The North Carolina Gas Tax Will Increase 15% On New Year's Day! TAKE ACTION!

[BlueRidgeRunner]

This is not about paying more for gas, its about paying more for things that already dont work

This is exactly what I am saying!

Thanks Ratman!

 

[Rob]

I heard on the radio that the reason the train was not going to RDU is because they just built a huge parking deck, upgraded all their other parking, and would lose revenue if the train went there instead of people parking. Makes sense to me, typical of the local gunment attitude and business attitude.

 

[trailhugger]

I heard on the radio that the reason the train was not going to RDU is because they just built a huge parking deck, upgraded all their other parking, and would lose revenue if the train went there instead of people parking. Makes sense to me, typical of the local gunment attitude and business attitude.

Not quite... TTA discussion muddies the arguments about the gas tax, but since it is something I am paying close attention to and support, I want to clear some things up with fact...

There are no existing rail corridors that directly link the airport to Regional Rail Transit System. Planning, design and construction are more complex and EXPENSIVE, which is why there would be bus shuttles to the airport from the nearest station. TTA and RDU would re-evaluate the situation for future expansion with a spur line.

$800 million for a rail system is pretty damn cheap by comparison to others and part of that is the use of existing rail lines. TTA has received congressional funding for ten straight years and the rail project is over 20% complete. DC Metro is overcrowded and they need $796 million to add buses and lengthen the trains to fix it. They need another $500 million to maintain existing equipment because time and use take its toll, just like on the highways.

Thank goodness the TTA train is running out of federal funding. Its dying a slow death.

If you think about the fact that more commuters on a train means less wear and repair on the highways, you might reconsider your opinion.

 

[trailhugger]

Taxes suck. No questions about it. But, having nice things, like, oh, ROADS, well, they have to paid for somehow.

Exactly.

I agree we need to pay for roads with a tax but not one that grows by leaps and bounds.

We've also already covered the fact that this 'raise' is standard practice as part of a law... they re-evaluate wholesale prices every six months.

The taxes are not repairing the roads. The roads here are in terrible shape. I have been paying for them for years. Every-time I buy tags, or pay 3% of a vehicle price in taxes, or buy a tank of fuel.

You've also been driving on these roads for years. Wear and tear takes its toll and you probably would prefer they fix the roads so you can drive to your better-paying job at 70mph, right? NC has the second most roads of any state in the country, after Texas. That's a lot of damned road to be maintained and all the growth in Wake County (and elsewhere in the state) that supports your better-paying job means more and more people are driving on them, tearing them up.

I could give a rats ass about all the statistics you keep spouting out.

I guess his statistics don't really concern me, but it sure seems like you haven't presented any facts for your arguments other than you are mad as hell and not gonna take it any more.

 

[Rob]

If you think about the fact that more commuters on a train means less wear and repair on the highways, you might reconsider your opinion.

But will there be? Sure, the folks downtown will, but the suburbs won't. Because it will be inconvinent. And they are the ones making most of the traffic. I've failed to see a study yet that would prove that it would be used more then the roads, I have heard folks say, "Yeah, build it, so people will use it, and clear up the roads for me".

Look at the bussing system. I see empty buses all the time. Or buses with 1 or 2 folks in it. If it wasn't for being subsidized by our tax money, it would have failed long ago. The population density does not justify building a light rail. We're just too spread out.

Now if the state could get their fiscal house together, it would be a moot point as it wouldn't put a tax burden on the tax payers. I'm all for trying this, but they need to get their budget together first.

 

[Ratman]

Now if the state could get their fiscal house together, it would be a moot point as it wouldn't put a tax burden on the tax payers. I'm all for trying this, but they need to get their budget together first.

And this had been my biggest beef with this state for the last 20 years. Irresponscible fiscal habits..... with my money. Now they want more of my money to waste.


I like the idea of the light rail system, the lack of stops blows my mind. I would ride if it went to the places I needed to go such as NC State CVM, the airport, the area near where I work, etc....

 

[rbo1577186]

And this had been my biggest beef with this state for the last 20 years. Irresponscible fiscal habits..... with my money. Now they want more of my money to waste.

AMEN.

For the mostpart the public transportation system is a joke in NC.. Few people want to live in a urban environment. Most people want a little privacy.. A house with a yard. Therefore most live in the burbs or even further out. Therefore the Buses only cater to a select few people because they dont get into the burbs. There are a lot of buses with few occupied seats in Winston Salem. The city realizes this and is trying to improve the image of downtown so people will want to spend $ and live there. Lots of projects have been torn down and rebuilt with much pricier upscale condos. Maybe then the bus system will be OK.I work with several people from NJ who never owned a car until they relocated down here. They all say and it's true - "You can't do anything around here without a car" -
AMEN.

 

[Rich]

You can't even comapre DC Metro with RDU. Apples and oranges.

The rail isn't the greatest return for investment in Raleigh/Durham. No one has argued that one yet...

 

[shawn]

Oh BTW. I could give a rats ass about all the statistics you keep spouting out.

Because all the statistics I've been "spouting out" completely refute all of your baseless theories. You said prices on consumer goods keep going up, up, up. If that were true, then why did the Consumer Price Index DROP 0.6% last month? It's the biggest single-month drop in 56 years.

And before you go on about how the spiked in the months before that, look at the whole-year trend. Oh, what's that? It matches the year before it, and the year before that, and the year before... doh. So much for that idea.

Most people would support elimination of the fuel tax.

Most people would support the government not taxing them at all. It doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Now you complain that you shouldn't have to pay more, because you're not getting your money's worth out of the taxes you're paying. But off the top of my head, I can add up roughly $75 million in current and recently-completely highway projects that YOU PERSONALLY use every day, commuting back and forth to work. I'm not talking about stuff that was built 30 years ago. I-540, the I-40 widening project, the US1/US64 widening, and a half-dozen smaller projects all make it easier for YOU to get to work at 70mph. And they've all occurred in the last 5 years.

I know driving farther means more fuel, meaning more taxes paid.. it's part of my budget, but still works out in my favor when all things are factored in.

Do the math. I'll bet you a dollar that it doesn't.

Very conservatively speaking, I'm making about $30k PER YEAR by living and working inside the beltway. That's just counting things that are easily calculated, like fuel savings from commuting, time saved, and appreciation/value factors, all *very* conservatively rounded.

Just as an example, I was looking at a job in RTP about a year ago. It paid a bit more, but it was going to cost me *at least* $7500 per year to commute. That's a fair estimate, and it holds even if you factor in mileage costs for a 40mpg DD beater car.

 

[RatLabGuy]

You sir are a tax and spend liberal

First off I do not mean this at you directly, but a general point as long as jabs and elbows are going around...

I like how you throw this out like some kind of insult.
Seems as of late, folks leaning more to the conservative side use thsi as some kind of attack. WTF?

Directly from 1st 4 definitions via Google etc...
"Liberal"
- broad: showing or characterized by broad-mindedness; "a broad political stance"; "generous and broad sympathies"; "a liberal newspaper"; "tolerant of his opponent's opinions"
- having political or social views favoring reform and progress
- tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition
- a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

How exactly are ANY of these bad or negative traits?
OMG please don't tell anybody that I'm tolerant of other people's ideas! Or that I'm in favor of progress and reform, and am generally sympathetic to other people!
Maybe it would be better to be intolerant and want to keep things just the way they are. Because clearly the world is perfect now. Screw everybody else.

You sir are a tax and spend liberal

I just love this term! Would it be better to tax and not spend? Or how the hell do you propose to spend w/o taxing?

I stand by what I said earlier. Those of you who do not want to be taxed. please tell me EXACTLY where you plan to get the $$ from. "Spend less" or "be more efficient" is not a real solution. Lets hear soem real ideas, plans, something practical you could DO.
My point above is, the "boys" in Raleigh have a tough job. They have to get roads made AND balance a budget. None of them wants to raise taxes, thats pretty damn unpopular and puts their jobs at risk. However, via democracy, this was the best solution that was approved by the most people. If you hate it that much - get yerself a new representative, or do something about it.

 

[shawn]

I stand by what I said earlier. Those of you who do not want to be taxed. please tell me EXACTLY where you plan to get the $$ from.

Nah, it's just easier to call people names. Coming up with specific reasons and defending them with sensible explanations == thinking, and thinking just makes your head hurt.

 

[Rich]

Do the math. I'll bet you a dollar that it doesn't.

Just as an example, I was looking at a job in RTP about a year ago. It paid a bit more, but it was going to cost me *at least* $7500 per year to commute. That's a fair estimate, and it holds even if you factor in mileage costs for a 40mpg DD beater car.

Well, I pay on average (calculating fuel at $2.50 a gallon) $154 a month to commute. nay, $125, since we implemented a once a week work from home. since it's right about 1000 miles a month, it's pretty easy to add up wear items. tires, $13 a month. oil/filters, $5.50, so let's say $30 a month in wear items to be generous. That's $155 a month.

Oh, but my homeowners is cheaper than living near Durham by around $200 a year, or let's say $15 a month.. $140 a month. I've priced homes in the area, and the average mortgage for the size house I have, in a comparable neighborhood, comparable land, etc... is approx. $325 a month more. Oh, my car insurance is quite a bit less expensive as well, but I'm already in the black, no need to add up more.

And as Nicole points out, we really enjoy coming home to a quiet, SAFE neighborhood, where I will never have a house on 2 sides... That's worth alot.

 

[shawn]

And as Nicole points out, we really enjoy coming home to a quiet, SAFE neighborhood, where I will never have a house on 2 sides... That's worth alot.

Right. You've made a choice that you'd rather live where you do. And that's fine.

What I was trying to point out was that in making that choice, you prioritized living a certain way over having certain other potential sources of savings or income.

BTW: I haven't had my car stolen out of my driveway, yet.

 

[Rob]

But the majority of the folks working and living in Wake county have made the same choice, so the few that would use the light rail make up a minority, from what I'm reading anyways, I haven't seen any hard facts that would convince me other wise. I have seen hard facts of other citys that have light rail, and their going broke trying to subsidize it.

 

[Yay!Gurrr]

BTW: I haven't had my car stolen out of my driveway, yet.

Bahahah was reading the safe home comment and was like hey wait a minute....

 

[Ratman]

I stand by what I said earlier. Those of you who do not want to be taxed. please tell me EXACTLY where you plan to get the $$ from. "Spend less" or "be more efficient" is not a real solution. Lets hear soem real ideas, plans, something practical you could DO.
My point above is, the "boys" in Raleigh have a tough job. They have to get roads made AND balance a budget. None of them wants to raise taxes, thats pretty damn unpopular and puts their jobs at risk. However, via democracy, this was the best solution that was approved by the most people. If you hate it that much - get yerself a new representative, or do something about it.

Humm, lets see. Ok, a small list.


1) Sell off that white elephant of a loser named Global Transpark.
2) Go back to farming out the State Health Plan administrative stuff. The 3 million spent last year in salarys alone is double what the 5% annual increase was from Blue Cross when they had the admin. contract. AND THEY PAID MEDICAL BILLS! Yes, I'm a bit testy about spending 400 a month for medical insurance and every claim is denied. Out of pocket this year was 3500 bucks. They paid a whooping 73 bucks in claims. Whoooohooo, hows them for some benes guys. Reckon Easlys elbow surgury claim was denied?
3) Simple cost cutting measure. Cut the fawking trucks off when you are parked talking to road crews about what needs to be done. I cant count the number of times I've watched a state owned yellow truck sit at idle for over 20 min.
4) School busses, why stop at every driveway, why not every third driveway? When I was a kid in Charlotte my bus stop was 4 blocks away, I walked. Kids now walk out of their house in ont the bus. How much savings in fuel alone would this add up to?
5) General waste on DOT's part. For example, all the grading done between Capital and 401. That grading now must be redone and paid for again. Why? Same deal on the other end at 40. How many new roads in this state get graded for 2 and 3 times and at what cost?
6) Heres a simple one, fire trucks. Why fire 'em off stone cold and run them on the mat? Newer designed diesels are like gas mills in that they richen the mixture cold. Put them on low amp draw block heaters with driveaway plugs.
7) Take the House and Senate off the health plan they have from Blue Cross and stick them on the same plan the rest of state employees get. Spending well over 10 million a year paying for 100% care coverage exclusive to elected office is outragous.
8) Any state project that has to have "studys" done. Why cant the "studys" be done in house or from within the university system? Why do we pay millions a year for "studys" when some of the best minds in the world are within 50 miles of the capital dome. (NCSU, UNC, Duke yeah duke isn't a state school, whatever)

The list goes on and on. In a nut shell, quit pissing my money away and start being responscible. I know they dont spend their money that way. I think its past time for a more businesslike approach to goverment in this state.

 

[Andy J.]

$400,000 for starting a tea pot museum, More at 4, smart at 5 or whatever that guvment daycare is called, etc, etc, etc.

This is the kind of stuff that chaps my a$$. As most people have alluded to, most polititians are just in it for themselves and could give a rats a$$ about you and me. I don't mind so much paying the tax if I know it will be put to good use, but when I know it is going to pad some polititians wallet or get used in a multimillion dollar study to find out that fast food is bad for you; then I am hesitant to support that. What can the average person do to have an impact on these kind of desicions? It is debateable if petitions work, but everyone says "if you don't like it, get involved and change it". Maybe I don't have a clear understanding of politics on the state level, but don't you have to be involved in the political arena and hold a number of positions before you can have any "real" say in what goes on? I mean the average joe can't just show up, volunteer to be on a commitee at that level and make a decisive impact on an issue. For example, I don't think it is necessary for the education system to build multi-multi million dollar schools that have the latest in archetectural styling and ammenities. Yes I think it is important to have schools that are up-to-date in technology, etc. but could they design the schools a little more "plain" and save millions of dollars? Probably so. And don't get me started on illegal immigrants...

 

[rbo1577186]

Vote everyone out in office possibe, and reelect some noname who possible has fewer political ties.

 

[Rich]

2) Go back to farming out the State Health Plan administrative stuff. The 3 million spent last year in salarys alone is double what the 5% annual increase was from Blue Cross when they had the admin. contract. AND THEY PAID MEDICAL BILLS! Yes, I'm a bit testy about spending 400 a month for medical insurance and every claim is denied. Out of pocket this year was 3500 bucks. They paid a whooping 73 bucks in claims. Whoooohooo, hows them for some benes guys. Reckon Easlys elbow surgury claim was denied?

Blue Cross still does the state health plan - they're a pain in my ass.. State is still self-funded, but BCBS does the paperwork.

6) Heres a simple one, fire trucks. Why fire 'em off stone cold and run them on the mat? Newer designed diesels are like gas mills in that they richen the mixture cold. Put them on low amp draw block heaters with driveaway plugs.

Umm, every station I've ever been to has the trucks plugged in.

As for "richening the mixture cold", that is impossible. you add more fuel, RPM's go up.. There's really no "rich" or "lean" on a diesel.

 

[LARRY SMITH]

DOT WORKERS

There was a scare within the DOT Highway Maint department awhile back. Some one discovered a shovel would stand up by its self.

 

[rbo1577186]

OK everyone else is still bitching, and this is no big secret but...A good friend of mines husband works for the state. They contract out roadwork because the road contractors can do it cheaper!!!!!! WTF!!! I don't know all the details about how the contractors pay their employess/benefits/quality of work but the guys at the DOT aren't paid well, and their benefits were pricy. Roadwork is what they do... They should be embarrassed and try to figure out a way to compete with the other guys... Who has more expirience at road work than the DOT??? Someone else figured out how to do it cheaper????? This thread may never end............................ I heard on the news this morning that NC has the 2 highest gas prices in the US.....

 

[RatLabGuy]

My bet is, non-state contractors can do it cheaper b/c they're in turn direct "contracting" guys to to the work...said guys may or may not be legal residents, and hence may or may not have room to complain... don't have to have any benefits provided to them b/c they aren't "employees", and so on. I think we all know the folks I mean - hit Wal-Mart at 1 AM and you can find 'em...
State rules require any employee gets the benefits, overtime, annual COLA and so on - so anybody who can avoid these things (unscrupulous as it is!) hasa legup on the DOT.

 

[Ratman]

Blue Cross still does the state health plan - they're a pain in my ass.. State is still self-funded, but BCBS does the paperwork.



Umm, every station I've ever been to has the trucks plugged in.

As for "richening the mixture cold", that is impossible. you add more fuel, RPM's go up.. There's really no "rich" or "lean" on a diesel.

According to the report given to my wife, no, state health plan is self administered. Either way, they have wasting money down to a art form.

I've not been into a station lateley, maybe thats changed.

Check your later computer controlled diesels, they alter fuel mixture cold or hot depending on temp, boost, load and requested rpm. Late cats and detroits have the more complex systems.

 

[Ratman]

My bet is, non-state contractors can do it cheaper b/c they're in turn direct "contracting" guys to to the work...said guys may or may not be legal residents, and hence may or may not have room to complain... don't have to have any benefits provided to them b/c they aren't "employees", and so on. I think we all know the folks I mean - hit Wal-Mart at 1 AM and you can find 'em...
State rules require any employee gets the benefits, overtime, annual COLA and so on - so anybody who can avoid these things (unscrupulous as it is!) hasa legup on the DOT.

Bingo, contractors are cheaper but, when they fawk up (read i40 between ral and durham) we get to pay agin for the same work. Keeping the contractors is good business IMHO.