Off road vehicle insurance

The insurance I've found for mini is more along the lines of UTV/dune buggy insurance; each company's definition is a little different. Call it a tractor for all I care, just get me the proper insurance.


I have started looking at a way to install a VIN/serial number myself. I have yet to figure that one out. ATVs are typically governed by the CPSC with ISO and SAE both having standards, etc. a lot of info I'm finding to be able to create a VIN for a home built vehicle is that you need to also follow the standards set forth by CPSC, SAE, ISO, etc. I'm not convinced that I have to follow those standards, but I haven't found anything that says otherwise since most of those standards are geared towards governing mass production manufacturers.

I guess I could adopt a 17 digit VIN and self produce a VIN based on that. But I still wouldn't have a title. Only proof of ownership would be receipts and bill of sale. I'm not sure how valid that really is, to make up your own serial #...
 
rockcity said:
The insurance I've found for mini is more along the lines of UTV/dune buggy insurance; each company's definition is a little different. Call it a tractor for all I care, just get me the proper insurance.


I have started looking at a way to install a VIN/serial number myself. I have yet to figure that one out. ATVs are typically governed by the CPSC with ISO and SAE both having standards, etc. a lot of info I'm finding to be able to create a VIN for a home built vehicle is that you need to also follow the standards set forth by CPSC, SAE, ISO, etc. I'm not convinced that I have to follow those standards, but I haven't found anything that says otherwise since most of those standards are geared towards governing mass production manufacturers.

I guess I could adopt a 17 digit VIN and self produce a VIN based on that. But I still wouldn't have a title. Only proof of ownership would be receipts and bill of sale. I'm not sure how valid that really is, to make up your own serial #...
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Maybe someone building a RZR buggy could sell you the title and VIN from their RZR if they don't care to have one.
You would have to stamp it into the tube on the mini.
I'd sell you the one from my ATV but then you would have to value it based on the ATV VIN??
 
Van-go said:
Maybe someone building a RZR buggy could sell you the title and VIN from their RZR if they don't care to have one.
You would have to stamp it into the tube on the mini.
I'd sell you the one from my ATV but then you would have to value it based on the ATV VIN??
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Yes it would be valued as the ATV. Some companies allow customization and additions $ to cover that but only to a certain point.
 
rockcity said:
Yes it would be valued as the ATV. Some companies allow customization and additions $ to cover that but only to a certain point.
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Possible to use the VIN from the donor, but as said, they likely not cover the extra expense. Agreed value atv policy is likely the ticket here. Not sure it exists though.

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FWIW, I have insurance on my golf cart through my erie agent. My golf cart is one of the 4x4 ones that they made some of them street legal and some aren't. Mine has a 7-8 digit serial number whereas the street legal ones had a 17 digit VIN. I was able to set my stated value on my cart as xxxx for cart and xxxx for modifications. If it were to get stolen/burnt/wrecked etc I would get that amount minus the deductible. I will look this afternoon but I believe the actual policy was through progressive. I have liability and theft on it.

I wonder if you could make up your own serial number and paperwork for them?
 
Golf carts are easy to insure. The mini buggy seems easy enough to insure.

The challenge is getting a legal and valid VIN for mini buggy.

The 17 digit VIN is governed by ISO and is for on-road vehicles. Some off highway manufacturers follow the same standard, such as Polaris, but it's by choice.

But getting a VIN the legal way, myself, seems to be the challenge at this point.

I'm tempted to create my own VIN, stamp it, and create a bill of sale which also references the my own VIN and be done and see how that works out...
 
rockcity said:
Golf carts are easy to insure. The mini buggy seems easy enough to insure.

The challenge is getting a legal and valid VIN for mini buggy.

The 17 digit VIN is governed by ISO and is for on-road vehicles. Some off highway manufacturers follow the same standard, such as Polaris, but it's by choice.

But getting a VIN the legal way, myself, seems to be the challenge at this point.

I'm tempted to create my own VIN, stamp it, and create a bill of sale which also references the my own VIN and be done and see how that works out...
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I think you're overthinking or giving way too much credit to the "officialness" of the VIN system.
The way VINs are developed is just an agreed upon standard by members of an industry. The auto companies agreed to make them XX digits with rules about what numeral positions 1, 2, and 3 means. Then golf cart manufacturers did the same. So do ATV manufacturers. So do piano makers and washing machines and TVs, and....

But not all manufacturers always follow the standard, see the golf cart example above.
So why not just make up your own VIN system, or if you really want to dig into it, find out the scheme for UTVs and follow the scheme but alter the part about the mfr number. Consider yourself a mfr.

Find out what you want to insure it as - or what's easiest/most logical to - then find out what the VIN requirements are from the insurance company for that kind of vehicle. Then make up the VIN to match that. For clarity, lets even stop calling it a VIN b/c V stands for Vehicle. Call it a Serial Number.

I think you're overthinking "legal" here. There is no governing legal body for VINs or serial numbers. Only standards adopted by manufacturers. There are laws about faking or modifying them for the sake of fraud, that is it.

regarding title - why do you even need a title for insurance? I've never had that even be asked of me.
 
Let me put it this way.
Lets pretend you decide to go into the business of selling toasters. In the process you invest a totally new toaster that works by using X-Rays and rainbows. Then you decide to make several of them. Because this is a pretty damn expensive toaster, and there are only a couple people in the world who even want such a crazy device, you decide to make serial numbers to ID each one.
Guess what - you can make any serial number you want. There is no law dictating what scheme you have to use or that your scheme HAS to be approved by XYZ government branch. Now, ANSI might have safety standards you want to follow, but they don't care wtf you do to track your X Ray Toasters. Also, the Acme Toaster Corporation may have their own name for toasters that sounds like X Ray Toasters, so you better be careful about that, and not use the same serial numbering system they use b/c they might sue you for infringement. But nobody says what you can and can't put on your device as a unique identifier.

The only problem will be that the insurance company may look at your weird serial number and say, "that's odd, it doesn't look the same as other Toasters we see. Our database seems to want 7 digits and you only have 6. We don't know what to do with this weird number." In which case you say, "oh, I'm sorry I skipped a digit. Here is a 7 digit number..."

Likewise, when you decide you want to put your toaster on display at Wally's Toaster Display House, maybe Wally says you must have an 11 digit serial and your toaster must meet ANSI 989478758.1234. Well guess what, it doesn't. So you tell Wally to go f%ck himself and instead you take you toaster and put in on display in your own yard.
(this is the DMV situation)
 
rockcity said:
VINs (at least the 17 digit ones...) are standarized by ISO and enforced by the FHTSA
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because they are for vehicles to be driven on public roads, yes.
If you don't have a vehicle, and aren't driving on the road, that has no application to you.
 
What I have learned about VINs is this: The way it was explained to me by several of the agents I have recently spoken to, the VIN is tied to a set of vehicle specifications/ratings that are published by the manufacturer and/or third party rating companies that the insurance companies review/use to write policies and determine premiums. For a custom built/home built/specially constructed vehicle, this data does not exist; therefore, insurance companies have a hard time figuring out how the vehicle will perform, and the risks that are associated with operating such vehicles. While insurance companies use the VIN to identify the vehicle's ownership in the event of a claim, they also use it for the "product data". Unless you can furnish some manufacturer specs/ratings for the vehicle, then a made up vin/serial number doesn't mean squat to an insurance company. And you'll still be in the same boat. If you are the builder, you may be able to call an insurance agent and find out exactly what product data they would need, then you can stamp the vehicle with your own unique serial number, and list the specs as required on whatever official-ish paperwork is needed.

And as far as swapping a vin from another vehicle onto anything else and trying to insure it as that vehicle, I'm fairly certain that would fall under the classification of insurance fraud. And as mentioned above, that vin is tied to product data that will tell the insurance company everything they need to know about that vehicle. When you file a claim, and they inspect the vehicle (which they will do) they are going to immediately deny the claim because that's not the vehicle that they thought they insured, and they're going to have to make a decision whether or not they are going to sue you for fraud. At a minimum you will lose your policy. I would not recommend going this route. This would just be throwing money away.
 
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