s advocate...



How would the vendor/buyer guarantee it was shipped and handled properly to your door step? How do they know it was handled correctly by the purchaser? How many “vendors” does it pass through before the end user received it?

Not saying it’s any different than how they do it when shipping to a vendor to install in your house, but at least there is some reasonable level of control of the process, etc.
 
The Magnuson Moss act doesnt care. Federal Llaw.
It allows a manufacturer to require an inspection prior to placing into service by a qualified person, but that must be stated clearly with every proposal or it isnt valid. And even still they cant refuse to inspect or they accept as is.

If a consumer is a bulldog and willing to fight that law is pretty darn consume friendly.
 
Which to expand on my model number variation game comment.


Go look at your home appliances. Then look at how long the model number is. And quickly realize there is no reason for the model number to be 16+characters. This would imply somewhere over 100 trillion possible variations. Ge doesnt make that many different stoves.

But ... 164dz38701p0r0t1 that's pretty hard to memorize precisely.
They do this for 2 reasons. 1 is
164dz38701p0r0t1 maybe a home depot model
164dz39701p0r0t1 maybe a lowes model and
164dz33701p0r0t1 maybe a sears model.

They will then contract with each of these manufacturers and "put it in writing" that they will get a guaranteed lower price by 25% than any other retailer who carries the same product.


More over they will frequently also make a model
164dz38701p0r0t5 (just for example here) where that simple 5 on the end designates to them that this is a product sold online and comes with no factory warranty. You literature will say that somewhere. They are banking on you researching that model number and not finding it but finding the -1 and seeing the 10 years warranty and assuming...

It will stand up in court in that case because "We offer an economical model with no warranty cost built in for select consumers who dont WANT a warranty"
 
Ron said:
The Magnuson Moss act doesnt care. Federal Llaw.
It allows a manufacturer to require an inspection prior to placing into service by a qualified person, but that must be stated clearly with every proposal or it isnt valid. And even still they cant refuse to inspect or they accept as is.

If a consumer is a bulldog and willing to fight that law is pretty darn consume friendly.
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Cost vs reward, it’s rare anyone would fight it much
 
shawn said:
Well, you said it had a full factory warranty, for starters.

I had a Goodman installed last year for $3k, and it has a 10 year parts warranty and a 1yr labor warranty. If I bought it over the internet, it wouldn't have any warranty, per the warranty registration requirements.

Maybe the parts warranty isn't worth $500 to you. Maybe it is. But buying one off the internet and having somebody do the install for you is costing you something, mostly the warranty.
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Goodman's website, for the one I linked, (and the one I looked up) specifically states that the warranty is good is you use a licensed installer.
https://www.amazon.com/Goodman-1-5-...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7BZF84F976FEH6WBGV5X

This Listing Includes a 1.5 ton Heat Pump Model
This comes with a 10-year warranty on all the parts when installed by a qualified installer and registered online.
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That is in the ad.

On Goodman's site, for another model:

What Units Does This Warranty Not Cover?
This warranty does not apply to: · Units that are ordered over the Internet, by telephone, or by other electronic means unless the unit is installed by a dealer adhering to all applicable federal, state, and local codes, policies, and licensing requirements.
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So it's covered unless you install it yourself.

Now I still say who cares? It's so much cheaper that if it's not covered and it fails in 5 years, just pay to get it fixed. Or fix it yourself. You'll still be FAR ahead of the game, money-wise, than if you paid retail.

And this doesn't even touch on the fact that you bought it from Amazon Prime, and the ad states it's covered. I guarantee you Amazon would step in if you had issues with the manufacturer. They are that good, so you're going to be covered one way or another.

I don't mind trade-types making some money. (as I am one myself) But I don't need to pay 300% more for the same unit from them than I could online, though. If you feel better doing that, it's your call. This is my preferred way, though.
 
It's $500, not 300%.
 
shawn said:
It's $500, not 300%.
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Not sure what you're talking about, but if you have a retail company provide and install a new HVAC, it's going to be $5-6k or more in most cases.
Or, you can get one for $1500-2k from Amazon. 2,000x3=6. I generalized. Sue me.

It's a crap ton of money saved any way you slice it. Might not be for you, and that's fine.
 
Pacfanweb said:
Not sure what you're talking about, but if you have a retail company provide and install a new HVAC, it's going to be $5-6k or more in most cases.
Or, you can get one for $1500-2k from Amazon. 2,000x3=6. I generalized. Sue me.

It's a crap ton of money saved any way you slice it. Might not be for you, and that's fine.
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Again, I paid $3k actual dollars a few months ago for a turn-key install from an actual mechanical contractor. The deal came with a 10 year manuf warranty on parts and a 1yr labor warranty.

The parts cost about $2k, and most of a day's labor for the install makes up the other $1k.

If I ordered one off Amazon and paid some hayseed to install it, I might have saved $500, and I'd have no warranty.
 
shawn said:
Again, I paid $3k actual dollars a few months ago for a turn-key install from an actual mechanical contractor. The deal came with a 10 year manuf warranty on parts and a 1yr labor warranty.

The parts cost about $2k, and most of a day's labor for the install makes up the other $1k.

If I ordered one off Amazon and paid some hayseed to install it, I might have saved $500, and I'd have no warranty.
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You also have more buying power based on your potential professional influence, and your wife's, than you probably realize.
 
Ron said:
You also have more buying power based on your potential professional influence, and your wife's, than you probably realize.
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Nope.
 
Ron said:
Ok. My point is you don't realize your position your reply is nope. Makes sense.
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The client selects the GC, who selects the subs, who select the suppliers. Where, exactly, do you think my influence factors into that equation?

Also, I note that you're inferring I got buddy pricing, but not arguing such with facts. Kinda like duder who insists mechanical contactors slap $500/hr tech fees on equipment installs when you buy through them, but only charge $150/hr when you ask them to install an owner--supplied piece of equipment.

There are a few people in this thread that have never read proposals that say "owner supplied - no warranty provided", but I'm not one of them.
 
shawn said:
The client selects the GC, who selects the subs, who select the suppliers. Where, exactly, do you think my influence factors into that equation?

Also, I note that you're inferring I got buddy pricing, but not arguing such with facts. Kinda like duder who insists mechanical contactors slap $500/hr tech fees on equipment installs when you buy through them, but only charge $150/hr when you ask them to install an owner--supplied piece of equipment.

There are a few people in this thread that have never read proposals that say "owner supplied - no warranty provided", but I'm not one of them.
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Ok a myriad of issues.
1- I'm not talking buddy pricing, that could be a factor but I wasn't assuming it since you didn't mention it.
2- actual chain of supply is actually irrelevant. What I mean is a couple months back a ME contacted me about residential generarators for his personal vacation house. Now I don't do resi. He doesnt specify generators. And he damn sure doesnt buy them. So no deals, right? Wrong, youu never know who talks to who and the potential value of a good impression. I spent 2 hours educating and even visited his house and then sold him a unit at my cost. Because even if I ripped him a new one id be making $700 but if i gave him a deal, made him feel important and he told the right person I could make 100x that. I didnt tell him that, i don't suspect he knows that, but there is always the lure of the golden goose for an entrepreneur.
3- even if y'all didn't tell him what your occupations were, if he's perceptive he could have picked it up possibly.
4- even if he didn't cut you a potential golden egg laying goose deal, both you and cyd have extensive knowledge in the space and are educated consumers. Putting you at a huge advantage to the average Joe homeowner. That knowledge will become apparent to a supplier who is half paying attention. And will result in a better price point for ypu.
5- I'm of suggesting you got a 90% off the boss is on vacation one time only deal. But you clearlyngkt about 10-15% below price I get from a mechanical contractor who I've known since 7th grade and has installed over a dozen had systems for me. You didn't get a typical price, I feel assured you know that.
6- your last line is just smoke and mirrors and you know that. If an owner buys a gen from me direct, you can bet your ass that the GC and everyone down the line is going to say "owner supplied; contractor Installed no warranty." Sure we've both seen that. Doesn't mean the owner doesn't get a warranty, I as the manufacturer will still repair any defective equipment. This is a gc saying he isn't going to supply free labor for my warranty repair. Which he wasn't going to do anyway, he was going to send me the bill - you and your client would just never see it. What this GC is saying is, danger danger if you don't buy from me and let me make my 15% markup on that if anything goes wrong I'm going to make it difficult on you. Weve all seen that game. It why if a non government entity owner buys direct from me they get an extra 15%. That's 10 for the gc and 5 for the ec and I'll, write them a check.

Don't confuse a commercial construction contract with a manufacturers warranty on consumer products.

Also, you'd probably be shocked to read an authorized service dealers contract with that manufacturer. If that unit fails, one of your local certified dealers will be out there. That conversation sounds like, " look bob. I get it. It sucks. When he cuts you out of the loop I lose commission too. But we have to take care of the guy to protect the rand for both our sakes. So put him last on the list. Ring him up if it isn't installed properly but get out there and get it fixed, and I'll check on those last 15 warranty requests you filed. I'll make sure they get processed and nothing gets challenged for ya.
 
So again, you think there's a 10% delta here, not 2-3x, but you still want to argue about it and knock down some straw men. What the fuck ever. You could have just said you agreed with me six posts ago.
 
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