Recession coming?

DSM Turbos said:
Credit cards aren’t bad. Leveraged right they make you money on everyday usage. Plus great for emergencies (not saying carry a balance)
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And so does my debit card, 1.5%. Credit cards arent inherently bad, but we simply choose not to carry any debt if we can help it.
 
JSJJ388 said:
And so does my debit card, 1.5%. Credit cards arent inherently bad, but we simply choose not to carry any debt if we can help it.
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Just a heads up to think about - if that debit card gets hacked or duped you're SOL and possibly looking at major financial ruin. If the same happens to a credit card you have no liability or loss whatsoever.
You can use a credit card w/o incurring any debt. Between my wife and I we haven't had any debt aside from the house is probably 8 years, but I have not used a debit card for anything aside from ATM withdrawals in probably 5 or more.
Its also much better for your credit score.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Just a heads up to think about - if that debit card gets hacked or duped you're SOL and possibly looking at major financial ruin. If the same happens to a credit card you have no liability or loss whatsoever.
You can use a credit card w/o incurring any debt. Between my wife and I we haven't had any debt aside from the house is probably 8 years, but I have not used a debit card for anything aside from ATM withdrawals in probably 5 or more.
Its also much better for your credit score.
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Very true. We tried the "pay it off every month" when we started out. Got into a bind that took us years to undo. Decided it was best for us to just not have them. Granted, that was five years ago and we have matured and learned a lot since then.
 
JSJJ388 said:
Very true. We tried the "pay it off every month" when we started out. Got into a bind that took us years to undo. Decided it was best for us to just not have them. Granted, that was five years ago and we have matured and learned a lot since then.
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And this is the #2 reason not to use credit cards, #1 being you can't qualify due to bad credit :D

You also can have the CC set with a limit that is just about your monthly needs, say $1000 or whatever. That way you can't get yourself into trouble.

Into the meantime, if you want to use the debit card, have the bank set up a separate account that is the default for the card, and set up and auto-transfer into it. That way if the card is spoofed at least they will only drain a small amount of $$.
 
I pay my credit card over probably ever 2-3 weeks, I don't even wait for a statement. I use it mostly like a debit card for that.
I have even started using my citi card with a temp number for most online purchases so if that number is stolen, my main credit card number is still good and I don't have to wait for a replacement card.
But now we are really off topic :clap:
 
RatLabGuy said:
Just a heads up to think about - if that debit card gets hacked or duped you're SOL and possibly looking at major financial ruin. If the same happens to a credit card you have no liability or loss whatsoever.
You can use a credit card w/o incurring any debt. Between my wife and I we haven't had any debt aside from the house is probably 8 years, but I have not used a debit card for anything aside from ATM withdrawals in probably 5 or more.
Its also much better for your credit score.
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Are you sure about that debit card statement? That would be news to me. No credit cards here and any issues with fraud in the past have been handled quickly with my debit card.

Your Liability for Unauthorized Credit and Debit Card Charges
 
getstucksome said:
Are you sure about that debit card statement? That would be news to me. No credit cards here and any issues with fraud in the past have been handled quickly with my debit card.

Your Liability for Unauthorized Credit and Debit Card Charges
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It's been...man probably 15 years but I have shared the story here of why I personally swore off debit cards and I know its been referenced before - but its worth sharing how what you linked IS true, but how mechanically it can still leave you in a mess.

At the time my wife and I were Dave Ramsey Certified Financial Counselors for his Financial Peace seminars at our church.
We had drank the koolaid, cut up every credit card, carrying cash envelopes and using debit cards in place of credit cards.
Because we were on the debt snowball full speed ahead, we had the $1k in the savings and a zero sum budget. We had our cash envelopes in the gun safe but we were spending the checking account down to $100 (my perceived zero)
My debit card got compromised at a hotel apparently and they made multiple transactions over night until they wiped my account clean. Plus a couple more that were declined.

[At this point in the story I should break in and say tech is much better now and I would have probably gotten a phone call today for suspicious activity]

Timing was not on our side and we didn't have smart phones or bank apps or check balances daily. We were unaware any of this had happened until...
Checks we had mailed for mortgage, car payment, car insurance and what ever bills we had in the mail hit NSF. Notably Wells Fargo Home mortgage tried to run our mortgage check an incredible 7 times. Each one giving yet another $40 returned check fee from Wells fargo and a $25 NSF fee from the bank.
By the time we call the bank we had nearly 20 NSFs. We could immediately see what happened and they agreed to investigate. Here is where it sucks. The bank has like 60 days to do an investigation if they suspect the charges are not fraudulent. During that time they dont return your money. So here we sat with close to $500 in NSF fees from our bank. Plus bills outstanding that were a month behind plus their fees they had tacked on. When my next check direct deposited (back then I was paid weekly and each check was like $600 net) the bank immediately soaked up their NSF fees leaving me with less than $100.

It was a disaster and took hours and hours of fighting to straighten out. Finally after 2 weeks or so the bank ruled in our favor and replaced the fraudulent money, and were even nice enough to refund all bankside NSF fees. HOWEVER the bounced check fee to Wells Fargo (yep all 7 of them) to GMAC, to All State, and to our credit card were not refunded because - in their eyes they were legit. Despite it not being my fault, their check had still bounced. I got letters from the bank forwarded them to all parties involved and the only one who gave a shit and refunded any of my money was All State. Now I hate All State insurance with a passion but I still remember them fondly for that one thing.

In the end we were not responsible for any money charged fraudulently, but it caused real collateral damage to me and my credit score.

If that had been on a credit card, I would have dispute the charges and the charges are just suspended until a ruling is made.

From that moment on our debit card is used exclusively at an ATM owned by my bank and no where else.
 
Floating a balance vs paying off before the next statement posts are 2 different things. CC’s can be a safety net, a way to get cash back, or a no interest loan when you get a new one at 16 months no interest. But you shouldn’t need to float a balance on a regular month unless you are strategically buying something big
 
Even if you don't believe in CC or whatnot, please make sure you have a plan for if your card is compromised. Have a 2nd bank account with another debit card. If you have a credit card, have a 2nd card with another bank etc.

Traveling when you can't get to your bank, or on a weekend when they are closed, and not having a card to pay for things can put you in a very bad situation. Always have a backup plan. I never have cash, I don't keep cash at my house, and the amount of cash I would need I wouldn't want to be carrying on a worst case scenario.
 
getstucksome said:
Are you sure about that debit card statement? That would be news to me. No credit cards here and any issues with fraud in the past have been handled quickly with my debit card.

Your Liability for Unauthorized Credit and Debit Card Charges
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm sure.
Like @Ron I've been hit also. While you aren't liable for the charges, you certainly are for anything that results from you not having any $$ in the account. Vendors, power company, mortgage, they don't care WHY your check bounced or the auto transaction was declined, all they know is you didn't have the money, and they can and will add whatever fee they want on top of it.
We got lucky, were were hit near the end of the month. We intentionally line up all of our bills to clear at the beginning, and our pay goes into a saving account, and drafts into checking at the very end of prior month. That way all of our "spending money" comes in, the big bills immediately clear most of it out, then we have only discretionary expenses left. (and now that we use CCs 100% of the time there are literally no transactions for like 2 weeks after the CCs are paid). Since they hit us at the end, they only cleared out a little, and nothing bounced bc it was all paid already. The bank notified us of unusual transactions, we called and refuted it. It still took a few weeks to get the $$ back.
Had that been on the 1st we would have been up Schitt's Creek.
 
Ron said:
It's been...man probably 15 years but I have shared the story here of why I personally swore off debit cards and I know its been referenced before - but its worth sharing how what you linked IS true, but how mechanically it can still leave you in a mess.

At the time my wife and I were Dave Ramsey Certified Financial Counselors for his Financial Peace seminars at our church.
We had drank the koolaid, cut up every credit card, carrying cash envelopes and using debit cards in place of credit cards.
Because we were on the debt snowball full speed ahead, we had the $1k in the savings and a zero sum budget. We had our cash envelopes in the gun safe but we were spending the checking account down to $100 (my perceived zero)
My debit card got compromised at a hotel apparently and they made multiple transactions over night until they wiped my account clean. Plus a couple more that were declined.

[At this point in the story I should break in and say tech is much better now and I would have probably gotten a phone call today for suspicious activity]

Timing was not on our side and we didn't have smart phones or bank apps or check balances daily. We were unaware any of this had happened until...
Checks we had mailed for mortgage, car payment, car insurance and what ever bills we had in the mail hit NSF. Notably Wells Fargo Home mortgage tried to run our mortgage check an incredible 7 times. Each one giving yet another $40 returned check fee from Wells fargo and a $25 NSF fee from the bank.
By the time we call the bank we had nearly 20 NSFs. We could immediately see what happened and they agreed to investigate. Here is where it sucks. The bank has like 60 days to do an investigation if they suspect the charges are not fraudulent. During that time they dont return your money. So here we sat with close to $500 in NSF fees from our bank. Plus bills outstanding that were a month behind plus their fees they had tacked on. When my next check direct deposited (back then I was paid weekly and each check was like $600 net) the bank immediately soaked up their NSF fees leaving me with less than $100.

It was a disaster and took hours and hours of fighting to straighten out. Finally after 2 weeks or so the bank ruled in our favor and replaced the fraudulent money, and were even nice enough to refund all bankside NSF fees. HOWEVER the bounced check fee to Wells Fargo (yep all 7 of them) to GMAC, to All State, and to our credit card were not refunded because - in their eyes they were legit. Despite it not being my fault, their check had still bounced. I got letters from the bank forwarded them to all parties involved and the only one who gave a shit and refunded any of my money was All State. Now I hate All State insurance with a passion but I still remember them fondly for that one thing.

In the end we were not responsible for any money charged fraudulently, but it caused real collateral damage to me and my credit score.

If that had been on a credit card, I would have dispute the charges and the charges are just suspended until a ruling is made.

From that moment on our debit card is used exclusively at an ATM owned by my bank and no where else.
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This is true. If you have ever seen the movie, "Catch Me If You Can", it is based on the real Frank Abignail, who was a master at bank fraud and forgery. He eluded the FBI for so long that when they finally caught him, they offered him a job working FOR them. In an interview with him, he mentions how he will NEVER EVER have a debit card, but instead will carry a credit card. If you are a victim of credit card fraud, the credit card company owns the liability through their FDIC insurance, not you. If your debit card is compromised, Federal law limits your liability for fraudulent charges using your debit card to $50. To take advantage of this law, you must report the fraudulent charges within two business days of the charge. After two business days, your liability goes up to $500. If you do not report the theft for more than 60 days after receiving your statement, the bank has no obligation to refund your money at all.
 
Jody Treadway said:
He better clear that up with Biden first. According to him the economy is roaring
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I mean he does say it is doing well right now?

Dimon, chief executive of the largest bank in the U.S., said the U.S. economy was “actually still doing well” at present and consumers were likely to be in better shape compared with the 2008 global financial crisis.

“But you can’t talk about the economy without talking about stuff in the future — and this is serious stuff,” Dimon told CNBC’s Julianna Tatelbaum on Monday at the JPM Techstars conference in London.
Among the indicators ringing alarm bells, Dimon cited the impact of runaway inflation, interest rates going up more than expected, the unknown effects of quantitative easing and Russia’s war in Ukraine.

“These are very, very serious things which I think are likely to push the U.S. and the world — I mean, Europe is already in recession — and they’re likely to put the U.S. in some kind of recession six to nine months from now,” Dimon said.
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Jody Treadway said:
Because we're obviously NOT in one now, right?
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You just need to STFU or you're gonna TALK us into a recession!!!

Just sit over there and count hundo's and hush :laughing:
 
Unemployment dropped to 3.5% last week. Things are still booming. I haven't heard of a single person I know getting laid off. Everyone seems to be changing jobs for more money.
 
Jody Treadway said:
Because we're obviously NOT in one now, right?
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It is certainly the oddest recession I have seen.
By traditional definitions I guess we are in one, but whenever you look around, it doesn't feel like one at all. Nothing like 2008, nothing like early 2000s, etc.
GDP has declined which technically makes it one, but it is definitely not like ones we have seem before IMO.
 
DSM Turbos said:
It is certainly the oddest recession I have seen.
By traditional definitions I guess we are in one, but whenever you look around, it doesn't feel like one at all.
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Check your 401k compared to december last year
 
DSM Turbos said:
😭
There are a few ways things look bad, there are other ways things look great
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I see the bragging all over the web about how biden has created the lowest unemployment EVAH. But think about what happened prior to him coming into office. Covid closed and nearly bankrupted the entire food service industry as well as entertainment/concerts, all live events, leaving millions without a job. Factories all but closed, and the entire world came to a near stand-still, while trump was in office. Then the election and we "allow" 50% seating and SOME social activities, and loosen restrictions. Folks go back to work by the droves...and it's magically #becausebiden
I stand firmly in the middle of the road riding a steamroller hoping to catch either dem/rep in my sights to stain the highway, so I'm not suggesting either party is to blame, nor to praise..simply saying that like everything...it's who's still standing there in the office when things start LOOKING better.

The current administration is patting itself on the back on a ship sailing into a hurricane with a hole in it's side.
 
CasterTroy said:
I see the bragging all over the web about how biden has created the lowest unemployment EVAH. But think about what happened prior to him coming into office. Covid closed and nearly bankrupted the entire food service industry as well as entertainment/concerts, all live events, leaving millions without a job. Factories all but closed, and the entire world came to a near stand-still, while trump was in office. Then the election and we "allow" 50% seating and SOME social activities, and loosen restrictions. Folks go back to work by the droves...and it's magically #becausebiden
I stand firmly in the middle of the road riding a steamroller hoping to catch either dem/rep in my sights to stain the highway, so I'm not suggesting either party is to blame, nor to praise..simply saying that like everything...it's who's still standing there in the office when things start LOOKING better.

The current administration is patting itself on the back on a ship sailing into a hurricane with a hole in it's side.
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Oh 100%, whatever the current administration they will blame the last for their faults, but never give the last some credit for what got us to the good parts. Happens every time on both sides.

Politics is the most fucked up cluster of a circus ever. They would all be fired if they were in the private sector.
 
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