Slicing a building off at an angle to conform to setbacks / crazy or not?

6BangBronk

6BangBronk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Location
Durham
I've been talking to a surveyor and zoning about subdividing off a lot to allow for the upstairs of a 1,200 sf shop to become a dwelling. This is for a piece of property I'm looking at. It has 3 buildings but the zoning only allows for 2 dwellings per property. But in order to do so, it boils down to slicing off some of one of the buildings at about a 20 degree angle. If the building was sliced straight the side building setback line (12' from building) that offsets from it would intersect the rear building setback (50' from building) and would be much farther into the other property and would require the initial building to be cut in nearly half in a straight line and not worth the efforts. But if sliced at this angle, I would only need to take like 6 feet off the front and like 13 feet at the rear.
I picture having the surveyor putting me an iron along the projected angle in the front and in the rear of the building. Then planning where the cut will happen inside. Then frame and brace the new structural wall to be the future outside bearing wall and attach to all the ceiling joists and rafters all bound safely together. Then basically pull out the chain saws, sawzalls / heck even axes whatever and cutting til I can see from iron to iron. Actually everything like a foot over to allow for an overhang.
Carpentry is straight forward from there. Sheath the exterior, box in the eave and repair any damaged roofing, insulate and finish the inside. And possibly some electrical involved.

I tried google-ing this several different ways and came up empty.
 
I asked. They won't allow a variance on new property lines used to subdivide. Only variances permitted is the "unconditional" variances which is basically anything grandfathered on any of the old property lines.
 
It would look cool as heck!!! I would be willing to help on that. You could do a NC4X4 meet and hack?
 
A few things to ask about or research:

Can you have a dwelling in that type of shop structure and will it meet residential building codes? If it's a pole barn, steel building, etc., I think there are some problems with that from what I remember.

You might also look at rear encroachment zoning rules and see if you want to change your living space plan, because a subordinate structure like an attached garage can sometimes encroach past the rear setback a certain amount depending on the relationship between the garage and the house. In Mecklenburg, it can encroach up to 25% of the rear setback distance, and is limited to 50% of the dwelling width at the rear building line, etc.

So if you get creative with how you add the living space, and there's only a corner of the building that will be over the rear setback, there may be a way to work around it without chopping the building into pieces.

The reason I know this is that I'm considering rotating my garage about 35 degrees (it's in the design phase) and putting the corner over the setback and into in the rear yard. Completely allowed by zoning if it meets the encroachment rules.

Also, if it's in a subdivision and the zoning laws have changed since the subdivision plan was approved, and there's an older rear setback, you can sometimes have them use the older zoning setbacks. I got screwed on that one because there was no rear setback when my house was build, so I have to use the current zoning. My house is partially behind the new setback which means my side yard (attached garage needs to be in sideyard) is now pretty shallow.
 
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lot of work for...
 
ecoast said:
apply for variance?
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6BangBronk said:
I asked. They won't allow a variance on new property lines used to subdivide. Only variances permitted is the "unconditional" variances which is basically anything grandfathered on any of the old property lines.
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Yeah, there would be no case for a variance here. A lot of people misunderstand what a variance is actually for. Generally, they are used when there are specific land based hardships (ravines, streams, wetlands, etc.) that prevent you from following the zoning code. You couldn't apply for one to allow the third dwelling as it is because that would be a "use based" variance which is against state law (basically, a variance cannot allow a non-permitted use in the district). Truthfully, this seems like a lot of work for little gain. Is the property on septic or sewer?
 
So the property with the 45 degree uphill front yard slope wasn't enough of a pain, and you decided on a bigger challenge???

Would it be less work to just ratchet up and move the whole building?
What about the footing etc...
 
To gain would be a livable 1200 sf apartment / unit. Actually the complete shell is there, nothing else. Prefab trusses, a front door and windows. New roof. Subfloor. No insulation.

I'm die-ing to print it out for a picture but my boss has no life. I think he lives here at work??? And I have never successfully attached a pdf on here before? But it's attached anyways...

The pdf is of the survey of the restaurant I'm looking to buy. You can't have 3 units on one property in this county and there's no other way around it here unless I tear the apartment down and move it. But that wouldn't work either for it would loose it's grandfather'ed. The "cut in an angle" approach is the only way me and the surveyor can come up with. And the restaurant can be added onto big time on the back side to more than make up for it.

The house and I will call "apartment" are too close and unfix-able for the septic of the house is in the way. Nothing can fix that. But the restaurant and bar can be modified and there's plenty of room to add onto the back side.
My driveway is 18 degrees @RatLabGuy. And is fully permitted through TDOT now.:beer: Just not built yet. I'm still gathering thoughts on that challenge. And yes, you have discovered my life is FULL of challenges. :flipoff2: Keeps it interesting!

Bottom line, my Uncle had no idea what he was doing when he bought the house and added on all this bunched up together...:shaking: If only he'd moved the apartment back a tad, the restaraunt septic over or anything but it is what it is...
 

Attachments

  • 15202 Tucker Hollow Rd..pdf
    269.2 KB · Views: 271
Ahhh it worked!

Building setbacks are as follows:
Restaurant : 50' all sides
Septic: 10' all sides
Residence: 12' side / 30' front and rear

The deck on the rear is OK for decks can extend 10' into a setback.

The only way to accomplish this is if you offset the apartment face 62' and draw a straight line through the restaurant. And cut it off. I can attach another pdf showing what I mean if needed. But you can see the angle.
 
mommucked said:
Why not just get rid of one of the buildings ?
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I want to accomplish 3 livable units. Not 2 and a very large storage/shop. The entire basement is the shop. And 1200 sf is plenty for me. Plus it's 12' tall to possibly even a lift is in store. The 1200 sf upstairs would be a waste as storage. And a huge plus as livable.

Thinking future income...
 
Since I'm on a pdf roll. Here's an idea with some other sketching I've done laying out some parking. Very quick down and dirty to the point but the line through the building is shown and there's a big back deck that some of it would have to come off.
 

Attachments

  • 15202A (2004)-Model-000.pdf
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So the zoning allows 3 livable units on one property, and would allow rental property over the shop area? Have you checked rules regarding detached rentals and unrelated people living there? I'm no zoning expert and these may completely not apply, but those are all things I remember seeing when poking around looking at zoning in many NC areas.
 
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Fabrik8 said:
So the zoning allows 3 livable units on one property?
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No, only 2. Pretty common in all the zonings. It's written as a principle dwelling and a second dwelling. There's a couple minor stipulations on the second dwelling but nothing that affects most people.

Being the reason for my instinct to want to subdivide into 2 parcels to gain the privilege to septic and finish the 3'rd livable unit that is unfinished and un-septic'ed at this time.

All of this is being considered in my final price. I "gave" them a good faith for me to poke and prod the hell out of them. This survey was only more leverage. And they only need to know the bottom line that "the apartment is unlivable" until final sale. Then they will be standing along the taped off line of folks wondering what in the hell is this guy doing slicing an existing building at a crazy angle for?
 
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You can street view it along Tucker Hollow Road if you google "Big Orange Fall Branch TN". My 18-25 degree driveway / property is straight across from 340 Tucker Hollow. I've been allowing them to garden on it in exchange to keep my drive mowed / cleared. Half the left side of their garden is mine.
 
Blaze said:
Would it be possible to build an enclosed hallway between the two so you could make three structures into two structures? Just an idea.
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If you're trying to attach a garage to a house, then you can do that in many areas as long as the garage meets all of the zoning and placement criteria for attached garages. You can often do an open breezeway for example, doesn't have to be enclosed at all.
You could probably make an enclosed extension and connect them (I don't think a 40 foot hallway would probably be approved) if both buildings met all the placement criteria for the single, joined unit after being joined. I'm sure there are ways to make 2 small buildings into a single house on the same property if one of them already starts out as a house.

If the two structures were connected, there would still only be 2 livable units instead of 3, so that doesn't satisfy the plan.
 
Fabrik8 said:
If the two structures were connected, there would still only be 2 livable units instead of 3, so that doesn't satisfy the plan.
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I think that does satisfy that, right? You can't have more than two livable structures, so since there are two structures and each has livable area then it becomes two instead of three.
 
Blaze said:
I think that does satisfy that, right? You can't have more than two livable structures, so since there are two structures and each has livable area then it becomes two instead of three.
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Right, but he said he wants to accomplish 3 livable structures. He would have to build a third structure after subdividing if he joined the other two.

6BangBronk said:
I want to accomplish 3 livable units. Not 2 and a very large storage/shop...

...Thinking future income.
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This works all except the septic for the house is only sized for the house and the septic for the bar is only sized for the bar. I can do breezeways or connect all day, just can't add bedrooms or baths that way...
 
The misconception is that the garage basically IS a house above it. But it can't be. 2's company 3's a crowd sort of thing...

There's no other way around it besides chainsaws and axes and... plenty of free beer. LOL

Of course a designated camera man for you tube.
 
6BangBronk said:
This works all except the septic for the house is only sized for the house and the septic for the bar is only sized for the bar. I can do breezeways or connect all day, just can't add bedrooms or baths that way...
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That also means that you can't put an apartment over the shop though, without adding another septic system.
 
I can even go as far as getting "preliminary approval" from the soils scientist before going any farther but that would have to be done after the final sale to compensate in the price. Soils would be my very next step before the chainsaws and axes.
 
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